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2012-11-12 4:00 PM

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2012-11-12 4:09 PM
in reply to: #4495389

Champion
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Subject: RE: Where Americans are (and the political parties aren't)
I thought this was going to be about the people who said they'd leave the country if Obama won. I want to know where they went!
2012-11-12 4:15 PM
in reply to: #4495389

Pro
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Subject: RE: Where Americans are (and the political parties aren't)
I agree with some of your statement. First line of your post is me for the most part, though I'm further left socially on most issues. I think the Republican party is their own worst enemy and they do need to make a lot of changes. Seems to me the Democrats could move further right and retain enough of an edge to keep the R's at bay for the next 2 cycles. But it's never about making them change is it? It's always the other guy that's backwards and needs to change to accomodate them.
2012-11-12 4:17 PM
in reply to: #4495389

Master
2277
2000100100252525
Lake Norman, NC
Subject: RE: Where Americans are (and the political parties aren't)

I think this is the more accurate depiction...

Young, Latino, African-American, Asian-American, and women are generally center-left.

The Republican Party with a far-right Tea Party platform appeals to older, white males.

Young, Latino, African-American, Asian-American, and women are GROWING in numbers.  Older, white males are SHRINKING in numbers.

The Republicans need to rethink what their "base" is and rewrite their platform to appeal to the growing demographic numbers or face extinction.  They will.  The loss is a wakeup call.  They will adjust, take their fiscally center-right philosophy and apply it to the appeal of the growing demographics.  They have to.

 

2012-11-12 4:32 PM
in reply to: #4495396

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Subject: RE: Where Americans are (and the political parties aren't)

mr2tony - 2012-11-12 3:09 PM I thought this was going to be about the people who said they'd leave the country if Obama won. I want to know where they went!

Tony, haven't you left the country?

2012-11-12 4:33 PM
in reply to: #4495389

Elite
6387
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Subject: RE: Where Americans are (and the political parties aren't)

I don't think it is nerarly that cut and dried. How do you "jettison the TEA party". It isn't a party to begin with. It was a movement that started for fiscal responsibility, and then it was assimilated by the GOP. The TEA party now is the far right social conservatives that were always there. ditch the name all you want, the people go no where.

And no... moving "closer to the center" does not get it. There are plenty of "conservatives" out there that believe in hard work and do not want a free ride from the government. There are plenty of people to attract by simply being reasonable and stop trying to exclude everyone and basic fear mongering.

There will never be a third party. Us against them is ingrained in every one. You could disband the parties today and they would reform in no time. I think this country being "conservative" will take much less than most think. No major over haul, just some tweaking.... because at the end of the day, people understand you can't have everything for free, nor do they want Mommy and Daddy telling them what they can and can't do for the rest of their lives.



2012-11-12 4:37 PM
in reply to: #4495389

Pro
4277
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Parker, CO
Subject: RE: Where Americans are (and the political parties aren't)
The R's just are not reaching women and minorities, as well as many middle aged white males.  IMO, Romney was a much better choice than what we have.  But he could not pull these votes.  I won't blame it all the the TEA Party...but I agree, something needs to change. 
2012-11-12 4:40 PM
in reply to: #4495420

Champion
34263
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Chicago
Subject: RE: Where Americans are (and the political parties aren't)
rayd - 2012-11-12 4:32 PM

mr2tony - 2012-11-12 3:09 PM I thought this was going to be about the people who said they'd leave the country if Obama won. I want to know where they went!

Tony, haven't you left the country?



I did. But moved back because England was too liberal.
2012-11-12 4:51 PM
in reply to: #4495435

Champion
6056
500010002525
Menomonee Falls, WI
Subject: RE: Where Americans are (and the political parties aren't)
Sigh.

Please stop misusing the term "Tea Party". The Tea Party has nothing to do with social issues. Nothing.

http://www.teaparty-platform.com/

2012-11-12 4:53 PM
in reply to: #4495423

Subject: ...
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2012-11-12 4:53 PM
in reply to: #4495389

Extreme Veteran
502
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Tucson
Subject: RE: Where Americans are (and the political parties aren't)
AcesFull - 2012-11-12 2:00 PM

So, to my Republican friends, jettison the TEA Party, move to the middle socially, retain your small government approach, and destroy the Dems in four years.  

OR

Keep hugging Michelle Bachman and Karl Rove, and maybe a third party will rise up and take the middle, because if they don't, four years from now is gonna be pretty ugly for you guys...

I'm a former Republican now Independent.  Although I'm quite conservative, Karl Rove / Bachman etc just give me the creeps.  Agree completely with what you posted, nice job.



2012-11-12 4:57 PM
in reply to: #4495428

Subject: ...
This user's post has been ignored.
2012-11-12 5:04 PM
in reply to: #4495457

Elite
6387
50001000100100100252525
Subject: RE: Where Americans are (and the political parties aren't)
AcesFull - 2012-11-12 3:53 PM
powerman - 2012-11-12 4:33 PM

I don't think it is nerarly that cut and dried. How do you "jettison the TEA party". It isn't a party to begin with. It was a movement that started for fiscal responsibility, and then it was assimilated by the GOP. The TEA party now is the far right social conservatives that were always there. ditch the name all you want, the people go no where.

 

You have it almost exactly backwards.  The GOP did not assimilate the TEA Party.  The TEA Party assimilated the GOP.

Wow... that is an interesting take on reality. Is the sky still blue there?

The TEA party had zero social issues when they formed. Now, well Bachman... I rest my case.

2012-11-12 5:16 PM
in reply to: #4495457

Champion
7347
5000200010010010025
SRQ, FL
Subject: RE: Where Americans are (and the political parties aren't)
AcesFull - 2012-11-12 5:53 PM
powerman - 2012-11-12 4:33 PM

I don't think it is nerarly that cut and dried. How do you "jettison the TEA party". It isn't a party to begin with. It was a movement that started for fiscal responsibility, and then it was assimilated by the GOP. The TEA party now is the far right social conservatives that were always there. ditch the name all you want, the people go no where.

You have it almost exactly backwards.  The GOP did not assimilate the TEA Party.  The TEA Party assimilated the GOP.

That is 100% incorrect.  In fact the original Tea party is upset that the GOP has commandeered their name.  The original Tea Party had only fiscal, not social platforms.

And you almost had me in with the both sides are our enemy talk (alright, Aces is meeting us in the middle!)  Then you bashed the right only. Sigh... you do see what you did there right?

2012-11-12 6:29 PM
in reply to: #4495423

Elite
4564
200020005002525
Boise
Subject: RE: Where Americans are (and the political parties aren't)
powerman - 2012-11-12 3:33 PM

I don't think it is nerarly that cut and dried. How do you "jettison the TEA party". It isn't a party to begin with. It was a movement that started for fiscal responsibility, and then it was assimilated by the GOP. The TEA party now is the far right social conservatives that were always there. ditch the name all you want, the people go no where.

And no... moving "closer to the center" does not get it. There are plenty of "conservatives" out there that believe in hard work and do not want a free ride from the government. There are plenty of people to attract by simply being reasonable and stop trying to exclude everyone and basic fear mongering.

There will never be a third party. Us against them is ingrained in every one. You could disband the parties today and they would reform in no time. I think this country being "conservative" will take much less than most think. No major over haul, just some tweaking.... because at the end of the day, people understand you can't have everything for free, nor do they want Mommy and Daddy telling them what they can and can't do for the rest of their lives.

This. R's and D's aren't stupid, they know the current set up allows them to retain complete control always. They will never allow a true 3rd party to arise. 

2012-11-12 7:13 PM
in reply to: #4495428

Elite
4547
2000200050025
Subject: RE: Where Americans are (and the political parties aren't)

rayd - 2012-11-12 5:37 PM The R's just are not reaching women and minorities, as well as many middle aged white males.  IMO, Romney was a much better choice than what we have.  But he could not pull these votes.  I won't blame it all the the TEA Party...but I agree, something needs to change. 

It's all ready in motion.  Just the other day, Sean Hannity pulled a 180 and now favors immigration reform.  I fully expect the GOP to reverse course on immigration.  Losing 71% of the Hispanic vote was a HUGE wake-up call.

The GOP's forbidden words for the 2014 and 2016 campaigns:  Rape.  Self-deportation.



2012-11-12 7:19 PM
in reply to: #4495632

Pro
9391
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Omaha, NE
Subject: RE: Where Americans are (and the political parties aren't)
ChineseDemocracy - 2012-11-12 7:13 PM

rayd - 2012-11-12 5:37 PM The R's just are not reaching women and minorities, as well as many middle aged white males.  IMO, Romney was a much better choice than what we have.  But he could not pull these votes.  I won't blame it all the the TEA Party...but I agree, something needs to change. 

It's all ready in motion.  Just the other day, Sean Hannity pulled a 180 and now favors immigration reform.  I fully expect the GOP to reverse course on immigration.  Losing 71% of the Hispanic vote was a HUGE wake-up call.

The GOP's forbidden words for the 2014 and 2016 campaigns:  Rape.  Self-deportation.

Immigration reform is just a red herring and not the issue.  I agree that it should be done on a bipartisan fashion, but the republican's could give 100% amnesty and it wouldn't buy them any votes.  Ronald Reagan gave 100% amnesty to 3 Million illegals and when Bush Senior ran he got 7% less votes from Hispanics than Reagan did prior to amnesty.  Amnesty is not the issue.  I personally think it's just that proportionately immigrants are more reliant on social services so that is why they gravitate to the democratic party. 

2012-11-12 7:24 PM
in reply to: #4495453

Master
2380
2000100100100252525
Beijing
Subject: RE: Where Americans are (and the political parties aren't)

scoobysdad - 2012-11-11 5:51 PM Sigh. Please stop misusing the term "Tea Party". The Tea Party has nothing to do with social issues. Nothing. http://www.teaparty-platform.com/

 

Yeah, that ship has sailed.  

2012-11-12 7:26 PM
in reply to: #4495389

Pro
6838
5000100050010010010025
Tejas
Subject: RE: Where Americans are (and the political parties aren't)
 The GOP needs to rethink their primary election schedule. They allow their candidate to be nominated in mostly blue states and it's over before the base gets a say in the choice. McCain and Romney weren't my first choice and I never got an opportunity to vote against either in a primary.
2012-11-12 7:28 PM
in reply to: #4495632

Pro
6838
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Tejas
Subject: RE: Where Americans are (and the political parties aren't)
ChineseDemocracy - 2012-11-12 7:13 PM

rayd - 2012-11-12 5:37 PM The R's just are not reaching women and minorities, as well as many middle aged white males.  IMO, Romney was a much better choice than what we have.  But he could not pull these votes.  I won't blame it all the the TEA Party...but I agree, something needs to change. 

It's all ready in motion.  Just the other day, Sean Hannity pulled a 180 and now favors immigration reform.  I fully expect the GOP to reverse course on immigration.  Losing 71% of the Hispanic vote was a HUGE wake-up call.

The GOP's forbidden words for the 2014 and 2016 campaigns:  Rape.  Self-deportation.

 Sean Hannity doesn't have a vote in congress.....Laughing

2012-11-12 7:34 PM
in reply to: #4495639

Elite
4547
2000200050025
Subject: RE: Where Americans are (and the political parties aren't)
tuwood - 2012-11-12 8:19 PM
ChineseDemocracy - 2012-11-12 7:13 PM

rayd - 2012-11-12 5:37 PM The R's just are not reaching women and minorities, as well as many middle aged white males.  IMO, Romney was a much better choice than what we have.  But he could not pull these votes.  I won't blame it all the the TEA Party...but I agree, something needs to change. 

It's all ready in motion.  Just the other day, Sean Hannity pulled a 180 and now favors immigration reform.  I fully expect the GOP to reverse course on immigration.  Losing 71% of the Hispanic vote was a HUGE wake-up call.

The GOP's forbidden words for the 2014 and 2016 campaigns:  Rape.  Self-deportation.

Immigration reform is just a red herring and not the issue.  I agree that it should be done on a bipartisan fashion, but the republican's could give 100% amnesty and it wouldn't buy them any votes.  Ronald Reagan gave 100% amnesty to 3 Million illegals and when Bush Senior ran he got 7% less votes from Hispanics than Reagan did prior to amnesty.  Amnesty is not the issue.  I personally think it's just that proportionately immigrants are more reliant on social services so that is why they gravitate to the democratic party. 

I don't think it's that simple Tony.  In 2004, George W Bush (who favored immigration reform much to the consternation of folks in his own party) only lost Hispanics 53-44.  He lost by 9 % points.  The numbers I've seen for 2012 had President Obama carry 71% of the Hispanic vote.  That is a gigantic change.  You don't think lobbing around the word "deportation" is political poison?  I really do.  It comes off as very insensitive.



2012-11-12 7:35 PM
in reply to: #4495402

Iron Donkey
38643
50005000500050005000500050002000100050010025
, Wisconsin
Subject: RE: Where Americans are (and the political parties aren't)
Bigfuzzydoug - 2012-11-12 4:17 PM

...

The Republican Party with a far-right Tea Party platform appeals to older, white males....

I must be WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY off the charts statistically then if you think I fit in THAT political area.

2012-11-12 7:39 PM
in reply to: #4495664

Pro
9391
500020002000100100100252525
Omaha, NE
Subject: RE: Where Americans are (and the political parties aren't)
ChineseDemocracy - 2012-11-12 7:34 PM
tuwood - 2012-11-12 8:19 PM
ChineseDemocracy - 2012-11-12 7:13 PM

rayd - 2012-11-12 5:37 PM The R's just are not reaching women and minorities, as well as many middle aged white males.  IMO, Romney was a much better choice than what we have.  But he could not pull these votes.  I won't blame it all the the TEA Party...but I agree, something needs to change. 

It's all ready in motion.  Just the other day, Sean Hannity pulled a 180 and now favors immigration reform.  I fully expect the GOP to reverse course on immigration.  Losing 71% of the Hispanic vote was a HUGE wake-up call.

The GOP's forbidden words for the 2014 and 2016 campaigns:  Rape.  Self-deportation.

Immigration reform is just a red herring and not the issue.  I agree that it should be done on a bipartisan fashion, but the republican's could give 100% amnesty and it wouldn't buy them any votes.  Ronald Reagan gave 100% amnesty to 3 Million illegals and when Bush Senior ran he got 7% less votes from Hispanics than Reagan did prior to amnesty.  Amnesty is not the issue.  I personally think it's just that proportionately immigrants are more reliant on social services so that is why they gravitate to the democratic party. 

I don't think it's that simple Tony.  In 2004, George W Bush (who favored immigration reform much to the consternation of folks in his own party) only lost Hispanics 53-44.  He lost by 9 % points.  The numbers I've seen for 2012 had President Obama carry 71% of the Hispanic vote.  That is a gigantic change.  You don't think lobbing around the word "deportation" is political poison?  I really do.  It comes off as very insensitive.

I do agree that Romney's description of "self deportation" was not a winner by any means. 

2012-11-12 8:00 PM
in reply to: #4495671

Elite
4547
2000200050025
Subject: RE: Where Americans are (and the political parties aren't)
tuwood - 2012-11-12 8:39 PM
ChineseDemocracy - 2012-11-12 7:34 PM
tuwood - 2012-11-12 8:19 PM
ChineseDemocracy - 2012-11-12 7:13 PM

rayd - 2012-11-12 5:37 PM The R's just are not reaching women and minorities, as well as many middle aged white males.  IMO, Romney was a much better choice than what we have.  But he could not pull these votes.  I won't blame it all the the TEA Party...but I agree, something needs to change. 

It's all ready in motion.  Just the other day, Sean Hannity pulled a 180 and now favors immigration reform.  I fully expect the GOP to reverse course on immigration.  Losing 71% of the Hispanic vote was a HUGE wake-up call.

The GOP's forbidden words for the 2014 and 2016 campaigns:  Rape.  Self-deportation.

Immigration reform is just a red herring and not the issue.  I agree that it should be done on a bipartisan fashion, but the republican's could give 100% amnesty and it wouldn't buy them any votes.  Ronald Reagan gave 100% amnesty to 3 Million illegals and when Bush Senior ran he got 7% less votes from Hispanics than Reagan did prior to amnesty.  Amnesty is not the issue.  I personally think it's just that proportionately immigrants are more reliant on social services so that is why they gravitate to the democratic party. 

I don't think it's that simple Tony.  In 2004, George W Bush (who favored immigration reform much to the consternation of folks in his own party) only lost Hispanics 53-44.  He lost by 9 % points.  The numbers I've seen for 2012 had President Obama carry 71% of the Hispanic vote.  That is a gigantic change.  You don't think lobbing around the word "deportation" is political poison?  I really do.  It comes off as very insensitive.

I do agree that Romney's description of "self deportation" was not a winner by any means. 

Tony, how would you explain George W. Bush's relative success with Hispanics in '04?  Do you think his plans for immigration reform had any affect on the Hispanic electorate?

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