so frustrated with HR training, help please!
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I keep searching the internet on my issue and I am really having a hard time find anything other than people (and even medical professionals) commenting that my max hr to physically impossible. My max HR is 240...and no, that is not using a heart rate monitor. That is old school checking the pulse in my neck and counting for 10 secs. 40 beats in 10 secs...consistently. Sometimes it is beating so fast I can hardly count accurately. This happens on a hard run or hill climbing. So if I use all the HR zone calculations of 220 minus age, etc etc, it forces me to freaking WALK to stay in zones. A I am not out of shape and have always had a high heart rate. Resting HR is 60. 32 yr old female. Any thoughts?? Am I doing something wrong here?? |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Wow, I don't have a answer for you but that is such a wide range. When I started my high was around 200 but my low was around 80. I wish you luck on finding a answer.. |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I don't train by heart rate, but I'm just curious if you actually use a heart rate monitor. |
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Extreme Veteran![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I'm not big on training by HR, but if that's what floats your boat, then you would be best served to get & use a good-quality HRM (not DITY with your fingers and public math), and go get a VO2-Max test to most accurately determine your own HR levels. Cheers, Chris |
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![]() | ![]() You need to throw away your zones based on max hr and do a LT field test intead |
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Pro ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() 1) Forget about MAX HR - it's a meaningless measurement when it comes to endurance training.... 2) If you really want to train using HR as a guide, invest in a a heart rate monitor. Once you're comfortable using it, conduct an LT (lactate threshold) field test. You can find directions on doing the test here. 3) Once you've done the field test, use the LT number you determined to establish your training zones. All that said, though, if you are new to endurance training, I would suggest that for now you exercise by perceived effort. It sounds like, as a beginner, you are probably pushing a bit too hard. Do your training runs/rides at a pace that feels easy to moderately hard, and during which you could hold a conversation either in full sentences or at least a few words at a time. Once you've been training for a while, then consider jumping into the world of HR training. For now, just get out there and begin building that aerobic base at an easy, sustainable effort. ETA: If "easy sustainable effort" means you need to walk up hills for now - that's okay!! Edited by jsnowash 2010-09-17 11:38 AM |
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Pro ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() jsnowash - 2010-09-17 12:35 PM 1) Forget about MAX HR - it's a meaningless measurement when it comes to endurance training.... 2) If you really want to train using HR as a guide, invest in a a heart rate monitor. Once you're comfortable using it, conduct an LT (lactate threshold) field test. You can find directions on doing the test here. 3) Once you've done the field test, use the LT number you determined to establish your training zones. All that said, though, if you are new to endurance training, I would suggest that for now you exercise by perceived effort. It sounds like, as a beginner, you are probably pushing a bit too hard. Do your training runs/rides at a pace that feels easy to moderately hard, and during which you could hold a conversation either in full sentences or at least a few words at a time. Once you've been training for a while, then consider jumping into the world of HR training. For now, just get out there and begin building that aerobic base at an easy, sustainable effort. ETA: If "easy sustainable effort" means you need to walk up hills for now - that's okay!! x2! Good post! + If you do decide to use HR instead of RPE, you need to know that your zones for biking and running are different so you need to do separate tests for them. Also, you will need to re-test periodically, because your zones will change as your fitness improves. |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() great feedback, thanks everyone. I have only used an HR monitor at one point in my life and that's when I was pregnant and still running with my first child (5 yrs ago). Dr's orders were to not allow my HR over 150. I guess I thought the 240 WAS my lactate threshold, but after reading more about it, it sound like it would need to be the average over a determined period of time at a strong effort. Everything I had read up until now was to build a good aerobic base to start, hence why I was trying to find the zones. But you all are the first to tell me to throw it all out and go by RPE....hmmm I will have to try this... Is it harder to test progress this way? |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() kc_racer - 2010-09-17 3:50 PM great feedback, thanks everyone. I have only used an HR monitor at one point in my life and that's when I was pregnant and still running with my first child (5 yrs ago). Dr's orders were to not allow my HR over 150. I guess I thought the 240 WAS my lactate threshold, but after reading more about it, it sound like it would need to be the average over a determined period of time at a strong effort. Everything I had read up until now was to build a good aerobic base to start, hence why I was trying to find the zones. But you all are the first to tell me to throw it all out and go by RPE....hmmm I will have to try this... Is it harder to test progress this way? HR training, IMHO, is basically useless. But, Dr.'s orders are orders I guess. Maybe you should ask him/her how he/she arrived at that number? If you can ignore HR I would train on pace. You can use something like mcmillan running or daniels vdot formula based on recent past races. Buy yourself a cheap Garmin (like a 305 etc) and train on pace. For the bike, use a powermeter. HR is such a DEpendent measure that it's hard to judge anything with it. Again, IMHO only. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() kc_racer - 2010-09-17 1:50 PM ... Is it harder to test progress this way? HR doesn't really indicate progress either. Stopwatch and a fixed course is your guide to progress. |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() QUOTE] HR training, IMHO, is basically useless. But, Dr.'s orders are orders I guess. Maybe you should ask him/her how he/she arrived at that number? If you can ignore HR I would train on pace. You can use something like mcmillan running or daniels vdot formula based on recent past races. Buy yourself a cheap Garmin (like a 305 etc) and train on pace. For the bike, use a powermeter. HR is such a DEpendent measure that it's hard to judge anything with it. Again, IMHO only. Sorry, should have been more clear...the 150 limit was provided by my doc 5 years ago when I was pregnant...just threw that out there as it was my only experience with an HR monitor as it was a question above. The 150 limit is a common number for pregnant athletes as anything more *supposedly* has the potential to deny oxygen to developing fetus and placenta. I found the more conservative docs quote the 150 as precautionary which I had no issue with ![]() Thanks for the input! |
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Runner | ![]() jamiej - 2010-09-17 4:04 PM HR is such a DEpendent measure that it's hard to judge anything with it. Again, IMHO only. But, you want a dependent measurement. You are measuring effort, not speed. RPE and HR both measure effort. For example, my pace for an easy run today may be 10:00/mile. Tomorrow, it's hot and humid; at the same effort, my pace slows to 10:30. What's the right pace to use? Pace is great for controlled efforts, like intervals. But I have found it to be misguided for general running for the average person who doesn't have a lot of racing experience. That's been my experience, at least. |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Scout7 - 2010-09-17 4:31 PM jamiej - 2010-09-17 4:04 PM HR is such a DEpendent measure that it's hard to judge anything with it. Again, IMHO only. But, you want a dependent measurement. You are measuring effort, not speed. RPE and HR both measure effort. For example, my pace for an easy run today may be 10:00/mile. Tomorrow, it's hot and humid; at the same effort, my pace slows to 10:30. What's the right pace to use? Pace is great for controlled efforts, like intervals. But I have found it to be misguided for general running for the average person who doesn't have a lot of racing experience. That's been my experience, at least. I understand what you are saying but what I'm saying is that HR is DEpendent on way too many things to be a true measure of any ONE thing. Pace is pace. Watts are watts (you are training with watts right?). In racing you may have to defer to HR/RPE based on the type of day you get but for training I want something that tells me exactly what I'm doing. Trying to judge progress based on HR is just plain silly. The guy that said a track and a stopwatch is the best way to judge progress has the right idea. |
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Pro ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() op, If you want to use HR get a HR monitor and use it properly starting with the field tests. If you want to go by pace range based on a run race, use something like McMillan's run calculator. Then there's good old RPE which you can find on the net or there's a table at the end of the field test link above. There are so many factors involved with the environment and how you are feeling on the moment that nothing is concrete. However if you measuring such a high HR using a 10 sec count at the end of a run I'd suggest slow down unless it was a hard effort run on purpose! |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() kc_racer - 2010-09-17 11:22 My max HR is 240...and no, that is not using a heart rate monitor. That is old school checking the pulse in my neck Pulse and heart rate are not always the same thing! Also, Reading the heart rate this way can be inaccurate if you count not only the pulse at your carotid artery but a possible pulse in your finger tips-they will not always be in sync |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Donto - 2010-09-17 4:01 PM op, If you want to use HR get a HR monitor and use it properly starting with the field tests. If you want to go by pace range based on a run race, use something like McMillan's run calculator. Then there's good old RPE which you can find on the net or there's a table at the end of the field test link above. There are so many factors involved with the environment and how you are feeling on the moment that nothing is concrete. However if you measuring such a high HR using a 10 sec count at the end of a run I'd suggest slow down unless it was a hard effort run on purpose! That's a great run calculator, thanks for sharing. I would like to do a field test but not willing to purchase an HR monitor yet just for that purpose, or for continued use yet either. Being a newbie, I have a long list of items on my wish list that I need to work through first ![]() The 240 was most certainly after a butt kicking 2 mile run. Pushed it hard enough that I wanted to throw up and felt that I absolutely no questions asked , gave it all I had. BUT, with that said, I have also counted the 240 after climbing a really tough hill out of the saddle, AND during a 9:00 min mile pace during the run portion of a brick. I would like to think that I am pushing myself too hard, but relatively speaking, I am too slow to be so maxed, argh!!!! ![]() |
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Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() As a side note to the OP, my heart ranges tend to be on the high end as well. At age 40 my max hr is up around 210-220ish and my Vo2 max is around 180, so don't be to put off by the higher numbers. I find that the higher range of heart rates do effect nutrition a bit and I end up putting a few extra electrolytes in my body for longer efforts. Cheers, -jason |
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![]() | ![]() kc_racer - 2010-09-17 3:24 PM Donto - 2010-09-17 4:01 PM op, If you want to use HR get a HR monitor and use it properly starting with the field tests. If you want to go by pace range based on a run race, use something like McMillan's run calculator. Then there's good old RPE which you can find on the net or there's a table at the end of the field test link above. There are so many factors involved with the environment and how you are feeling on the moment that nothing is concrete. However if you measuring such a high HR using a 10 sec count at the end of a run I'd suggest slow down unless it was a hard effort run on purpose! That's a great run calculator, thanks for sharing. I would like to do a field test but not willing to purchase an HR monitor yet just for that purpose, or for continued use yet either. Being a newbie, I have a long list of items on my wish list that I need to work through first ![]() The 240 was most certainly after a butt kicking 2 mile run. Pushed it hard enough that I wanted to throw up and felt that I absolutely no questions asked , gave it all I had. BUT, with that said, I have also counted the 240 after climbing a really tough hill out of the saddle, AND during a 9:00 min mile pace during the run portion of a brick. I would like to think that I am pushing myself too hard, but relatively speaking, I am too slow to be so maxed, argh!!!! ![]() I don't understand the bolded. Just because you're slow doesn't mean you're not working to YOUR max. If you're not willing to buy a HR monitor then drop the HR training plan because it's useless periodic measuring or measuring at the end of your runs isn't going to do you much good. Go by RPE. |
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Pro ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() kc_racer - 2010-09-17 3:50 PM great feedback, thanks everyone. I have only used an HR monitor at one point in my life and that's when I was pregnant and still running with my first child (5 yrs ago). Dr's orders were to not allow my HR over 150. I guess I thought the 240 WAS my lactate threshold, but after reading more about it, it sound like it would need to be the average over a determined period of time at a strong effort. Everything I had read up until now was to build a good aerobic base to start, hence why I was trying to find the zones. But you all are the first to tell me to throw it all out and go by RPE....hmmm I will have to try this... Is it harder to test progress this way? The zones won't be of much use to you if you don't have a HR monitor. The monitor allows you to check in periodically throughout a workout (without stopping) to see if you are staying in the targeted zone. It's tough to check your pulse in the middle of a run or bike ride.... It definitely sounds like RPE is the way to go for you right now. It's not perfect, and sometimes you'll push harder or easier than what might be "ideal", but it will put you in the right general area. Plus, it's just one less thing to obsess about during your run or bike ![]() Re: the second bolded point, you can certainly measure progress training by RPE. One way would be to compare your pace on the same course under similar conditions at the same level of perceived effort. As you get more fit, you will be faster at the same level of effort. Edited by jsnowash 2010-09-17 4:49 PM |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() jamiej - 2010-09-17 2:04 PM HR training, IMHO, is basically useless. But, Dr.'s orders are orders I guess. Maybe you should ask him/her how he/she arrived at that number? If you can ignore HR I would train on pace. You can use something like mcmillan running or daniels vdot formula based on recent past races. Buy yourself a cheap Garmin (like a 305 etc) and train on pace. For the bike, use a powermeter. HR is such a DEpendent measure that it's hard to judge anything with it. Again, IMHO only. Totally disagree. HR can be a very valuable training and racing tool. I use it and somehow that "usless" measure has served me, and MANY others, very well. With consistent and correct use, many of the variabilities can be accounted and adjusted for. Pace can be problematic dependent on conditions as well. Edited by bryancd 2010-09-17 5:00 PM |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() "Pace is pace" is inaccurate as well. That implies that a flat run in 50 degree weather should be at the same pace as an uphill run at 100 degrees. RPE is RPE is a more accurate statement. |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Av8rTx - 2010-09-17 4:19 PM kc_racer - 2010-09-17 11:22 My max HR is 240...and no, that is not using a heart rate monitor. That is old school checking the pulse in my neck Pulse and heart rate are not always the same thing! Also, Reading the heart rate this way can be inaccurate if you count not only the pulse at your carotid artery but a possible pulse in your finger tips-they will not always be in sync See, that is why I thought I may be doing something incorrectly, wondering about the accuracy of this... |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() jasonmkennedy - 2010-09-17 4:25 PM As a side note to the OP, my heart ranges tend to be on the high end as well. At age 40 my max hr is up around 210-220ish and my Vo2 max is around 180, so don't be to put off by the higher numbers. I find that the higher range of heart rates do effect nutrition a bit and I end up putting a few extra electrolytes in my body for longer efforts. Cheers, -jason Very interesting....other than the extra electrolytes, how do you modify your diet? Extra calories, carbs? |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() COSkiGirl - 2010-09-17 4:27 PM kc_racer - 2010-09-17 3:24 PM Donto - 2010-09-17 4:01 PM op, If you want to use HR get a HR monitor and use it properly starting with the field tests. If you want to go by pace range based on a run race, use something like McMillan's run calculator. Then there's good old RPE which you can find on the net or there's a table at the end of the field test link above. There are so many factors involved with the environment and how you are feeling on the moment that nothing is concrete. However if you measuring such a high HR using a 10 sec count at the end of a run I'd suggest slow down unless it was a hard effort run on purpose! That's a great run calculator, thanks for sharing. I would like to do a field test but not willing to purchase an HR monitor yet just for that purpose, or for continued use yet either. Being a newbie, I have a long list of items on my wish list that I need to work through first ![]() The 240 was most certainly after a butt kicking 2 mile run. Pushed it hard enough that I wanted to throw up and felt that I absolutely no questions asked , gave it all I had. BUT, with that said, I have also counted the 240 after climbing a really tough hill out of the saddle, AND during a 9:00 min mile pace during the run portion of a brick. I would like to think that I am pushing myself too hard, but relatively speaking, I am too slow to be so maxed, argh!!!! ![]() I don't understand the bolded. Just because you're slow doesn't mean you're not working to YOUR max. If you're not willing to buy a HR monitor then drop the HR training plan because it's useless periodic measuring or measuring at the end of your runs isn't going to do you much good. Go by RPE.
bolded: I get your point, it is just me being impatient |
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