IMKY Start Protocol...

I agree, it needs to be a mass start. . .  It is stupid (yes, stupid) that it is still a Time Trial start. . only reason is the first year the current was so fast that they did it for safety reasons I guess, and just decided to stick with it for 2008 and now into 2009. 

I have heard 3000 entrants or around there, but how many show up might be a different story.  There are suppose to be two entry points into the water this year, so they anticipate having everyone in the water by 7:30 AM or somewhere really close to there. 

I want to start towards the back so no worries if others want to get up to the front. 

I did a sprint tri this morning in the TN river and it was a TT start on 5 second intervals.  I have done this race 7 times over the years and love the TT start format.  I've also done IMKY twice and had wonderful swim experiences.  I've done an Oly tri in Chattanooga a couple of years in the TN river and it too is a TT start.  Logistically it's difficult to do a mass start in a river with a current.  In Louisville they were going to have barges in the river to jump off of.  I'm sure this is not cheap and probably requires special permits from the Corp of Engineer or whomever regulates traffic on the river.

I've never done a mass-start IM but from what I've read, it introduces an unecessay risk of getting kicked in the face.  I've done a HIM that had AG wave starts and I don't see much differnece in that and a TT start.  It certainly reduced the washing machine of bodies all vieing for postion.  I'm not worried about getting kicked in the head as I've been in enough fights in my life to know my head can take quite a pounding.  But I'm a big guy and have a lot of power in my kick and I worry about kicking some gal right in the face and either knocking her out, breaking her jaw or cheekbone or just ruining her day.

I should caveat this with the fact that I do triathlons for fun, not for competition.  I love to swim and there is no greater feeling in the world than an OWS in the warm waters of the TN or Ohio river.  The idea of spending the frist 15+ minutes of an OWS fighting other swimmers, simming over, under, around etc takes the fun out of swimming.  It also introduces an element of 'luck' to the competition.  What I mean is, maybe the best swimmer got kicked in the face and it broke his goggles but you were lucky enought to avoid getting kicked.

To the OP question about the 17 hrs...I agree this could give a BOPer additonal time to finish the race since the 17 hr cut-off is based on the time the last person enters the water.   So if one is concerned about making the 17 hr cut-off, it behooves them to get to the starting line early.  Personally, I'd rather them put people in the water per thier race number.  This would at least put you close to the AGers you are 'competing' with and maybe mitigate some of the concern that you don't really know where you are in the race relative to others in your AG.

~Mike 

Yes, the 17 hrs is based on when the last person enters the water.

The IMKY RD told me last fall that they had increased the number of slots for IMKY based on the large number of DNS's they had in the two previous years.  I wondered why IMKY would have a higher % of DNS than other IM events and the only think I could come up with is the heat.  Peak training time for IMKY is June, July and August and maybe people decide they really don't want to go for a 100 mile bike training ride when it's 103 degress out?

Yeah, I've heard your 'tradition' argument before but I'm just not anxious to risk getting kicked in the teeth (or kicking someone else in the face) for tradition's sake.   Besides, tradition only has meaning if one knows the history of IM...I do not...nor do I really car what the history is.  To me, it's just a race.  Period.

~Mike

Yeah, that would suck if you were a 16:30 DNF. 

Let's see....say you have 2,500 people show up on race day.  With 2 lines, 1250 per line.  If you put them in at 2 second intervals, it would take 625 seconds to get everyone in.  So a little over 10 minutes and everyone is in the water swimming.

~Mike

bryancd - 2009-08-23 6:03 PM

ChrisM - 2009-08-23 5:51 PM

bryancd - 2009-08-23 3:46 PM

Jake1008 - 2009-08-23 5:34 PM A further point of contention is a change in the overall cut-off time this year. The cut-off is 17 hours from the time the FIRST person enters the water. ie midnight regardless. They have increased to two entry points to help with this, but it's still possible to be an early starter 16:45 "you're an ironman" and a later starter 16:30 dnf.

Oh, well maybe I heard right then. That's what I understood the new rule to be.

You are correct.  They changed the rules this year. 

Wow. Regardless of my personal opinion about the TT start, this is FUBAR. This race seriously need to reconsider it's location if they can't facilitate a more equitable start. So now BOP'ers, who have every right to have the full 17 hour time, will have no choice but to start as early as possible, surrounded by faster swimmers. What a mess.

This about this Bryan, in 10 minutes you have everyone in the water swimming.  Compare this to a 2500 cluster f of swimmers with those BOPers having all the fast swimmers swimming right over the top of them.

~Mike 

In 2007 and 2008 it was either 2 or 3 seconds....can't remeber which now.   They had one mat to cross over but two jumping points so it was easy to find a place to jump in.

~Mike

I am one of the 'slower athletes' and I love the format and don't think it's unfair.  Swim times in Louisville are generally faster than other venues becuase of the advantage of the current doing down river for about 2/3rds of the swim.

Every IM is different and that is a good thing.  LP has some killer hills.  AZ has some challanging winds.  Some swims allow wetsuits, some don't.  Some are in the cool of the fall and some are in the heat of the summer. 

At any rate, if a 'slow swimmer' is concerned about missing the 17 hr cut off becuase of the TT start, they should have selected a different venue!  But in truth, I think a BOPer swim time in Louisville will be faster than almost any other M-dot IM.  Of couse, I've never do any other IM than IMKY so what do I know?!  I'm gonna do WI next year....I'll get back to you about this TT debate next Sept.

~Mike

It is virtually impossible to do a mass start in the Ohio River. Even waves would be a logistical nightmare with the currents. I have to agree with Bryan that a new swim location should be addressed to accommodate a mass start. That being said, IMKY is selling out even with people knowing about the TT start so I doubt that a new location will be looked at.

It was frustrating to say the least last year at the start. I got in and out of transition early last year to try and get to the start early only to find out people had family members "hold their spot" at the start. Some got there at 3:30 am!!! That is BS!!! I got down there around 5:30 and had over 500 people in front of me. The dock was soaked in urine from people just peeing while standing in line for fear of losing their spot if they went to the bathroom. (I was one of them but I did move to the grass)

When I do this race again I will take my time getting to the start and start toward the end of the line. Once you round the buoy you have the entire Ohio River to spread out to avoid congestion. (remember the fastest current is in the middle, although last year there was almost no current.)

It does stink to move the cut-off to when the first person enters the water. Although with 2 entry points they could get people in the water in 15 min or maybe even less. There was no set time between swimmers entering the water. They were entering as fast as you could go across the timing mat.

Had to correct my math before someone else did.  I got to thinking about this and realized something was wrong.  With 1250 per line and them going in every 2 seconds, it would take 2500 seconds, not 625 seconds as I stated above.  (I divided when I should have multiplied - oopes).   So if they did it on 2 second intervales it would take about 50 minutes to get everyone in the water.  If they used a 1 second interval, 25 minutes.

I gotta agree with Bob, it has sold out 3 years running so they are not likely to change the swim to a lake swim.  My thinking is, if you don't like TT start, don't do IMKY.  I hate that they changed the rule to make the 17 hrs started with the first person instead of the last person but I guess the city of Louisville wants their streets back at midnight so they can send the volunteers home and send the cops to the donut shop.  :-)

To me the very best part of an IM is when I finally hit the wate!  All the pre-race anxiety just melts away and I'm at peace with just me and the water.  It would be a different experience to jump into a churning of bodies.

~Mike