More flawed intelligence?

What????  A foreign affairs mistake made by THIS administration??  Who would have ever thought.....

Considering they're not sure where some of the key parts came from, that article is hardly conclusive.  Besides, the expertise to build such things comes from somewhere....I would be willing to guess that it could very well be Iran, or Hezbollah supplying that (Hezbollah developed a special shaped charge called a platter charge designed to kill Israeli tanks).  Also, there's been evidence of more advanced triggering mechanisms, which could point to state-level involvement (at least, that's what the Brits have claimed).

I will say this much:  It takes a fair amount of skill and knowledge to put one of those together, as well as make it actually effective. 

Ultimately, to most of us, it doesn't make a bit of difference where the weapons or training are coming from, does it?  The fact is, the weapons, and the training on how to build and implement them, is coming from somewhere.

My understanding is that yes, Iran is supplying at a minimum, training and experts to insurgent groups.  I also believe that Iran has much more than that in terms of involvement.  It's no secret that much of the Shi'a population looks to Ayatollah Sistani as a leader, and that al Sadr talks to him.

Am I wrong, N.Korea was actually attempting to develop nuclear weapons?  The article doesn't call that into question, does it?  So the notion that N.K. was attempting to develop the weapons wasn't faulty, correct?  Or am I reading this wrong?

(And not to say I told you so, but about a year ago on CoJ, I predicted that NK was just sabre rattling to increase its negotiatiog position for fuel oil)

Explosive materials, yes it's coming from somewhere.  But can at least some of this be from previous Iraqi army stockpiles that have been scavenged? I haven't seen that addressed. Then again I haven't looked very hard for the answer.

As to people with the expertise to assemble and deploy them, well there were a good number of those when we arrived. We do know that one of them is on a TV island and is currently at the mercy of the Dharma project or it's remnants. The rest, it's probably a safe bet they're still in Iraq.

It's not the explosive materials that's in question.  It's the warheads for the shaped charges that's in question.

Building shaped charges is not a skill most military people learn, especially in most militaries modeled after the Soviet structure.  It's not an easy task.  Trust me on that one.

LMAO!!!!!

Useless trivia fact:  The Germans were the first to use shaped charges in military operations when they attacked the Eben Emael fortress in Belgium in WWII.

Dear Sirs,

I agree.  Bad intelligence is running rampant in our society.  I'm not at all surprised that you have information that might lead you to deny us...but there are just certain things that are facts of life, and you need to start dealing with 'em. Thanks in advance for your acknowledgement of reality.   

Sincerely,

WMD in Iraq, Sasquatch, Aliens, polite people from NYC, and the Confessions Thread.

Yeah, you're probably right.  NK does is just misunderstood....

The only evil in the world is the Bush adminstration and if we can put a democrat back in office all will be right in the world again.  *sigh*

~Mike

So tell me if I'm wrong but,

I don't understand how people say "this administration" lied to us.  Does the FBI/CIA/NSA/Military get changed every presidential election?  I don't think Bush and Rice are doing black ops in the middle east. 

So your position is that the Bush administration caused NK to start a nuclear weapons program?  That before the US was looking inot the uranium enrichment issue NK had no intentions of building a nuclear weapon?  Really?

jimbo - 2007-03-01 11:35 PM

ASA22 - 2007-03-01 11:16 PM

jimbo - 2007-03-01 7:23 PM

Rogillio - 2007-03-01 6:42 PM

North Korea enriching uranium? Nonesense? Just bad intelligence again!

Well let's think...the United States was enriching uranium in 1942....

Yeah, NK (and Iran) are still 10+ years away from being able to do what we did 65 years ago. I think they are still using stone tools.

It's all just incompetence of the Republican administration getting the intel wrong. Whew! Glad we cleared that up. Sleep well again.

~Mike

north korea used plutonium for their nuclear weapons, not uranium. the intelligence that the bush administration is now backing off of was with regard to uranium. when the clinton-brokered 1994 agreement fell through in 2002 because of the bush administration's claims about n.korea enriching uranium, that opened the door for n.korea to enrich plutonium. so yeah. it does seem like incompetence of this administration getting the intel wrong. of the three members of the "axis of evil," bush invaded the one without a nuclear program. way 2 go! .

 

So your position is that the Bush administration caused NK to start a nuclear weapons program? That before the US was looking inot the uranium enrichment issue NK had no intentions of building a nuclear weapon? Really?

that's not my position at all, but thanks for simplifying it into an easily knocked down strawman. yes, n.korea had been interested in building up their nuclear program for decades. i said nothing to dispute that. so how did n.korea manage to make such progress over the last few years from the point of having zero nukes to having maybe a dozen? in 2002, the bush administration accused n.korea of enriching uranium-- not just having the capacity to enrich uranium but actually procuring and enriching uranium. it now appears that these charges were questionable at the time and even more questionable today. (see also: "The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa." after making these charges, the US cut off oil supplies to n.korea, and in response, n.korea threw out international inspectors and broke the seals at the Yongbyon facility and began processing plutonium. this was a predictable reaction, and n.korea processing plutonium they already had was as great or a greater threat than the possibility that n.korea might get some uranium and enrich it. but at the time Bush and pals were more interested in that other member of the axis of evil, iraq. and so n.korea didn't get a whole lot of attention until they tested a nuke. think of them as the "Jan" of the axis of evil to iraq's Marcia and iran's Cindy. ("It's always Marcia, Marcia, Marcia!!!" and given all this, what exactly had bushco done to put a stop to any of it over the last five years? did the bush administration "cause NK to start a nuclear weapons program"? no, that'd be a stupid thing to say. they'd started it a long time before bush decided to sober up, back when the presidency was just a glimmer in bush's coke spoon. however, as for the bush administration's actions and the progression of n.korea's nuclear weapons program, why don't we ask a couple of bush administration officials what they have to say. administration officials? what say you?

"Two administration officials, who declined to be identified, suggested that if the administration harbored the same doubts in 2002 that it harbored now, the negotiating strategy for dealing with North Korea might have been different — and the -for-tat actions that led to October’s nuclear test could, conceivably, have been avoided.

so if i'm understanding these anonymous administration officials, if they'd been a little more measured in their actions over uranium in 2002, then the situation where n.korea has tested a plutonium-based nuke and likely has several more could have been avoided. i hope that helps to clarify my position. .

 jimbo, jimbo.....don't believe everything you read man!  This who tread was started on the statement  "....the Bush administration appears to be backing off this claim...."

Does that mean it's must not be true?  No!  What that means is the US and NK et al are talking and negotiating. 

Since you seem to believe what you read in the news why no go back about 7 or 8 years and read about how the NKs broke the agreement they had with the Clinton admin and refused to allow inspectors into their facilities and how they could not account for the spent fuel rods. 

The threat from NK is real and I'm sure most people don't really care if it is a uranium based nuke or a plutonium based nuke that NK has.

What the Bush administration has done to stand down the North Koreans was to support and fund missile defense - a program that the dems have fought tooth-and-nail since day one.  We can talk all day about what NK might or might not have or who is to blame for thier nuclear intentions but we are now negotiating from the power position thanks to the Bush admistration's foresight regarding missile defense.

~Mike