Ben Carson

Hmm, yeah, I saw part of it.  I'm a big fan of his "self-reliance" message...but I'm 100% opposed to his advocacy of a biblically-inspired flat tax.  10% to a billionaire is nothing...10% to a struggling single mom of 3 or 4 kids?  That's huge.

Just as Nate Silver should stick to politics, Ben should stick to neurosurgery. (in my opinion)

Actually, 10% to a single mom is still 10%. It's the same 10% the billionaire pays. I can't quite comprehend how anyone does not mind turning over a billion dollars to the government using the example in the video.

I liked the video. Lots of good points.

At least Biden pretended to be interested.

I don't think I'm going too far out on a limb in saying that 10% to a billionaire is most definitely not nothing.

10% of what you make is 10% of what you make, it doesn't matter how rich or how poor you are it hurts.  Also, as someone who worked from minimum wage jobs all the way up to owning a business the 10% hurts a ton more now than it ever did when I was poor.

So 10% to " struggling single mom of 3 or 4 kids" barely making ends meet hurts less than a billionaire, with income of say $10million, who gets to keep $9million of that? Not sure how it can hurt you more now that your basic needs are met, unless when you were in the minimum wage job you were living off of someone else.

I have no problem with a flat tax that exempts enough income to provide a living wage. Say, 10% of income over $30K, as an arbitrary example

Personally I like the idea of a flat tax of whatever percent with staple items being exempt.  All Food, All Utilities, Housing up to some arbitrary cap (lets say $500k valuation).  I'm sure there's some holes in it so I'm speaking generally.

One area that I'm 100% on board with Obama is that everyone should pay there fair share.

I agree with the Bear.  10% over a minimum makes sense to me.  So you make up to $30K, nothing.  You make $31K, you give $500 or something like that until you get to $35K and then you're giving 10% from there on out.  He explained very accurately that it's the "unfair" tax system that is causing the creation of ~620 Cayman Island funds. 

Carson's Mom worked 2 or 3 custodial jobs to pay for her 4 kids and she refused to go on welfare because she said "once you go on welfare, you never come-off it".  He knows what it's like to grow up poor which is why people's outrage about his lack of empathy is funny.  Do you think Dr. Ben Carson doesn't feel empathy for the poor?  He knows poor far more than Barack Obama knows poor.

One thing I wonder though: Let's say you do the Bear's tax system.  What happens to non profits that currently get a lot of money from rich people making a tax-exempt donation?

I know before I factored my tithe this time around, I was paying money.  Type in my tithe and BAM! Gubment owes me money. I would still tithe.  I just wonder if there would be rich people donating over and above the 10% if you got rid of the exemptions for 501(c)(3) organizations.

Yes I do believe people would still make charitable contributions over and above what taxes would "dictate".   Many people donate for additional reasons including actual good will.

What exactly is a fair share? I've never understood this concept as I hear it presented. The people who make more should pay more is fair how?

I am a huge fan of a flat tax. Everyone pays the same percentage. That way the "rich" will pay "more" but everyone will pay their "fair share". If we all pay X% of our income that seems pretty fair (as in equitable). Also, the tax percentage should be the same on all income. Earned income should not be taxed at a different rate than interest or dividend income or sales proceeds. Income is income no matter the source.

Of course we need to get a handle on spending as well. Tax revenue is just part of the picture. Combine everyone paying in at the same rate with sensible spending and proper stewardship of all our resources and there will be plenty of affordable goods and services for the guy earning $30 who is taxed at the same rate as the guy earning $300K

BTW, in case you missed it I agree with you completely.  I like to joke about agreeing with Obama that everyone should pay their "fair share" but my idea of "fair" is completely different than his idea of fair.

Now I see where you went with it. I just saw "fair share" and jumped on it, not you in particular. Not this time

I read on a conservative blog that Bob Beckel isn't too pleased with Mr. Ben Carson.
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/340461/bob-beckel-v-benjamin-carson-jonah-goldberg
(Disclaimer: conservative site not saying nice things about Beckel)

I'm curious who scheduled him to speak at the breakfast.  I'm guessing this individual is adding to the unemployment count.

It's already a rigged system that favors the rich.  Taking away the progressive tax and replacing it with a flat tax would bludgeon the lower and middle classes.  The separation between rich and poor is growing.  Taking away progressive taxation would accelerate the pace at which rich and poor are divided.  Then again, maybe a return to the good ol' feudal days is what we need, eh?  

The 10% is the same percentage to rich and poor, but that 10% hit on the poor folks could be the difference between getting that child into college or trade school...or not.  

Fortunately, the American electorate isn't eager to lower taxes on those who earn the most money.

So if you're poor you get a free housing, free food, free education, free phone, free medical, free transportation, etc...  Yet you feel the system is rigged to favor the rich?  lol

The poor in America are wealthier than most people in the world.  The rich have gotten richer in America and the poor have gotten richer right along with them.  There is income/class mobility today just like there always has been.  Barring a legitimate mental/physical handicap if somebody gets off their lazy behind they have every ability to succeed in this country. 
However, people in power try to convince the poor that there is no upward mobility and it's all my fault because I did get off my behind to get out of poverty.

Oh and I call BS on the bolded.  Any poor kid who can read write and formulate a halfway complete sentence can get a full ride scholarship to college if they want to.  However, their parents and their parents parents have been living on welfare so comfortably they choose not to go because it's easier to just continue the cycle.  BTW, this would be 95% of my entire family.

This sounds an awful lot like something I heard several months ago...something about a lazy 47%...

btw, you called BS on my statement, but this one isn''t?  "Any poor kid who can read write and formulate a halfway complete sentence can get a full ride scholarship to college if they want to."         All it takes is for someone to want a full ride scholarship, and they can get one?  I wish I had heard about this one when I was going through school.  

I bolded your statement that is not supported by the numbers.  btw, I am not saying there is zero chance of upward mobility.  Sure there are Lefty politicians who will exaggerate the limited class mobility...but then there are Righty politicians who say what you are saying, implying a majority of the poor are lazy.  The correct answer is in between those extremes.

The correct answer in my opinion is finding a comfortable middle ground.  Crack down on those that game the system.  Make food stamps grade D, bulk foods, that will keep poor men, women, and children from going hungry...no frills...no choice.  Make it cheap, bland sustenance.  As for your 1st paragraph Tony, yeah, those poor folk are just makin' out like bandits...livin' the good life they are.  

As for your last paragraph, nobody's blaming you for anything because you got out of poverty.  I am not understanding the connection there.

They're blaming the collective "me" because I'm the "rich guy".

Perhaps I shouldn't use the word lazy because it's not really a fair description.  What I will say is people often take the path of least resistance so when the government makes being poor so comfortable and easy it provides little incentive to not be poor.

I in no way endorse leaving the poor out to dry, but I think the collective effort to "help" the poor has effectively "hurt" the poor far more than it's helped.  I agree that there is less class mobility today by the numbers, but my position is that it's not because of lack of opportunity, it's because of a lack of desire or need.

Tony, I think we actually agree more than we disagree on several aspects of this issue.  I don't think folks in general though, "blame the rich guy," I think most folks look confused when they hear the Phil Mickelsons of the world complain about how much they pay in taxes...which in today's day and age is actually a lot less than it was in the past.  It's not about blaming the rich guy, it's more like disagreeing with folks who want those at the top of the totem pole who are doing quite well, to do even better.

I am glad btw you clarified the use of the word "lazy."  That said, I wouldn't consider living at the bottom of the totem pole (no matter what the benefits may be) a "comfortable and easy" existence.

But similar to Ben Carson I don't understand what's wrong with Phil Mickelsons of the world doing better.  I feel it would help the poor far more than it hurts them.  I know there's a lot of debate about the effectiveness of trickle down economics, but I feel very confident that trickle down economics is a lot better than trickle down government (to use Romney's term).

Little bit of a segue, but here's an informative read on the history of the progressive tax.
http://www.fee.org/the_freeman/detail/the-progressive-income-tax-in-us-history#axzz2Kjotb03V

My favorite quote “in this country we neither create nor tolerate any distinction of rank, race, or color, and should not tolerate anything else than entire equality in our taxes.”

Phil has earned about $80 million in his career playing golf, most of it in the last 10 years, and that doesn't even count his endorsements  He is worth about $160 million.  I think he can afford to pay a little more in taxes than the struggling single mom with 3 kids.  I think most folks out there agree with me.  (perhaps it's a generational difference...decades ago, we didn't hear as many cries from those at the top of the income scale about having to pay more than their poorer brethren...I wonder why that is)