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Would you allow..question for the group
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 2005-12-20 1:25 PM |
Elite  2768     Raleigh |  Subject: Would you allow..question for the groupWhile we are on the topic of government and wire tapping. I am curious as to what some of you more liberal thinkers would do with this questions. Would have done a poll but I do not know how to... America has caught a terrorist (non american, I think he is canadian...lol) and has found information that he is in with a plot to detonate a nuke in New Youk City. The bomb is already in place but the day is not known when this will take place. Would you allow torture of this person to get information from him at to the where abouts of his partners and where the bomb is or do you think he deserves the same rights as americans and protected; should not be tortured. Or do you think in certain instances (for the greater good). We should be aloowed to torture (anything goes) to get information from persons wanting to harm the U.S.?? |
| 2005-12-20 1:26 PM in reply to: #309030 |
Giver 18427  | Subject: RE: Would you allow..question for the group Chris...have you been watching "24" reruns?
golfinggods - 2005-12-20 2:25 PM While we are on the topic of government and wire tapping. I am curious as to what some of you more liberal thinkers would do with this questions. Would have done a poll but I do not know how to... America has caught a terrorist (non american, I think he is canadian...lol) and has found information that he is in with a plot to detonate a nuke in New Youk City. The bomb is already in place but the day is not known when this will take place. Would you allow torture of this person to get information from him at to the where abouts of his partners and where the bomb is or do you think he deserves the same rights as americans and protected; should not be tortured. Or do you think in certain instances (for the greater good). We should be aloowed to torture (anything goes) to get information from persons wanting to harm the U.S.?? |
| 2005-12-20 1:28 PM in reply to: #309030 |
Queen BTich 12411 , | Subject: RE: Would you allow..question for the group |
| 2005-12-20 1:28 PM in reply to: #309033 |
Giver 18427 | Subject: RE: Would you allow..question for the group Heh...
TriComet - 2005-12-20 2:28 PM Thats what I was going to say! Where's Jack Bauer?! Get the info out of him!! |
| 2005-12-20 1:30 PM in reply to: #309030 |
Buttercup 14334 | Subject: RE: Would you allow..question for the group Big questions, Chris.
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| 2005-12-20 1:31 PM in reply to: #309031 |
Elite 2768 Raleigh | Subject: RE: Would you allow..question for the group Actually I have never really watched the show. I always forget and seems stupid to come in at hour 12 to watch it. I am all for our rights (all of them i.e. guns, freedom of speech, press, and that pesky one where we allowed women to vote)...oh did he just say that???? I crack myself up. But I just wonder what some people will allow and what some people will not allow. Seems some people cannot stomach things unless it effects them. I have heard the questions thrown around on talk radio, so I was curious run4yrlif - 2005-12-20 1:26 PM Chris...have you been watching "24" reruns?
golfinggods - 2005-12-20 2:25 PM While we are on the topic of government and wire tapping. I am curious as to what some of you more liberal thinkers would do with this questions. Would have done a poll but I do not know how to... America has caught a terrorist (non american, I think he is canadian...lol) and has found information that he is in with a plot to detonate a nuke in New Youk City. The bomb is already in place but the day is not known when this will take place. Would you allow torture of this person to get information from him at to the where abouts of his partners and where the bomb is or do you think he deserves the same rights as americans and protected; should not be tortured. Or do you think in certain instances (for the greater good). We should be aloowed to torture (anything goes) to get information from persons wanting to harm the U.S.?? |
| 2005-12-20 1:34 PM in reply to: #309041 |
Giver 18427 | Subject: RE: Would you allow..question for the group Your senario is exactly the plot of the second(?) season of 24. They tortured the guy in question, but he either died (or killed himself) before revealing anything. If I remember correctly, they figuredf out where the bomb was through surveilance (legal or course
golfinggods - 2005-12-20 2:31 PM Actually I have never really watched the show. I always forget and seems stupid to come in at hour 12 to watch it. |
| 2005-12-20 1:39 PM in reply to: #309030 |
Queen BTich 12411 , | Subject: RE: Would you allow..question for the group I love 24. LOVE LOVE LOVE IT....can't wait for the new season. Anyway, I still say get the info out of him. |
| 2005-12-20 1:54 PM in reply to: #309030 |
| Pro 4040 | Subject: RE: Would you allow..question for the group Hypothetical questions like that are always difficult, but you'd want to do what works, which is not necessarily to hook a car battery up to a guy's testicles. The essential problem here seems to be a question of trust. As a general statement, conservatives on this site appear to trust GWB enough to let him do what he says he needs to do. Liberals do not. Having said that, this does not appear to be a question of trusting your president, because the same people who would give what seems to be carte blanche* to GWB think of Clinton as perhaps the most evil man to have ever led the US. Indeed, he is the very standard against which GWB is measured. I would be interested to see what kind of discussions would take place if the president were a democrat. Anyhow, just a Canadian's perspective. * How ironic is it for a Canadian to use a French phrase when talking about American politics? |
| 2005-12-20 1:58 PM in reply to: #309030 |
Master 1468 Tampa, Fl | Subject: RE: Would you allow..question for the group I wasn't aware "Hypothetical" is a french phrase. |
| 2005-12-20 2:02 PM in reply to: #309089 |
Elite 2768 Raleigh | Subject: RE: Would you allow..question for the group Oh gosh that cracks me up... rbschlesinger - 2005-12-20 1:58 PM I wasn't aware "Hypothetical" is a french phrase. |
| 2005-12-20 2:06 PM in reply to: #309089 |
| Pro 4040 | Subject: RE: Would you allow..question for the group rbschlesinger - 2005-12-20 2:58 PM I wasn't aware "Hypothetical" is a french phrase. You weren't? Oh yah, my using it is like rain on your wedding day. |
| 2005-12-20 2:06 PM in reply to: #309082 |
Buttercup 14334 | Subject: RE: Would you allow..question for the group Opus - 2005-12-20 1:54 PM The essential problem here seems to be a question of trust. As a general statement, conservatives on this site appear to trust GWB enough to let him do what he says he needs to do. Liberals do not. Having said that, this does not appear to be a question of trusting your president... Our system works because we don't really have to trust any POTUS to do right by the populace. Our civic faith is placed in our Constitution and the laws which withstand Constitutional scrutiny, not in the fallible man who sits in the Oval office at any given time. This is why there is a furor over whether our current Fallible Man has arrogated powers which the Constitution has not bestowed upon him. Once Fallible Man gets grab-happy with unConstitutional powers, he goes from sitting in the Oval office to sitting on a throne. Edited by Renee 2005-12-20 2:12 PM |
| 2005-12-20 2:09 PM in reply to: #309030 |
| Philadelphia, south of New York and north of DC | Subject: RE: Would you allow..question for the group golfinggods - 2005-12-20 2:25 PM While we are on the topic of government and wire tapping. I am curious as to what some of you more liberal thinkers would do with this questions... This is a question that I am wrestling with. I'm not even close to an answer yet, so everyone's responses will be very interesting to read. (and yes, on most days I think of myself as a liberal, a good 'ol classical liberal, not one of these new kinds...  )Edited by dontracy 2005-12-20 2:09 PM |
| 2005-12-20 2:10 PM in reply to: #309103 |
| Pro 4040 | Subject: RE: Would you allow..question for the group Renee - 2005-12-20 3:06 PM p>Our system works because we don't really to trust any POTUS to do right by the populace. Our civic faith is placed in our Constitution and the laws which withstand Constitutional scrutiny, not in the fallible man who sits in the Oval office at any given time. This is why there is a furor over whether our current Fallible Man has arrogated powers which the Constitution has not bestowed upon him. Once Fallible Man get grab-happy with unConstitutional powers, he goes from sitting in the Oval office to sitting on a throne. See, now if you had the Canadian system, you wouldn't have any disagreements, because nobody trusts the government, no matter what party they belong to. But I understand what you are saying and I agree, it is not only your right, but your duty to question the decisions made and the actions taken by your government. |
| 2005-12-20 2:13 PM in reply to: #309109 |
Buttercup 14334 | Subject: RE: Would you allow..question for the group Opus - 2005-12-20 2:10 PM See, now if you had the Canadian system, you wouldn't have any disagreements, because nobody trusts the government, no matter what party they belong to. I should have qualified my statement to say Good Americans place their faith in the Constitution, not in parties or Fallible Men. There are plenty of folks (and politicians) in the US who are more loyal to party than they are to Constitution. |
| 2005-12-20 2:25 PM in reply to: #309101 |
Champion 5183 Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Would you allow..question for the group Opus - 2005-12-20 2:06 PM rbschlesinger - 2005-12-20 2:58 PM I wasn't aware "Hypothetical" is a french phrase. You weren't? Oh yah, my using it is like rain on your wedding day. HILARIOUS! The other canadian who likes to rain on wedding days is not nearly the verbivore that you are.... |
| 2005-12-20 4:36 PM in reply to: #309030 |
Pro 4189 Pittsburgh, my heart is in Glasgow | Subject: RE: Would you allow..question for the group My take on torture is this: We hate that our POW's were tortured while held. Why were they tortured? information or just plain cruelty. This sucks. To avoid being of the same breed, we should not torture. |
| 2005-12-20 8:09 PM in reply to: #309030 |
Elite 2733 Venture Industries, | Subject: RE: Would you allow..question for the group I was just sitting here trying to determine my answer to this question and I thought, "thank God I don't have to make that decision" which lead me to think of the CIA agent, or Militry Officer in the field that is faced with making that precise decision. Maybe on the fly, trying to weigh the "greater good" angainst his own personal beliefs against his beliefs about what is legally allowed. Man not enough money in the world to put me in that situation. |
| 2005-12-21 9:51 AM in reply to: #309030 |
Master 2232 Des Moines, Iowa | Subject: RE: Would you allow..question for the group What is torture? I say handcuff him to a lightpole in the middle of downtown NYC, tape a cardboard sign above him explaining the situation, and let the people of NYC decide how to get the information out of him. whoops...can I say that being a minister and all (?) |
| 2005-12-21 10:47 AM in reply to: #309030 |
| Crystal Lake, IL | Subject: RE: Would you allow..question for the group I would think that drugging the person would be one of the most effective ways to get the information out of him. Now you have to decide if drugging someone is torture or not. That is an issue unto itself. |
| 2005-12-21 10:55 AM in reply to: #309746 |
Buttercup 14334 | Subject: RE: Would you allow..question for the group That was my thought too - use drugs to loosen the tongue. With our vast array of pharmaceuticals, surely there are a number available for this purpose? |
| 2005-12-21 2:46 PM in reply to: #309431 |
Master 2946 Centennial, CO | Subject: RE: Would you allow..question for the group ASA22 - 2005-12-20 7:09 PM I was just sitting here trying to determine my answer to this question and I thought, "thank God I don't have to make that decision" which lead me to think of the CIA agent, or Militry Officer in the field that is faced with making that precise decision. Maybe on the fly, trying to weigh the "greater good" angainst his own personal beliefs against his beliefs about what is legally allowed. Man not enough money in the world to put me in that situation. I would doubt that people whose personal beliefs contradict the need to perform such tasks often take jobs where they are expected to perform those tasks. |
| 2005-12-22 10:42 AM in reply to: #310005 |
Elite 2733 Venture Industries, | Subject: RE: Would you allow..question for the group My Contracts Professor was a JAG officer during the Vietnam war, he was one of the defense attorneys for Lt. Caley (Sp?) in the Melei masacre case. He may have a different perspective on that. My grandfather won a silver star in WWII, he was drafted, he didn't have aviolent bone in his body, but he killed other humans. I know he struggled with that fact his entire life. |
| 2005-12-22 2:28 PM in reply to: #309030 |
Master 2287 Calgary, Alberta | Subject: RE: Would you allow..question for the group golfinggods - 2005-12-20 12:25 PM America has caught a terrorist (non american, I think he is canadian...lol) Forget torture. Tempt him with Molsons beer, Poutine, reruns of the Beachcombers (<- oh sorry that is torture),,, Edited by CalgaryRunner 2005-12-22 2:28 PM |
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