so frustrated with HR training, help please!

jsnowash - 2010-09-17 12:35 PM 1) Forget about MAX HR - it's a meaningless measurement when it comes to endurance training.... 2) If you really want to train using HR as a guide, invest in a a heart rate monitor. Once you're comfortable using it, conduct an LT (lactate threshold) field test. You can find directions on doing the test here. 3) Once you've done the field test, use the LT number you determined to establish your training zones. All that said, though, if you are new to endurance training, I would suggest that for now you exercise by perceived effort. It sounds like, as a beginner, you are probably pushing a bit too hard. Do your training runs/rides at a pace that feels easy to moderately hard, and during which you could hold a conversation either in full sentences or at least a few words at a time. Once you've been training for a while, then consider jumping into the world of HR training. For now, just get out there and begin building that aerobic base at an easy, sustainable effort. ETA: If "easy sustainable effort" means you need to walk up hills for now - that's okay!!

kc_racer - 2010-09-17 3:50 PM

great feedback, thanks everyone.

I have only used an HR monitor at one point in my life and that's when I was pregnant and still running with my first child (5 yrs ago). Dr's orders were to not allow my HR over 150.

I guess I thought the 240 WAS my lactate threshold, but after reading more about it, it sound like it would need to be the average over a determined period of time at a strong effort.

Everything I had read up until now was to build a good aerobic base to start, hence why I was trying to find the zones. But you all are the first to tell me to throw it all out and go by RPE....hmmm I will have to try this... Is it harder to test progress this way?

kc_racer - 2010-09-17 1:50 PM ... Is it harder to test progress this way?

jamiej - 2010-09-17 4:04 PM

HR is such a DEpendent measure that it's hard to judge anything with it. Again, IMHO only.

Scout7 - 2010-09-17 4:31 PM



But, you want a dependent measurement. You are measuring effort, not speed. RPE and HR both measure effort.

For example, my pace for an easy run today may be 10:00/mile. Tomorrow, it's hot and humid; at the same effort, my pace slows to 10:30. What's the right pace to use?

Pace is great for controlled efforts, like intervals. But I have found it to be misguided for general running for the average person who doesn't have a lot of racing experience.

That's been my experience, at least.

kc_racer - 2010-09-17 11:22

My max HR is 240...and no, that is not using a heart rate monitor. That is old school checking the pulse in my neck

Donto - 2010-09-17 4:01 PM op,
If you want to use HR get a HR monitor and use it properly starting with the field tests. If you want to go by pace range based on a run race, use something like McMillan's run calculator.  Then there's good old RPE which you can find on the net or there's a table at the end of the field test link above.  There are so many factors involved with the environment and how you are feeling on the moment that nothing is concrete.  However if you measuring such a high HR using a 10 sec count at the end of a run I'd suggest slow down unless it was a hard effort run on purpose!

kc_racer - 2010-09-17 3:24 PM

That's a great run calculator, thanks for sharing.

I would like to do a field test but not willing to purchase an HR monitor yet just for that purpose, or for continued use yet either. Being a newbie, I have a long list of items on my wish list that I need to work through first I may see if I can find a friend and borrow.

The 240 was most certainly after a butt kicking 2 mile run. Pushed it hard enough that I wanted to throw up and felt that I absolutely no questions asked , gave it all I had. BUT, with that said, I have also counted the 240 after climbing a really tough hill out of the saddle, AND during a 9:00 min mile pace during the run portion of a brick.

I would like to think that I am pushing myself too hard, but relatively speaking, I am too slow to be so maxed, argh!!!!

kc_racer - 2010-09-17 3:50 PM

great feedback, thanks everyone.

I have only used an HR monitor at one point in my life and that's when I was pregnant and still running with my first child (5 yrs ago). Dr's orders were to not allow my HR over 150.

I guess I thought the 240 WAS my lactate threshold, but after reading more about it, it sound like it would need to be the average over a determined period of time at a strong effort.

Everything I had read up until now was to build a good aerobic base to start, hence why I was trying to find the zones. But you all are the first to tell me to throw it all out and go by RPE....hmmm I will have to try this... Is it harder to test progress this way?

jamiej - 2010-09-17 2:04 PM
HR training, IMHO, is basically useless. But, Dr.'s orders are orders I guess. Maybe you should ask him/her how he/she arrived at that number? If you can ignore HR I would train on pace. You can use something like mcmillan running or daniels vdot formula based on recent past races. Buy yourself a cheap Garmin (like a 305 etc) and train on pace. For the bike, use a powermeter. HR is such a DEpendent measure that it's hard to judge anything with it. Again, IMHO only.

Av8rTx - 2010-09-17 4:19 PM

Pulse and heart rate are not always the same thing! Also, Reading the heart rate this way can be inaccurate if you count not only the pulse at your carotid artery but a possible pulse in your finger tips-they will not always be in sync

jasonmkennedy - 2010-09-17 4:25 PM As a side note to the OP, my heart ranges tend to be on the high end as well.

At age 40 my max hr is up around 210-220ish and my Vo2 max is around 180, so don't be to put off by the higher numbers.   I find that the higher range of heart rates do effect nutrition a bit and I end up putting a few extra electrolytes in my body for longer efforts.

Cheers,
-jason

COSkiGirl - 2010-09-17 4:27 PM

I don't understand the bolded.  Just because you're slow doesn't mean you're not working to YOUR max.   If you're not willing to buy a HR monitor then drop the HR training plan because it's useless periodic measuring or measuring at the end of your runs isn't going to do you much good.  Go by RPE.