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School me on bike racing/tour de france
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 2013-07-17 9:39 AM |
 258  |  Subject: School me on bike racing/tour de franceI was never really into watching bike races so I don't know much about them but I have a few questions. Why do they use a TT bike for a time trial? Yes, I know its faster than their road bike but if everyone were to just use their road bike for the TT then everyone would have the same advantage. Also, today they are doing a time trial. I thought time trials were used at the beginning of a race to see in what order you start the race? I figured if I was in the lead by 1 minute at the end of the day I would have a 1 minute head start the next day but they are doing time trials. Thanks in advance for the help. |
| 2013-07-17 10:11 AM in reply to: slaterson19 |
Champion 7821    Brooklyn, NY | Subject: RE: School me on bike racing/tour de france Originally posted by slaterson19 I was never really into watching bike races so I don't know much about them but I have a few questions. Why do they use a TT bike for a time trial? Yes, I know its faster than their road bike but if everyone were to just use their road bike for the TT then everyone would have the same advantage. Also, today they are doing a time trial. I thought time trials were used at the beginning of a race to see in what order you start the race? I figured if I was in the lead by 1 minute at the end of the day I would have a 1 minute head start the next day but they are doing time trials. Thanks in advance for the help. TT bikes are designed for time trials, which is why they use them... Sometimes you'll see them use a road bike if a tt stage is particularly hilly, but a TT bike is the best tool for the job and if they're allowed to use them, which they are, then why not use them? They actually have several different bikes-- a TT bike, a normal road bike, and often, they'll have an extra-light "climbing bike" for the steep mountain stages. They'll usually break up the tour with one or two TT's. You're right that the first stage is usally an individual time trial. This year, for the first time in years, it was a normal road stage, which may be why there's a second ITT in the middle of the race this year. The riders ITT time gets added on to their aggregate time, even though they all start the same time interval apart, so if I have a 1 minute overall lead on you, and you complete the TT thirty seconds faster than me, I now have a 30-scond lead going into the next stage. |
| 2013-07-17 10:22 AM in reply to: jmk-brooklyn |
Pro 5755 | Subject: RE: School me on bike racing/tour de france If you watched today, you'll see some riders actually switched bikes during the TT. Road bike for the hills, then TT on the downhill and flatter sections. It's up to the rider as to what bike they use. The time trials also are part of the tour, and times are added to their overall times. |
| 2013-07-17 11:15 AM in reply to: BrianRunsPhilly |
| 258 | Subject: RE: School me on bike racing/tour de france Thanks for the info |
| 2013-07-17 1:31 PM in reply to: slaterson19 |
Regular 177 Grand Junction, Colorado | Subject: RE: School me on bike racing/tour de france It simply comes down to this..... Better gearing ratio..... Road Bikes have the climbers gear for the dancing on the pedals while climbing.... The TT bikes are geared 4 covering the miles quickly..... Near the end of the coarse 2day, it was a bit of a descent...... Bring on the Swiss Alps |
| 2013-07-17 2:50 PM in reply to: The Padre |
| 258 | Subject: RE: School me on bike racing/tour de france Why don't they simplify it and make them use one bike for the entire race? Same advantage for everyone. |
| 2013-07-17 2:55 PM in reply to: slaterson19 |
Pro 5755 | Subject: RE: School me on bike racing/tour de france Originally posted by slaterson19 Why don't they simplify it and make them use one bike for the entire race? Same advantage for everyone. How does that change anything? Either one bike or many, everyone has the same rules. In the end it comes down to strategy, health, legs, and willpower. |
| 2013-07-17 2:56 PM in reply to: slaterson19 |
Expert 3126 Boise, ID | Subject: RE: School me on bike racing/tour de france Originally posted by slaterson19 Why don't they simplify it and make them use one bike for the entire race? Same advantage for everyone. If they did where in the heck would we get the excuse to own more than one bike? Come on man! |
| 2013-07-17 3:13 PM in reply to: slaterson19 |
Champion 7821 Brooklyn, NY | Subject: RE: School me on bike racing/tour de france Originally posted by slaterson19 Why don't they simplify it and make them use one bike for the entire race? Same advantage for everyone. Because TT bikes are cool! but seriously... To whose benefit would it be to simplify it? Why shouldn't the riders be able to use whatever equipment is best suited for the terrain on a given stage? There are all kinds of weight limits and restrictions on components and geometry that prevent teams with a ton of money (e.g. Sky) from gaining too much of a mechanical advantage over smaller team, so there's already relative parity among teams in terms of equipment. Deciding what bike (road, tt, switching in the middle) and wheels (disk or deep rim? how deep?) is part of the strategy that goes into the race. I don't think you'd be improving the race by making riders pick one bike and wheelset on day one and making them stick with it the whole way. It might be interesting as a curiosity, like making pro golfers pick one club from their bag and playing a whole round with just the one club, but it wouldn't allow the riders to be at their best and the race, overall, wouldn't be as interesting, IMO. |
| 2013-07-17 3:31 PM in reply to: jmk-brooklyn |
Master 4101 Denver | Subject: RE: School me on bike racing/tour de france Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn I'd choose and open-face club, a sand wedge. Mmmmmmm....Originally posted by slaterson19 Why don't they simplify it and make them use one bike for the entire race? Same advantage for everyone. Because TT bikes are cool! but seriously... To whose benefit would it be to simplify it? Why shouldn't the riders be able to use whatever equipment is best suited for the terrain on a given stage? There are all kinds of weight limits and restrictions on components and geometry that prevent teams with a ton of money (e.g. Sky) from gaining too much of a mechanical advantage over smaller team, so there's already relative parity among teams in terms of equipment. Deciding what bike (road, tt, switching in the middle) and wheels (disk or deep rim? how deep?) is part of the strategy that goes into the race. I don't think you'd be improving the race by making riders pick one bike and wheelset on day one and making them stick with it the whole way. It might be interesting as a curiosity, like making pro golfers pick one club from their bag and playing a whole round with just the one club, but it wouldn't allow the riders to be at their best and the race, overall, wouldn't be as interesting, IMO. |
| 2013-07-17 3:36 PM in reply to: BrianRunsPhilly |
Elite 6387 | Subject: RE: School me on bike racing/tour de france Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly Originally posted by slaterson19 Why don't they simplify it and make them use one bike for the entire race? Same advantage for everyone. How does that change anything? Either one bike or many, everyone has the same rules. In the end it comes down to strategy, health, legs, and willpower.
... and dope. |
| 2013-07-17 7:12 PM in reply to: drewb8 |
| Deep in the Heart of Texas | Subject: RE: School me on bike racing/tour de france Originally posted by drewb8 Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn I'd choose and open-face club, a sand wedge. Mmmmmmm.... Originally posted by slaterson19 Why don't they simplify it and make them use one bike for the entire race? Same advantage for everyone. Because TT bikes are cool! but seriously... To whose benefit would it be to simplify it? Why shouldn't the riders be able to use whatever equipment is best suited for the terrain on a given stage? There are all kinds of weight limits and restrictions on components and geometry that prevent teams with a ton of money (e.g. Sky) from gaining too much of a mechanical advantage over smaller team, so there's already relative parity among teams in terms of equipment. Deciding what bike (road, tt, switching in the middle) and wheels (disk or deep rim? how deep?) is part of the strategy that goes into the race. I don't think you'd be improving the race by making riders pick one bike and wheelset on day one and making them stick with it the whole way. It might be interesting as a curiosity, like making pro golfers pick one club from their bag and playing a whole round with just the one club, but it wouldn't allow the riders to be at their best and the race, overall, wouldn't be as interesting, IMO. 7 iron. |
| 2013-07-18 10:13 AM in reply to: slaterson19 |
Master 1883 San Antone, Texas | Subject: RE: School me on bike racing/tour de france Let me see if I understand... you're asking why the riders are using a time trial (TT) bike, to race a time trial? I'm going to just let that go for a moment. You're racing for fractions of a second here, so every little bit counts. The same theory applies to non-draft triathlons. You're really racing against the clock, not against other people. Therefore you use every legal advantage possible to save those precious seconds. In response to your other question, TTs aren't just used at the beginning of a stage race. They can be in any stage, or they can be stand alone races. I'm not sure what you mean in your last sentence. Yes, if someone is in the overall lead by 1 min at the end of a stage, they will still hold that lead at the beginning of the next stage, regardless of whether the stage is a time trial or not. hope this helps. |
| 2013-07-18 10:38 AM in reply to: Aarondb4 |
Champion 16151 Checkin' out the podium girls | Subject: RE: School me on bike racing/tour de france Originally posted by Aarondb4 Originally posted by slaterson19 Why don't they simplify it and make them use one bike for the entire race? Same advantage for everyone. If they did where in the heck would we get the excuse to own more than one bike? Come on man! They should add cyclocross sections so they can have a third bike...I would totally do that. |
| 2013-07-18 10:49 AM in reply to: powerman |
Pro 5755 | Subject: RE: School me on bike racing/tour de france Originally posted by powerman Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly Originally posted by slaterson19 Why don't they simplify it and make them use one bike for the entire race? Same advantage for everyone. How does that change anything? Either one bike or many, everyone has the same rules. In the end it comes down to strategy, health, legs, and willpower. Â ... and dope. Haven't you heard? The Tour is clean now. |
| 2013-07-18 11:02 AM in reply to: BrianRunsPhilly |
| 358 | Subject: RE: School me on bike racing/tour de france Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly Originally posted by powerman Haven't you heard? The Tour is clean now. Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly Originally posted by slaterson19 Why don't they simplify it and make them use one bike for the entire race? Same advantage for everyone. How does that change anything? Either one bike or many, everyone has the same rules. In the end it comes down to strategy, health, legs, and willpower.
... and dope. Schlek on Ventoux would make one believe that. But Froome wouldn't. |
| 2013-07-18 12:11 PM in reply to: RussTKD |
Elite 6387 | Subject: RE: School me on bike racing/tour de france Originally posted by RussTKD Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly Originally posted by powerman Haven't you heard? The Tour is clean now. Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly Originally posted by slaterson19 Why don't they simplify it and make them use one bike for the entire race? Same advantage for everyone. How does that change anything? Either one bike or many, everyone has the same rules. In the end it comes down to strategy, health, legs, and willpower.
... and dope. Schlek on Ventoux would make one believe that. But Froome wouldn't. Watching Froome destroy his rivals does not give one a warm fuzzy. What a shame. Guy could be, but there is just no confidence. And then I can't even take pleasure in a great accomplishment... it's just dope. Watching this tour has been wierd. Froome was good last year, clear contender, strong team... and then he goes out and dominates... sort of reminds me of somone.... One his heels on day, and the team, and then dominates when needed. Just no confidence it it at all. |
| 2013-07-18 12:54 PM in reply to: powerman |
Pro 4675 Wisconsin near the Twin Cities metro | Subject: RE: School me on bike racing/tour de france Originally posted by powerman Watching Froome destroy his rivals does not give one a warm fuzzy. What a shame. Guy could be, but there is just no confidence. And then I can't even take pleasure in a great accomplishment... it's just dope. Watching this tour has been wierd. Froome was good last year, clear contender, strong team... and then he goes out and dominates... sort of reminds me of somone.... One his heels on day, and the team, and then dominates when needed. Just no confidence it it at all. He was being paid to support Wiggins last year, not to be the team leader. So, because Wiggins is out this year and Froome can step in as team leader he's a doper? I'd discuss today's result but don't want to be a spoiler. |
| 2013-07-18 1:05 PM in reply to: BrianRunsPhilly |
Expert 1121 Menomonee Falls, WI | Subject: RE: School me on bike racing/tour de france Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly If you watched today, you'll see some riders actually switched bikes during the TT. Road bike for the hills, then TT on the downhill and flatter sections. It's up to the rider as to what bike they use. The time trials also are part of the tour, and times are added to their overall times. I watched it last night and found the bike swapping amazingly cool. I couldn't believe how quickly they could swap out a bike from a roof rack and keep the rider going. I also noticed a lot of guys using road bikes with clip on tri-bars for the ascents. Kind of getting the best of both worlds. A lot of strategy coming into play. Great race! |
| 2013-07-18 2:09 PM in reply to: Birkierunner |
Elite 6387 | Subject: RE: School me on bike racing/tour de france Originally posted by Birkierunner Originally posted by powerman Watching Froome destroy his rivals does not give one a warm fuzzy. What a shame. Guy could be, but there is just no confidence. And then I can't even take pleasure in a great accomplishment... it's just dope. Watching this tour has been wierd. Froome was good last year, clear contender, strong team... and then he goes out and dominates... sort of reminds me of somone.... One his heels on day, and the team, and then dominates when needed. Just no confidence it it at all. He was being paid to support Wiggins last year, not to be the team leader. So, because Wiggins is out this year and Froome can step in as team leader he's a doper? I'd discuss today's result but don't want to be a spoiler. No, it is that he is simply suspect based on about 20 years of doping in proffesional cycling. When one guy stands above the rest in such a fasion, it's suspect. It's just the truth of the matter. Complete shame if he is clean to not be recognised as a great cyclist... but we have seen a lot of "great cyclists" busted after the fact. |
| 2013-07-18 2:24 PM in reply to: powerman |
| 358 | Subject: RE: School me on bike racing/tour de france Originally posted by powerman Originally posted by RussTKD Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly Originally posted by powerman Haven't you heard? The Tour is clean now. Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly Originally posted by slaterson19 Why don't they simplify it and make them use one bike for the entire race? Same advantage for everyone. How does that change anything? Either one bike or many, everyone has the same rules. In the end it comes down to strategy, health, legs, and willpower.
... and dope. Schlek on Ventoux would make one believe that. But Froome wouldn't. Watching Froome destroy his rivals does not give one a warm fuzzy. What a shame. Guy could be, but there is just no confidence. And then I can't even take pleasure in a great accomplishment... it's just dope. Watching this tour has been wierd. Froome was good last year, clear contender, strong team... and then he goes out and dominates... sort of reminds me of somone.... One his heels on day, and the team, and then dominates when needed. Just no confidence it it at all.
The day (Stage 8 Castres - Domaines) Quintana went out early and destroyed everyone on that climb, then got reeled back in on the descent only to have Froome crush him up the second climb was the day where Froome really looked superhuman. If he's clean, fantastic. If not, no big surprise. I'll still pay attention to the Tour only to watch guys come down mountain at 50 MPH on inch wide tires while essentially naked. And the bike porn is pretty cool too. |
| 2013-07-18 2:56 PM in reply to: The Padre |
Expert 1484 | Subject: RE: School me on bike racing/tour de france Originally posted by The Padre It simply comes down to this..... Better gearing ratio..... Road Bikes have the climbers gear for the dancing on the pedals while climbing.... The TT bikes are geared 4 covering the miles quickly..... Near the end of the coarse 2day, it was a bit of a descent...... Bring on the Swiss Alps You can gear a TT and road bike exactly the same. TT bikes are not allowed in mass start races. Most of the stages in the Tour are mass start. Road bikes have better geometry for climbing, TT bikes have better geometry for flatter roads. |
| 2013-07-18 3:05 PM in reply to: magic |
Expert 1121 Menomonee Falls, WI | Subject: RE: School me on bike racing/tour de france Originally posted by magic Originally posted by The Padre It simply comes down to this..... Better gearing ratio..... Road Bikes have the climbers gear for the dancing on the pedals while climbing.... The TT bikes are geared 4 covering the miles quickly..... Near the end of the coarse 2day, it was a bit of a descent...... Bring on the Swiss Alps You can gear a TT and road bike exactly the same. TT bikes are not allowed in mass start races. Most of the stages in the Tour are mass start. Road bikes have better geometry for climbing, TT bikes have better geometry for flatter roads. Not to mention who would want to be on a TT bike in a peloton of that size? You'd never be able to get into aero when you have dozens of guys within inches of you. I would think you'd want to have your hands close to the brakes virtually all the time meaning road bikes are always safer in group rides. |
| 2013-07-19 9:04 AM in reply to: slaterson19 |
| Master 1946 Memphis, TN | Subject: RE: School me on bike racing/tour de france Originally posted by slaterson19 Why don't they simplify it and make them use one bike for the entire race? Same advantage for everyone. Are you serious or are you f&^ing with me here? |
| 2013-07-19 8:58 PM in reply to: Jtiger |
| 258 | Subject: RE: School me on bike racing/tour de france Why aren't pro triathletes (ironman) allowed to switch bikes on the course (team car) for climbing, descending, flat sections? |
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