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2008-09-10 11:43 PM

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Subject: Is this a bad idea?

    I've been working on my open water swimming.   I still don't consider my self to be completely at ease in water over my head.    For safety, I have considered  dragging along a flotation device just in case I get panicked or cramped.   I don't however want to get tangled up in something.    I was thinking about getting one of those mylar helium balloons (they are pretty tough) and attaching it to me via a 4-5 foot length of string and a safety pin on the back of my shorts.  I'm thinking this would be much less likely to get tangled as it would float above the water and out of the way.  If I needed some floatation, I could just roll over and pull it out of the sky.   The whole idea sounds really laughable I know...but I'm intriqued.  What are your thoughts?

 P.S.  I always swim with another person...but in my opinion they are often to far away to lend a hand fast enough if I were to ever get into trouble.



2008-09-10 11:54 PM
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Subject: RE: Is this a bad idea?
I'll let the experts chime in after me, but I think it's a good idea if you don't allow slack/etc. to get tangled up in. It would be mighty ironic if the device you brought along to save you ended up making you drown.

At the least, it could provide some extra resistance training to your swim.

Just make sure you learn to OWS without it before your first race. If that becomes your "safety blanket" and you enter a race without it, bad mental things could happen.
2008-09-11 12:06 AM
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Subject: RE: Is this a bad idea?

I think there are some personal safety devices on the market for open water swimming..... maybe someone more knowledgeable can post some info on this.

I agree with your thoughts about another person not being much help.  I'm thinking that a flailing drowing person would just drag an untrained rescuer down with them.
2008-09-11 12:26 AM
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Subject: RE: Is this a bad idea?

My advice would be if you are relying on a balloon as your safety device I don't think you are ready to be swimming in the open water.

I'd get some good pool training in,  get comfortable with the water in a safe environment,  then progressing to the open water,  along  a shore where you can stand up if you need to.  Get comfortable with that.  then move to deeper open water.

I'd steer well clear of your helium balloon idea.  I can see all sorts of problems related to that,  ie as you said getting tangled, if you are swimming your hips should be rolling,  if its stuck to your shorts it will be moving too.    

what happens if you do get into trouble,  struggling to pull a balloon down and hang onto that is not the safest idea IMHO,  it would probably take you the same amount of time for your swimming buddy to get to you as it would to pull down a balloon.

 

just my thoughts

2008-09-11 12:39 AM
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Subject: RE: Is this a bad idea?
they sell devices that attach to your ankle via a strap.
2008-09-11 1:12 AM
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Subject: RE: Is this a bad idea?
I have seen a personal floatation thing that is a belt that has a foot long tube on it and a rip cord. If you panic you just pull the handle and a co2(built in) inflates a floaty. Really nice, it was very small packaging and did not seem to hinder swimming much at all. I think it may have been made by USAT.


2008-09-11 2:48 AM
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Subject: RE: Is this a bad idea?

The product you're refering to is called Swim-Safe.   You can read about it on their website http://www.triaids.com/SwimSafe.htm.

 Todd

 

 

2008-09-11 2:48 AM
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Subject: RE: Is this a bad idea?
2008-09-11 6:44 AM
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Subject: RE: Is this a bad idea?

Not to hijack, but from personal experience, any question that I have uttered that began with, "I wonder if this is a bad idea" usually ended up being just that.

just one of the pearls of wisdom I passed on to my kids when they were very young

along with believing only half of what you see and none of what you hear. Especially on internet forums with advice coming from supposed experts total strangers.

As for the original question: the swimsafe and similar products are a great idea (I used a similar product when fishing with my kids when they were young) but bottom line is you need to get comfortable in open water/deep water swimming. Period. No added equipment will rid you of any fear, but only give you a potentially false sense of security; things happen and panic will not serve you well if you can't fend for yourself. Floatation devices as a backup: fine. As a first-line of defense? Not so good.

 



Edited by sty 2008-09-11 6:49 AM
2008-09-11 7:07 AM
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Subject: RE: Is this a bad idea?
I agree with the last post....what you hear on public forums may be advice....but not necessarily the best for you. That being said...

When I was training for Tri(now just getting back in running shape after a long break) I had a similar concern. I purchased a "swim can." It is a lifeguard device that is made of hard plastic and shaped kind of like a torpeto with handles (watch bay watch to see one.) My open water swim practice was in the ohio river which is known to have debris(tree limbs) and some undertows. My concern was that the rope may get caught on a large floating limb and pull me under. I also swam by myself, which wasn't the brightest idea in open water. To mitigate some of the risk I normally swam only 10' off the bank. Swimming parallel to shore would probably be good advice for anyone until they get comfortable with open water swimming.

About cramping........I have had a few in the water but that never concerned me because I am comfortable that I can float for long periods of time even without using my legs or my arms (not if I lost both.) I would practice treading water for long periods of time (even if it is in a pool) to get really comfortable in the water and to know that you can still tread water with cramps. I have practiced in the past with a 10lb-20lb weight in a pool for up to 15 minutes.

Edited by clightle 2008-09-11 7:10 AM
2008-09-11 7:44 AM
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Subject: RE: Is this a bad idea?

   I like the swim safe thing.  I'm going to look into that.  

Let me clarify that my discomfort with open water swimming lies not so much in my ability but more to do with the "what if" rare occasion that something goes wrong and I need some assistance.   Kind of like cars having air bags or jets having ejection seats.  You only need them when you NEED them and for no other purpose.

My discomfort with open water  comes more from the stories you hear that "even experienced swimmers can drown!" 

It would also be convenient to not have to practice OWS with a buddy.



2008-09-11 7:56 AM
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Subject: RE: Is this a bad idea?

I like the baloon idea. I thought about doing it myself, not to use as a pfd, but to let some of the rocket scientists on the seadoo know that I'm in the water. I swim within 50-100 yds of shore in a partitioned no-wake zone, but regulation and enforcement is a little on the lax side.

What I had in mind was attaching it to the back of my suit using one of those curly christmas ribbons. It would be out of reach of my hand/arm, so chances of it snagging or tangling on anything would be minimal. Plus, those baloons have a lot of lift to them...it might help keep my hips a little higher.

Seriously, I think the major hazard I face at my OWS lake is being run over by people not following the rules. I swim early mornings when traffic is at a minimum....and traffic is definately lighter in winter than summer, but I think this could be an idea to try. I few seconds extra warning that something's in the water could be what it takes to avoid a major mishap.

I completely agree with the concept that you shouldn't be out in open water if you need to rely on a baloon to keep you from drowning.

 

2008-09-11 8:54 AM
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Subject: RE: Is this a bad idea?

clightle - 2008-09-11 8:07 AM To mitigate some of the risk I normally swam only 10' off the bank. Swimming parallel to shore would probably be good advice for anyone until they get comfortable with open water swimming. .

This is what I did at first, and actually still do when Im alone.  At any time, I can stand up, but I still can make full arm strokes. Also, if you are wearing a wetsuit, that will also make you more buoyant, thus acting as your 'flotation device'. The video on this site for beginners talks about it - if you start to get worried, just roll over onto your back.

But really, if youre worried, dont go deep. Or have your buddy follow you in a boat.

You could also go this route instead of a balloon tied behind you -

Arm swim aids



Edited by ratherbesnowboarding 2008-09-11 8:59 AM
2008-09-11 9:01 AM
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Subject: RE: Is this a bad idea?

I bought a life guard can that I can pull when I did long IM swims.  It has a long cord maybe 8 feet and has a loop around the end you can put over one shoulder and goes across my chet. Stuff happens even if you can swim well. I have 5 kids and would rather be safe than stupid.

My friend made a thing out of noodle and she pulls it behind her. 

Swimming when it is 55 is tough at times. Even when I swim with others really what can they do for me or me for them if either of us have an issue?

2008-09-11 9:12 AM
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Subject: RE: Is this a bad idea?
Hmmm. Good question. Interesting one too.

I've done some writing on the topic of open water swimming and the (valid) concerns that surround it. Here's a link to the most recent thing I wrote if you care to read it:

http://www.bikesportmichigan.com/editorials/0000129.shtml

The ideal circumstance would be to have someone along in a small boat or kayak. I'm sure you've already thought of that though.

Failing that I wonder how much of a benefit a big ballon may actually be if there ever were a problem. I wonder if you may be better off towing a small inflatable raft. I know that sounds funny too but it actually doesn;t take much effort if it is a little one. That would be something you could actually hang on to in the water. Anotehr idea may be to tow a Coast Guard approved personal flotation device behind you. Make sure it has a strobe on it too.

The basis of your idea is very sound. We have a significant cadre of Coast Guard air crew in our store as customers and they have told us of many sad stories when rescues have quickly become recoveries because they couldn't find a swimmer and it got dark or a person simply got lost, got cold, got tired and wasn't found for days until they had met a tragic end.

One thng for sure, I am pleased to hear you are treating the open water environment with repsect and consideration and you are thinking in advance- that is your best safety tool- your brain. Also, swimming with another person in a must do: Two is one, one is none.
2008-09-11 10:41 AM
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Subject: RE: Is this a bad idea?

As a new open water swimmer myself I have addressed this problem with a significant burden on my wife and her use of a kayak   Being that she follows me in the lake in the kayak with a life jacket on board.  I have recently joined up with a group of swimmers who open water swim in a local lake/pond and there is a "lifeguard" who often naps on the dock dont know how much use he is?

Good luck with the swimming.



2008-09-12 3:01 AM
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Subject: RE: Is this a bad idea?
mrmcmasty - 2008-09-11 11:41 AM

there is a "lifeguard" who often naps on the dock dont know how much use he is?

Off-topic (I agree with other posts, lots of good ideas) - report this ^$%*wad. I would be incensed (but not necessarily surprised) to find out if my guards were sleeping, or even appeared to be sleeping. A supervisor cannot be around all the time, so you need to let them know. ASAP, or sooner. Seriously, the dude gets PAID to WATCH the water; he needs to do his job. Some people have to find out the hard way that guarding is not actually all about showing off for the ladies/gents.
2008-09-12 5:51 AM
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Tyler,
Subject: RE: Is this a bad idea?
I think you should learn to swim strongly/efficient in the pool (under the supervision of a life guard)  first before attempting OWS. You will make others nervous around you.
2008-09-17 6:53 AM
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Subject: RE: Is this a bad idea?


Here is the link at Keifer, but I am sure lots of other people make them (possibly cheaper)

http://www.kiefer.com/Kiefer/productr.asp?pf%5Fid=620043&gift=False...

This is a pic of the rescue can that I and someone else mentioned



Edited by clightle 2008-09-17 6:54 AM




(620043[1].jpg)



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2008-09-17 7:16 AM
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Subject: RE: Is this a bad idea?
I have actually made my own with a pool noodle. It looks exactly like the above mentioned product but instead of the orange bouy there is a pool noodle attached. It cost about $1.00 to make as I had the strap and rope around my house. My noodle is orange and very visible to boats. I do quite a bit of OWS and often go alone. The noodle is so light there is minimal drag.. I feel very safe and have never had to "use"it!

When I first started OWS my son used to go with me on his surf board. When I started going out on my own my son actuially made my "noodle" for me as he didnt like the idea of me being alone. Many of my tri friends now have noodles...when we swim together we are very visible
2008-09-17 8:41 AM
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Subject: RE: Is this a bad idea?
Maybe I missed it, but are you swimming OWS in a wetsuit?  If you dont have one, you would probably want to check that out before the flotation devices, especially if you are going to be doing a lot of tris.  From there, get comfy floating in that thing and once you are comfy being in the water, you are well on your way.


2008-09-17 10:12 AM
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Subject: RE: Is this a bad idea?

I bought a SwimSafe this year.   I use it with my wetsuit when I do OWS.

Even with my SwimSafe (or your 'balloon' or others 'noodles') we still need to be able to think about what we are doing.  If the issue was cramping we should be ok but if it's true 'panic' you may not be thinking clearly enough to pull the balloon or noodle to you.  And if something more serious happened (like a seizure, stroke  or heart attack) our devices may be useless. 

Swimming with someone else is a good idea (someone in a kayak or canoe is even better) as is swimming parellel to shore in shallower water. 

2008-09-17 2:45 PM
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Subject: RE: Is this a bad idea?

I have a question...if you are out in the lake / river / ocean and you or someone you are swimming with has a heart attack, major cramp, attacked by a shark, or whatever, what are you going to be able to do? If they are not breathing they / you will be dead by the time you get back to shore and get medical aid. And that is ONLY if you see them in time. When I'm swimming in a group, people are usually zig-zagging, slower, faster and no one is ever paying attention. I stopped swimming during a club swim at our lake to prove my point. 5 minutes after I stopped, no one had stopped to look for me. I was "dead" and this was just after we had the disscussion about how dangerous it was to swim alone. I swim alone....so in answer to your question, if you can swim well, swimming alone is not a bad idea (if no other option is available, at least let someone know when you should be home so they can find you if you miss dinner!)



Edited by hazmaster 2008-09-17 2:52 PM
2008-09-17 5:52 PM
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Subject: RE: Is this a bad idea?
David S. - 2008-09-11 7:44 AM

   I like the swim safe thing.  I'm going to look into that.  

Let me clarify that my discomfort with open water swimming lies not so much in my ability but more to do with the "what if" rare occasion that something goes wrong and I need some assistance.   Kind of like cars having air bags or jets having ejection seats.  You only need them when you NEED them and for no other purpose.

My discomfort with open water  comes more from the stories you hear that "even experienced swimmers can drown!" 

It would also be convenient to not have to practice OWS with a buddy.



The swim safe device is what you need. It's a flotation device that you can inflate, just in case. Much safer than a ballon.

A very good idea to use one if doing open water swimming alone.
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