Why do fit racers have heart attacks and what can be done to prevent it?
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General Discussion | Triathlon Talk » Why do fit racers have heart attacks and what can be done to prevent it? | Rss Feed ![]() |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Sunday's Nockamixon Steelman race was spectacular. The weather held out and our three family members had a great race day. Sadly, Dr. Michael Conti, 57, a man who friends said "lived to run"died from an apparent heart attack later that morning after the race. I am very sorry for his family and friends. There are a couple of these tragedies locally every year and I'm just wondering why this happens to seemingly healthy people. Do they just have a heart condition that they are un-aware of? It seems like the medical community can't really diagnose a heart condition unless your heart exhibits the problem while you are hooked up to a monitor. What can concerned athletes do to be checked out? |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() You know how most exercise programs say you should go to a doctor before starting them? I wonder how many people really do that? I know I'm quasi guilty of that. I mean I started doing sports (track and field) when I was 7 and really never stopped doing sports or exercise of some kind since. So it's just something that is in my medical files. But how many people pick up a sport one day and never get checked out? Then the other side - just because you are "seemingly healthy" because you run doesn't mean that you can eat crap. Not saying that is the Dr. mentioned by the OP, but I am ALWAYS getting on my sister about this. She eats like trash b/c she's trying to keep her weight on when training for cross country/track seasons for college. That can't be good either. Gotta get the whole picture right. But with all that said, bad stuff happens. Go see your doc regularly and mention that you do endurance sports and talk to them. Recognize the vices (drinking? smoking?) and that eating junk before the tri life has an impact. And don't be afraid of the things you can't control. |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I'd second the whole "consult a doctor....etc" i know I did last year and actually had a funky beat or something that required extra tests.....end result was that I was cleared but i figured it was the least i could do for my kids... |
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Expert![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Very sad. To answer your question, there is very little that can be done. Deanna will probably chime in on this (she's like the Harry Potter of the tri community, the girl that lived), but very healthy people, with no outward signs, have sudden cardiac arrests. There is talk about getting heart screening and other tests, but there's no indication that these will catch anything in an otherwise healthy person. I asked this same question years ago, after my brother-in-law died after a 10k race, just a few months after a physical and heart screening. |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() kimmitri408 - 2008-08-12 2:24 PM You know how most exercise programs say you should go to a doctor before starting them? I wonder how many people really do that? I know I'm quasi guilty of that. I mean I started doing sports (track and field) when I was 7 and really never stopped doing sports or exercise of some kind since. So it's just something that is in my medical files. But how many people pick up a sport one day and never get checked out? Then the other side - just because you are "seemingly healthy" because you run doesn't mean that you can eat crap. Not saying that is the Dr. mentioned by the OP, but I am ALWAYS getting on my sister about this. She eats like trash b/c she's trying to keep her weight on when training for cross country/track seasons for college. That can't be good either. Gotta get the whole picture right. But with all that said, bad stuff happens. Go see your doc regularly and mention that you do endurance sports and talk to them. Recognize the vices (drinking? smoking?) and that eating junk before the tri life has an impact. And don't be afraid of the things you can't control. Not to hijack, but you see the stuff Phelps stuff down his yaw? Dude eats all kinds o'crap. |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Unfortunately genetics have as much or more to do with heart attacks than exercise, fitness or lifestyle. Running guru Jim Fixx was a prime example. Always good to know your family history and then use that knowledge to plot a strategy with your doctor to reduce or minimize your risk factors. Mark
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() RedCorvette - 2008-08-12 2:35 PM Unfortunately genetics have as much or more to do with heart attacks than exercise, fitness or lifestyle. Running guru Jim Fixx was a prime example. Always good to know your family history and then use that knowledge to plot a strategy with your doctor to reduce or minimize your risk factors. Mark
Good post. |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Years ago, before I exercised seriously or lost about 20lbs, I had a slightly high cholesterol reading. I'm thinking maybe I should go back and have it checked again. Don't assume because I lost weight and exercise more that it has gone down... since prolonged high cholesterol and/or high blood pressure contribute to this scenario...and run in my family. |
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Regular ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I asked my doctor on my last very recent visit if there was a test or scan that could tell me if I had any blockage due to my (family based) high cholesterol. She told me that there was no 100% way to know no matter how many tests they do (none covered by my insurance as well). Exercise, see your Dr at least once a year and enjoy life while you can. |
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Coach ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() in my non medical expert opinion I would say: sh*t happens |
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Regular ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Actually there is a test, called a nuclear stress test that will give a good indication. They take pictures of the blood flowing though the heart at rest, have you exercise while taking EKGs and BP readings, then have the machine take pictures again. It won't give the exact location of any blockages, but it will give an indication if further study is needed. The next step is a angiogram and possible angioplasty. Been there, got the tshirt. I have one done every year just to keep on top of things. |
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Veteran![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() amiine - 2008-08-12 6:12 PM in my non medical expert opinion I would say: sh*t happens x 2 for sudden cardiac arrest sudden cardiac arrest: sh*t happens. heart stops due to electrical malfunction. essentially is not preventable. Even extensive screening may not identify a person at risk of sudden cardiac arrest...but you wouldn't get extensive screening because you probably wouldn't know you were at risk for sudden cardiac arrest. heart attack: heart stops due to "chunk of gunk". preventable with healthy diet and exercise. For older individuals, definately go to the doc to know what your cholesterol / blood pressure are looking like and the doc can tell you what level of exercise is healthy for you. Edited by dlb3830 2008-08-12 6:27 PM |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Cardiac arrests not only can be caused by clots but also by severe electrolyte imbalances. Sodium, potassium and calcium play integral parts in the electrical function of your heart. Along with extended exercise, certain prescription meds can effect electrolyte levels also. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I guess I'll chime in: Would these people have died a decade or more earlier if they hadn't been fit? |
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![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I'll also mention that many of the cardiac sudden death events are due to an underlying cardiac hypertrophy. In lay terms, the walls of the heart are much thicker than normal, this makes the main chamber of the heart much smaller than normal, then when a high degree of exertion takes place the heart rate increases and one of the valves gets in the way of blood leaving the heart. Trained athletes are at an increased risk for this, as they train themselves mentally to "keep pushing" through the warning signs. The only reason I mention this is that a simple echocardiogram could probably pick this up. And if it is really a "heart attack" as most people define it, a stress test should pick it up. Lastly, there's more than just an angiogram to find arterial calcifications. Ask around if your doc says different. My overall point, don't give up on going to see your doc if you're worried about heart problems. |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Just because you are thin doesn't mean you are truly healthy.
Usually in a lot of those cases it's genetic high cholesterol or something of that nature. Plaque in the arteries is NO GOOD. AND, just because we run doesn't mean we should eat hamburgers - not saying this was done, but it just adds back into that whole plaque theory. Especially if you are predisposed... |
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Elite![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() There is a group of scientists that have put out the controversial notion that what we currently believe to be a high risk factor for heart disease, i.e., high cholesterol, may not be as important as we thought. Rather, high triglycerides may be more important. The triglyceride idea has slowly made its way into mainstream medicine. Triglyceride levels are determined in large part by carbohydrate consumption. So, an endurance athlete who consumes lots of carbs can be putting himself/herself at risk. Then again, I'm biased because I have high cholesterol but low triglycerides. |
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Regular ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() photonic - 2008-08-12 7:22 PM Actually there is a test, called a nuclear stress test that will give a good indication. They take pictures of the blood flowing though the heart at rest, have you exercise while taking EKGs and BP readings, then have the machine take pictures again. It won't give the exact location of any blockages, but it will give an indication if further study is needed. The next step is a angiogram and possible angioplasty. Been there, got the tshirt. I have one done every year just to keep on top of things. I'll have to mention that on my next visit. Thanks for the tip. |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Personally, I think the real answer is people die of this every day. Its just that the ones running a marathon, competiting in a Triathlon, or a hockey game make the news. "guy dies of heart attack sitting on the couch watching football", doesn't make good headlines. The reality is, sooner or later, a lot of us are going to die of heart problems. (my genetics suck when it comes to heart problems), but I believe I'm prolonging my death with my active lifestyle, and when I do go, I just assume it be doing something I enjoy than just sitting on the couch, worrying that if I exert myself my heart is going to stop. Its not that the exercies killed the person. Its the guys heart that gave out. It was going to happen sooner or later anyway. Perhaps the physical exertion brought it on a few days or weeks earlier than if he was laying in bed in fear of his heart stopping. But if he lived his life like that all along, he probably would have died years ago. Its sad, and my condolence go out to his family, but I bet if he knew how his life would end, he would have done it anyway. And to me, that's the key to a happy life, and the way I hope to go. FishHog |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() This is all really interesting. A "nuclear stress test" sounds expesive - like your insurance company might crunch some numbers and decide it's cheaper to just let you have a heart attack... ;-) But I might check to see if they'll cover one someday. Stroke/heart disease runs in my family. But NONE of them were athletes. (Hence the reason I'm trying to spread the athlete bug to the younger members of my family.) Perhaps a little "keep this on your radar and check things out with your doctor" while also doing your best to be prepared/at peace with the fact that "s++t happens" out of the blue sometimes is in order. |
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![]() ![]() | ![]() Someone, with lots of triathlons under his belt. who fell out last year in a race I participated in had cardiac arrest (and fortunately did not die) due a small hole in his heart that is something not usually checked for in normal checkups. Undetected heart murmurs can have similar consequences in athletes. Get an EKG/echocardiographic stress test can detect same. The percentage of people with this is minute, but is usually caught in that minute percentage when it's too late. |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]()
Everybody dies from something. Sad, for certain, but true. Fit & Healthy does not equal immortal All sorts of factors can lead to/cause a cardiac problem, your risk for heart problems may be higher/lower if you engage in particular behaviours, but risk is not a guarantee.
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Regular ![]() ![]() | ![]() While it is true that sudden cardiac death sometimes occurs unexpectedly in apparently healthy athletes, and there is not any test which is 100% accurate for identifying people at risk, there are ways to help reduce the risk. In athletes over age 40, atherosclerosis is usually a factor in sudden cardiac death, and screening tests can help identify people who are at higher risk. There were guidelines published in 2001 ( http://www.circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/103/2/327) specifically for master athletes. The main recommendations were: To perform a complete history and physical with emphasis on family history of heart problems, personal history of symptoms related to heart disease, and physical examination with emphasis on underlying heart disease Perform an exercise stress test on patients at higher risk based on traditional risk profile analysis. This risk profile would include men more than 40 to 45 years old or women more than 50 to 55 years old (or postmenopausal) with 1 or more independent coronary risk factors. These include the following: hypercholesterolemia or dyslipidemia (total cholesterol >200 mg/dL; elevated low-density lipoprotein [LDL] cholesterol [>130 mg/dL]; low high-density lipoprotein [HDL] cholesterol [<35 mg/dL for men; <45 mg/dL for women]); systemic hypertension (systolic blood pressure >140 mm Hg or diastolic pressure >90 mm Hg); current or recent cigarette smoking; diabetes mellitus (fasting plasma glucose 126 mg/dL or treatment with insulin or oral hypoglycemics); or history of myocardial infarction or sudden cardiac death in a first-degree relative <60 years old. In addition, an exercise test is recommended for those masters athletes of any age with symptoms suggestive of underlying coronary disease and for those 65 years old even in the absence of risk factors and symptoms. Following these guidelines would certainly not prevent all sudden cardiac death, but would have a significant impact. |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Agree with 100% of the above statements...all are essentially true. When it's a complete shock...ie healthy, fit, good diet....then dead.... yep, sh*t happens. Family history is huge. (If I knew how to enlarge the font and make "huge" in red letters, I would) Thus the family of obese, bacon eating, Breyers pounding, brothers who live to 80 and take no heart meds....and the thin, health conscious family where all siblings start their heart meds in their early 30's and are dead at 50. ( I see patients regularly who look good, exercise, and have a list of meds a page long...and also the slugs who eat anything and everything who come in on one BP med and their pressure is 122/78...it makes no sense other than "it's genetics") In endurance training that all of us here do, the prev. mentioned electrolyte imbalances can def. play a role. As far as testing...as mentioned, a stress test shows current problems or lack there of, with perfusion but cannot predict for atherosclerotic dz that is yet to compromise blood flow. There is the new CT scan of the heart vasculature that is the best yet to show vessel disease. (I think it is a small minority of insurances that cover this, but if you have around 1500 bucks you can have it done). Bottom line, it happens. Impossible to predict when. Without a doubt, running has been shown to be beneficial and not detrimental (nice study done proving that running a minimum of 20 min 3x/week increases longevity in men, and it doesn't matter at what age they took up running)....... I eat ok (only "ok" b/c I love the margarita's, chocolate, and home made choc chip cookie dough)...I exercise 5 or 6 days a week...Not much else I can do except hope that my negative family history for heart disease stays that way....If it happens, I hope it happens to me when racing....... at age 89 ![]() |
General Discussion | Triathlon Talk » Why do fit racers have heart attacks and what can be done to prevent it? | Rss Feed ![]() |
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