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Long Run Nutrition
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 2009-06-21 10:22 AM |
Regular 92  Vero Beach |  Subject: Long Run NutritionOn runs of 2 hours (12-13 miles) I'm having difficulty with my nutrition (I think). By the end of these runs I'm usually reduced to a snails pace and feel pretty crappy. I usually only take in 100cal per hour through GU's because of stomach issues and drink water as needed. Any suggestions for getting more calories in? I use Infinit on the bike and am thinking about ordering a no protein version but would prefer not to have 2 formulas (cost). |
| 2009-06-21 10:39 AM in reply to: #2231762 |
Master 1584  Fulton, MD | Subject: RE: Long Run Nutrition You really shouldn't need to take in that many calories while you run a 13 miler (note: if you done other vigorous workouts / bricks during the day this may change). You say that you drink "water as needed", how much is that? Is it hot/humid where you live? Have you figured out your sweat rate when you run? I know that I sweat MASSIVE amounts when I run, far more than when I swim or bike. On the last 12 mile run I did when it was hot, I drank 32oz of Gatorade and 40oz water, and still lost 4.5 lbs. I guess my point is that you may be getting dehydrated. |
| 2009-06-21 1:46 PM in reply to: #2231762 |
| Regular 92 Vero Beach | Subject: RE: Long Run Nutrition I live on th east coast of Florida where it is wicked humid. I haven't done a sweat test but I do sweat alot on the run. I only took in 40oz of water during the run so dehydration could definitely be the issue. Thanks for the input....Jason |
| 2009-06-21 2:16 PM in reply to: #2231970 |
Master 1584 Fulton, MD | Subject: RE: Long Run Nutrition jasonnance - 2009-06-21 2:46 PM I live on th east coast of Florida where it is wicked humid. I haven't done a sweat test but I do sweat alot on the run. I only took in 40oz of water during the run so dehydration could definitely be the issue. Thanks for the input....Jason Ha! I went to grad school at UF, you don't have to explain Florida weather to me! Drink a large Gatorade (any sports drink) on you next long run and see if it helps. You may need to experiment some. |
| 2009-06-21 5:25 PM in reply to: #2231762 |
Elite 2768  Raleigh | Subject: RE: Long Run Nutrition You should be taking in as close to 300 cals per hour as your body can stand. anything over a hour you should take in nutrition for cals as well as aiding in recovery. |
| 2009-06-21 8:08 PM in reply to: #2231762 |
Champion 7595 Columbia, South Carolina | Subject: RE: Long Run Nutrition I'm not particularly experienced or knowledgeable, but I'm going to tentatively disagree with the others. I'll bet it has little to do with calories. I glanced at your logs, and it looks like (correct me if I've missed something) you've done a 12-mile run only twice, and other than that, an 11-mile run, and a couple of 9-mile runs. Also, these distances represent over half of your weekly mileage. I don't think there's anything WRONG with that, but I think you are getting wiped out because you are still getting used to those distances and volume. They represent a significant increase from your more common 8 mile runs. Plus, they are coming at a time when the heat is ramping up, and this will naturally slow you down and make you feel more tired. Dehydration could be a contributing factor here, so you might try drinking more, but I'd be surprised if calories were the main contributor. You probably have around 1500 or more calories as stored glycogen. That, combined with the fact that you are not burning 100% glycogen while you are running, suggests that you've got enough to get you through. My suggestion: stick with that distance (not increasing) until it feels better. I bet that after a few more runs at that distance, in this heat, it will get easier. ETA: I'm not saying that you shouldn't try to take in more calories on the run. Whether you should probably depends on your overall goals and plan. I'm suggesting that lack of calories is not likely the main issue here. Edited by Experior 2009-06-21 8:11 PM |
| 2009-06-21 9:34 PM in reply to: #2232477 |
| Elite 3650 Laurium, MI | Subject: RE: Long Run Nutrition I see two points here: I agree with Experior. 2 hours of running shouldn't require a lot of extra nutrition and the issue is probably more training and pacing related. I also find that as I'm getting used to heat and humidity, that even at an easier pace, the end of long runs end up sucking a lot. 2nd point: Whether or not it is nutrition related, figuring out nutrition isn't a bad thing. You said you can't do gels? What kind of gels have you tried? What other forms of nutrition have you tried? I find that I can only tolerate gel so long before having to switch to either all liquid or liquid and solid (shot blocks, pretzels, peanut butter, ect). Took me years to figure that one out. |
| 2009-06-22 10:02 AM in reply to: #2232694 |
| Regular 92 Vero Beach | Subject: RE: Long Run Nutrition VO2Matt - 2009-06-21 10:34 PM I see two points here: I agree with Experior. 2 hours of running shouldn't require a lot of extra nutrition and the issue is probably more training and pacing related. I also find that as I'm getting used to heat and humidity, that even at an easier pace, the end of long runs end up sucking a lot. 2nd point: Whether or not it is nutrition related, figuring out nutrition isn't a bad thing. You said you can't do gels? What kind of gels have you tried? What other forms of nutrition have you tried? I find that I can only tolerate gel so long before having to switch to either all liquid or liquid and solid (shot blocks, pretzels, peanut butter, ect). Took me years to figure that one out. Thanks for the input Experior and VO2Matt. I do think that getting used to these distances has alot to do with my fatigue but how long should it take to adjust? Per the plan I have a 2:30 hr run this weekend and am already wondering how I will fair. I try and pace my longer runs at 10:00 min/mile but am thinking of slowing down some and will definitely take in more fluid. As for nutrition I have an iron stomach on the bike but the second I start to run its game on with my gut. I usually use GU and this weekend I tried Sports Beans, which didn't work either. I'm going to go all liquid for my next run and see how that works. I don't mind suffering during training as long as I know its related to improving endurance / speed or its a Mother Nature thing. I just want to make sure I'm not shooting myself in the foot with something I can control....Jason |
| 2009-06-22 10:07 AM in reply to: #2231762 |
| Pro 4054 yep, | Subject: RE: Long Run Nutrition you need to look into a drink with some electrolytes. Gu will give you that litle burst but nothing to last the whole run. |
| 2009-06-22 10:18 AM in reply to: #2233697 |
| Elite 3650 Laurium, MI | Subject: RE: Long Run Nutrition I wouldn't worry about electrolytes too much, especially just for 2:30, besides, most sports drinks have them in there anyway. One question, when do you eat last before the run and when do you start eating while running? Try holding off on food for 3 hours pre run, then don't start eating/drinking until you are 20-30 min in. See if that helps settle your stomach any. Another trick I learned with gel is to spend a few minutes working on it. I'll take in a little at a time over the course of a mile instead of downing it all at once; it seems to sit better in my stomach that way. Fluid is the same way. I'm better on almost constantly taking small sips then less frequent big gulps. |
| 2009-06-22 10:36 AM in reply to: #2231762 |
Coach 10487 Boston, MA | Subject: RE: Long Run Nutrition jasonnance - 2009-06-21 10:22 AM my guess is your lack of energy towards the end of your 2 hrs run is more due to poor pacing and lack of fitness.On runs of 2 hours (12-13 miles) I'm having difficulty with my nutrition (I think). By the end of these runs I'm usually reduced to a snails pace and feel pretty crappy. I usually only take in 100cal per hour through GU's because of stomach issues and drink water as needed. Any suggestions for getting more calories in? I use Infinit on the bike and am thinking about ordering a no protein version but would prefer not to have 2 formulas (cost). *IF* you do a good job pre fueling (eating 2-3 hrs before and drinking fluids) you should have enough fuel stored to propel you for 60-90 min and by adding some sports drink (drink to thirst) and maybe calories (a gel, bar, fruit, etc) you should have more than enough fuel to get you through your sessions. In general most athletes can't process more than 40-60 grams of carbs per hr and that depends on your pace, fitness level, weather temp, etc. Still you have to consider if your pre-fuel correctly the 1st hr or so of exercise you don't really need much intake to begin with. |
| 2009-06-22 10:42 AM in reply to: #2231762 |
Champion 10471 Dallas, TX | Subject: RE: Long Run Nutrition jasonnance - 2009-06-21 10:22 AM On runs of 2 hours (12-13 miles) I'm having difficulty with my nutrition (I think). By the end of these runs I'm usually reduced to a snails pace and feel pretty crappy. I usually only take in 100cal per hour through GU's because of stomach issues and drink water as needed. Any suggestions for getting more calories in? I use Infinit on the bike and am thinking about ordering a no protein version but would prefer not to have 2 formulas (cost). *Edit* Not sure I got much to add here. Edited by KSH 2009-06-22 10:42 AM |
| 2009-06-22 10:49 AM in reply to: #2233815 |
| Regular 92 Vero Beach | Subject: RE: Long Run Nutrition I train by HR Zones (don't want to open that can of worms) so I adjust my pace to be low zone 2 but can definitely slow down some. As far as eating I usually have a PB&J ( my staple pre long work out food) about 530am when I wake up and am running by 615-630am. Should I try and add a snack right before bed to "pre-fuel" the night before or is that so far out that it wouldn't make a difference? Any opinion on doing a sweat test in this situation to see if dehydration is the main factor here? |
| 2009-06-22 11:04 AM in reply to: #2233860 |
| Elite 3650 Laurium, MI | Subject: RE: Long Run Nutrition jasonnance - 2009-06-22 11:49 AM Should I try and add a snack right before bed to "pre-fuel" the night before or is that so far out that it wouldn't make a difference? > That is actually a really good idea. Topping off your glycogen stores before you go to bed means that they aren't as low when you wake up. Then all you have to do is eat just enough to make up for what you lost at night. I have done plenty of runs and races where I preload the night before and either skip breakfast or eat sparingly without having nutrition issues. My last marathon, the only thing I ate before mile 3 was a single banana 3 hours before gun time, and I had zero nutrition problems. YMMV though, I run with someone that eats two bowls of oatmeal with peanut butter 2 hours before running a low 1:20 half. |
| 2009-06-22 11:10 AM in reply to: #2233860 |
Coach 10487 Boston, MA | Subject: RE: Long Run Nutrition jasonnance - 2009-06-22 10:49 AM Assuming you have tested and define your HR levels correctly then it is ok you go by HR as long as you understand its limitations. Also depending you athletic background maybe low z2 is still too fast for you given your current fitness level, hence perhaps slowing down a bit (maybe high z1) might help, see how that goes. You have to be patient and build up your endurance little by little. The PB&J sounds plenty as pre-fuel, that and add some juice, water or sports drink to make sure you are hydrated and bring some sports drink and a gel or two for the run. Again, pacing correctly and improving your fitness will help; for a two hr run you really don't need much more fuel than that specially at the intensity you suggested you are running.I train by HR Zones (don't want to open that can of worms) so I adjust my pace to be low zone 2 but can definitely slow down some. As far as eating I usually have a PB&J ( my staple pre long work out food) about 530am when I wake up and am running by 615-630am. Should I try and add a snack right before bed to "pre-fuel" the night before or is that so far out that it wouldn't make a difference? Any opinion on doing a sweat test in this situation to see if dehydration is the main factor here? See if that helps, good luck! |
| 2009-06-23 9:18 AM in reply to: #2233815 |
| DC | Subject: RE: Long Run Nutrition "... *IF* you do a good job pre fueling (eating 2-3 hrs before and drinking fluids) you should have enough fuel stored to propel you for 60-90 min and by adding some sports drink... " Concurr. I run home from work--DC humidity, 13 miles, uphill--& usu. have a protien bar, whole wheat bagel w/PJ, & a cup of coffee around an hr. before my run. On the way, I'll sip on gatorade. I never have problems sleeping as I seem to wear off the caffine w/the run. |
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