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Argghh! Weight-loss does not make sense.
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 2009-05-11 8:47 AM |
Member  135  |  Subject: Argghh! Weight-loss does not make sense.Trying forever to help a female friend who wants to lose a few pounds. Intense exercise 5 x per week and 1400 calories per day wasn't helping, so I figured she was too low of calories. So, I upped her to 1800 calories, and she has worked out nearly 1.5 hours per DAY for the past 3 days. What do you know, she has GAINED 2 pounds. She is, understandably, quite frustrated with me, and thinks the increase in calories did it. Argh. I'm beginning to think the calories-in/calories-out model, which has always worked perfectly for me, is completely bunk. What do I tell her now?? |
| 2009-05-11 9:05 AM in reply to: #2142843 |
Expert 966  Decatur | Subject: RE: Argghh! Weight-loss does not make sense. most women I know are optimal around 1600 calories. I think her calorie intake is 200 too high. |
| 2009-05-11 9:10 AM in reply to: #2142843 |
Elite 3471  Evergreen, CO | Subject: RE: Argghh! Weight-loss does not make sense. After an intense training weekend I gain weight even tho I don't take in more calories. I've read it's water gain. Over time I see weight loss tho if I don't overeat to compensate. The only other thing I would suggest which she may be doing already is eat several small meals rather than 3 American-size meals. |
 2009-05-11 9:28 AM in reply to: #2142843 |
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| 2009-05-11 10:12 AM in reply to: #2142843 |
| Extreme Veteran 451 Stoughton, WI | Subject: RE: Argghh! Weight-loss does not make sense. What wgraves said. Go more by measurements of the body than weight. Upper arms (flexed), chest, waist, hips, upper thighs. I've only lost 7# in almost 2 months, but I've lost a few inches. Clothes are looser for sure. I need to put another hole in the belt. |
| 2009-05-11 10:32 AM in reply to: #2142843 |
| Member 135 | Subject: RE: Argghh! Weight-loss does not make sense. Thanks, those are both good points. I've notice water gain when I go from a fasted state over a few days to a normal calorie intake, and if she was too low before, and then went up to an appropriate intake, then I could imagine that would happen. But also, she has both increased intensity and duration in the weight room AND increased calories, which is the exact formula for increasing muscle mass. Thanks for the thoughts, sometimes it helps to have other people look at the problem. I'll see if she is willing to do some tape measurements then relying on a scale. |
| 2009-05-11 10:33 AM in reply to: #2142843 |
| Expert 1163 | Subject: RE: Argghh! Weight-loss does not make sense. I agree that if she's getting frustrated over a 1.5 lb gain over 3 days, she should stop weighing herself. Go by measurements instead, and maybe weight once a month. You can't see REAL gains/ losses that quickly. FWIW, I lost a ton of weight eating around 1800 calories/day (eating 5-6x a day instead of 3, like someone else suggested). It depends on how much she weighs now, what her body fat percentage is, and what kinds of exercises she's doing. When I started lifting weights, I didn't lose that much weight, but I lost about 2 dress sizes. Oh, and adding higher intensity intervals helped too. Quality of her diet could be a factor, too. I found it's easier for me to lose weight eating more unprocessed foods (whole grains, veggies, lean proteins, etc) even if I go over my calories, rather than if I eat bars, prepackaged meals, and snacky things. |
| 2009-05-11 10:40 AM in reply to: #2142843 |
| Expert 749 Oakland, Fl | Subject: RE: Argghh! Weight-loss does not make sense. Also, dont forget that the body naturally fluctuates weight. There is usually about a 5lb range. If she is close to her cycle, she will gain weight. Try to weigh only once a week. Measurements are best. |
| 2009-05-11 10:40 AM in reply to: #2143192 |
| Expert 1456 Central New Jersey | Subject: RE: Argghh! Weight-loss does not make sense. Your body is like a bank. An out of state check takes approximately 7 days to clear the bank. We need to give our body 7 to 10 days to "cash" the changes we've made. She changed calories in, changed intensity, and duration. Body needs to adjust. Having lost 73 1/2 pounds I KNOW the frustration, she needs to STOP weighing herself daily (weekly) and body measurements are better guages! |
| 2009-05-11 11:00 AM in reply to: #2142843 |
| New user 56 | Subject: RE: Argghh! Weight-loss does not make sense. This is exactly what I went through. I was training for a HIM and exercised about 3 hours a day three days a week and on the other two days I usually ran 4 or 5 miles. I weigh 265 so I had plenty to lose. I never lost a pound. I was real careful with my diet and did the carbs protien fat balance like you should. I ate the same thing everyday so I know it was right and still I didn't lose a pound. I went to my doctor and had all my bloodwork done and he said try laying off the carbs and see what happens. I went on a chicken breast and vegtable diet. My carbs are limited. This is kinda like atkins. Some call it a slow carb diet. Finally I have started losing weight and I actually feel better. It takes a week to get adjusted but it is worth it. BTW you can eat all you want! |
| 2009-05-11 5:19 PM in reply to: #2142843 |
| Expert 735 Chatham, Ontario | Subject: RE: Argghh! Weight-loss does not make sense. Could be her choices in foods. I like the low glicemic approach (whole wheat breads, pastas, etc). |
| 2009-05-11 5:19 PM in reply to: #2143304 |
| Expert 735 Chatham, Ontario | Subject: RE: Argghh! Weight-loss does not make sense. eitek1 - 2009-05-11 12:00 PM This is exactly what I went through. I was training for a HIM and exercised about 3 hours a day three days a week and on the other two days I usually ran 4 or 5 miles. I weigh 265 so I had plenty to lose. I never lost a pound. I was real careful with my diet and did the carbs protien fat balance like you should. I ate the same thing everyday so I know it was right and still I didn't lose a pound. I went to my doctor and had all my bloodwork done and he said try laying off the carbs and see what happens. I went on a chicken breast and vegtable diet. My carbs are limited. This is kinda like atkins. Some call it a slow carb diet. Finally I have started losing weight and I actually feel better. It takes a week to get adjusted but it is worth it. BTW you can eat all you want! How was your energy level with the carbs? |
| 2009-05-11 8:20 PM in reply to: #2143192 |
| Pro 3730 NorCal | Subject: RE: Argghh! Weight-loss does not make sense. CGunz - 2009-05-11 8:32 AM Thanks, those are both good points. I've notice water gain when I go from a fasted state over a few days to a normal calorie intake, and if she was too low before, and then went up to an appropriate intake, then I could imagine that would happen. But also, she has both increased intensity and duration in the weight room AND increased calories, which is the exact formula for increasing muscle mass. Thanks for the thoughts, sometimes it helps to have other people look at the problem. I'll see if she is willing to do some tape measurements then relying on a scale. Other than the scale/measurements.....taking pictures is wonderful! I have been taking pics since October and it really is nice to look back and SEE the changes! |
| 2009-05-12 7:42 AM in reply to: #2144377 |
| New user 56 | Subject: RE: Argghh! Weight-loss does not make sense. tabbs - 2009-05-11 5:19 PM eitek1 - 2009-05-11 12:00 PM This is exactly what I went through. I was training for a HIM and exercised about 3 hours a day three days a week and on the other two days I usually ran 4 or 5 miles. I weigh 265 so I had plenty to lose. I never lost a pound. I was real careful with my diet and did the carbs protien fat balance like you should. I ate the same thing everyday so I know it was right and still I didn't lose a pound. I went to my doctor and had all my bloodwork done and he said try laying off the carbs and see what happens. I went on a chicken breast and vegtable diet. My carbs are limited. This is kinda like atkins. Some call it a slow carb diet. Finally I have started losing weight and I actually feel better. It takes a week to get adjusted but it is worth it. BTW you can eat all you want! How was your energy level with the carbs? |
| 2009-05-12 7:42 AM in reply to: #2144377 |
| New user 56 | Subject: RE: Argghh! Weight-loss does not make sense. tabbs - 2009-05-11 5:19 PM eitek1 - 2009-05-11 12:00 PM This is exactly what I went through. I was training for a HIM and exercised about 3 hours a day three days a week and on the other two days I usually ran 4 or 5 miles. I weigh 265 so I had plenty to lose. I never lost a pound. I was real careful with my diet and did the carbs protien fat balance like you should. I ate the same thing everyday so I know it was right and still I didn't lose a pound. I went to my doctor and had all my bloodwork done and he said try laying off the carbs and see what happens. I went on a chicken breast and vegtable diet. My carbs are limited. This is kinda like atkins. Some call it a slow carb diet. Finally I have started losing weight and I actually feel better. It takes a week to get adjusted but it is worth it. BTW you can eat all you want! How was your energy level with the carbs? My energy level the first week was crap when I went to exercise. I just wasn't feeling it. It could also be the fact that I laid off of training for a month after my HIM. Now I am fine. I went and ran last night for about an hour and felt great. I see no difference in energy levels than when I ate all the carbs. My diet is kind of simple. If it's not a vegtable like cauliflower, or broccolli or salad or something like that I don't really eat it. I get my protien from chicken breasts and sometimes I eat red meat. I am not a fan of beans but if I were I would eat them too. It's kind of like a caveman diet. For instance last night for dinner I had a chicken breast, 1 can of asparagus spears, 1/2 cup of marinated mushrooms and a salad. This was a tasty meal and I can have all that I want and still lose weight. For a sweet treat drink crystal light. It tastes just like koolaid, no diet taste. Short of the potato there really aren't that many carb rich natural foods that folks eat on a daily basis. Almost all of your carbs have to be processed in one way or another. Your body was meant to function on the foods that I described above. Keep in mind you really miss the carbs up front but after that it's no problem. It is impossible to over eat like this as well. I mean it is impossible. Most of the time your hunger gets satisfied and you get tired of eating and stop. It's that simple. The carbs make you over eat. If you do break down and eat a cup of icecream it's no big deal, just know that you are going to crave that stuff for a day or two. The biggest difference is in the way I feel emotionally. I used to be kind of short tempered. Almost everything aggravated me in someway or another. After I changed my diet that vanished. I am in a good mood all the time and nothing bothers me. Everytime I break down and eat a little something sweet on the weekend it is followed by a bad mood. I know that the sugars/simple carbs are messing with my moods somehow. I don't know how but they are. Edited by eitek1 2009-05-12 8:12 AM |
| 2009-05-12 6:17 PM in reply to: #2142843 |
| Regular 95 Oregon City, Oregon | Subject: RE: Argghh! Weight-loss does not make sense. I want to "weigh" in with a differing opinion on how frequently to weigh yourself. I'm a strong believer in weighing daily if you're serious about weight loss. Your body weight fluctuates too much to count on a weekly or monthly weigh in, IMHO. My weight can easily vary by as much as five pounds based on yesterday's food consumption, salt intake, workout level, etc. All of these factors can mask your true weight loss/gain if you're only weighing yourself monthly. Weighing daily allows you to see trends and understand how your body reacts to different consumption, fitness levels, and normal cycles. I also monitor body fat percent. A stable weight with a decreasing BF% is something to be happy about. A weight decrease with no drop in BF% is something to be concerned about. Watching one without the other is worse than not watching them at all. Again, IMHO. You didn't tell us her height/weight. So 1800 calories may or may not be appropriate. It doesn't seem unreasonable if she's truly getting 1.5hrs/day of activity. |
| 2009-05-21 1:48 PM in reply to: #2146990 |
Champion 8766 Evergreen, Colorado | Subject: RE: Argghh! Weight-loss does not make sense. You didn't tell us her height/weight. So 1800 calories may or may not be appropriate. It doesn't seem unreasonable if she's truly getting 1.5hrs/day of activity. That's exactly what I was going to say. You can't just arbitrarily slap a calorie number on someone. I weigh about 190 and average probably 1.5 hours of activity a day too...and I'm eating 2300 calories to lose 2 lbs a week. She may actually be starving her body and it's reacting by hanging on to every calorie it can get. I also believe in the "it's okay to weigh yourself every day" philosophy AS LONG AS you don't let the inevitable ups/downs throw you into emotional turmoil. I think if I only weigh myself once a week it's impossible to see if that one day is an outlier. Daily weigh-ins will show a TREND. Sure, weekly weigh-ins can also show a trend...but you need more data points to see the trend. Two points can't make a trend. They make a straight line. Seven points can make a trend. |
| 2009-05-21 2:41 PM in reply to: #2142843 |
| New user 60 Chandler | Subject: RE: Argghh! Weight-loss does not make sense. Some good thoughts above; I would recommend to anyone who has this problem - many of us - to seek out a few professional pieces to the equation; A resting metabolic rate determined by metabolic testing not from a formula and a session with a registered dietician who works with athletes, esp the endurance variety; weight loss/gain/maintenance is very complicated with numerous variables - too much to throw any single number out there; the issues about body weight fluctuations with training and diet changes are relevant so there are plusses and minuses to freq weighing; I would also caution anyone to not listen to the lay press and one should really push their doctor on thier own knowledge in the area - you may be very surprised to hear your doc perpetuate myths; I am a physician and since 2007 have put to practice what I had preached, got active and have invested much time researching this topic; I lost over 100 pounds, took up marathons and just did my first Olympic tri last weekend; there is so much misinformation out there esp when it comes to helping with training triathletes; good luck to us all  |
| 2009-05-23 9:51 AM in reply to: #2142843 |
| Master 1531 TORONTO | Subject: RE: Argghh! Weight-loss does not make sense. I'm sort of going through this battle and have to say I'm completely confused and feel as though I've forgotten how to eat right. I am 5'6" and have a small to medium sized frame (based on my wrist circumference). Last summer with regular workouts I weighed 135. Over the winter I went up my natural 5 pounds but then have gained another 5. I eat anywhere between 1200-1500 calories per day and I don't feel hungry. I try to eat a diet with 2 of everything - 2 servings of fruit, 2x4oz servings of lean protein (not processed and red meat 1x/week), I cut back on carbs and only eat low GI mostly flatbreads, bran cereal vs. bread, pasta and rice. And I let myself eat unlimited veggies but no corn, potatoes etc. You can see from my log that I workout often burning around 300-500 calories per day with 1-2 days off per week. I haven't been doing resistance training at all lately (one difference from last summer). After having no positive results I decided to increase my calories thinking maybe my body was in starvation mode - the result? I've gained another 2 pounds!!?? It seems incredulous to me that I can work out with higher intensities for longer durations, eating better than last summer and be now 12 pounds heavier? I'm going to keep it up for a week but if the gain continues I will go back to the 1200 and hope for the best. Any suggestions would be *GREATLY* appreciated! My friends say it's age - but I haven't even hit 40 yet!!! Pretty drastic results for only being 1 year older! |
| 2009-05-26 6:29 PM in reply to: #2142843 |
| Expert 966 Decatur | Subject: RE: Argghh! Weight-loss does not make sense. I'll admit that I don't thinkk I eat enough. I'm excersing ~5-6x per week with at least 2 two a days in there. And I'm hoovering at 1600 approximately. at 276, I think I should increase my intake to 18-1900 calories. but honestly, I'm scared. I've got a set 1221 calories daily and then i've added maybe 2-3 hundred calories and just scared to add more. After thursday, I'm going to add 600 calories in snacks and see what happens. I'm just seeing how this goes. |
| 2009-05-28 1:37 PM in reply to: #2142960 |
| Master 2167 Livonia, MI | Subject: RE: Argghh! Weight-loss does not make sense. wgraves7582 - 2009-05-11 9:28 AM I don't buy into the Weight thing. Could be muscle mass increasing. Do her clothes fit looser than they did originally? That is how I measure my weight and not really paying attention to the number on the scale. Amen to that!! Also, it's not just about how many calories....I'd like to know WHERE they're coming from. If she's got a diet that's 60% plus carbs, she'll hold onto that extra body fat even at 1200 cal/day. How about the white demons--sugar, white flour, white rice? Eating any of those daily will almost guarantee you'll hold onto body fat. |
| 2009-05-28 3:08 PM in reply to: #2178998 |
| Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: Argghh! Weight-loss does not make sense. noelle1230 - 2009-05-28 2:37 PM Amen to that!! Also, it's not just about how many calories....I'd like to know WHERE they're coming from. If she's got a diet that's 60% plus carbs, she'll hold onto that extra body fat even at 1200 cal/day. How about the white demons--sugar, white flour, white rice? Eating any of those daily will almost guarantee you'll hold onto body fat. Sorry, but there is no evidence that there is any truth to that. To the OP, measuring over a 3 day span is counter-productive. There are many things that can account for that with water retention differences being the most likely. Especially post some harder workouts. Her body is tring to recover and storing extra fluids. Pick a plan and stick with it for several weeks. Track progress over time. Make adjustments from there based on results. |
| 2009-05-28 3:53 PM in reply to: #2179316 |
| Master 2167 Livonia, MI | Subject: RE: Argghh! Weight-loss does not make sense. JohnnyKay - 2009-05-28 3:08 PM noelle1230 - 2009-05-28 2:37 PM Amen to that!! Also, it's not just about how many calories....I'd like to know WHERE they're coming from. If she's got a diet that's 60% plus carbs, she'll hold onto that extra body fat even at 1200 cal/day. How about the white demons--sugar, white flour, white rice? Eating any of those daily will almost guarantee you'll hold onto body fat. Sorry, but there is no evidence that there is any truth to that. To the OP, measuring over a 3 day span is counter-productive. There are many things that can account for that with water retention differences being the most likely. Especially post some harder workouts. Her body is tring to recover and storing extra fluids. Pick a plan and stick with it for several weeks. Track progress over time. Make adjustments from there based on results. No evidence? I use the fact that I've trained about 50 women with the exact same problem and cutting out the white stuff was the only thing that got them to their weight loss goals as evidence enough. I'm just giving you what has worked for most of the women I know struggling to losing body fat despite moderate calorie consumption and 5-6 days/week of good, solid workouts. Where your calories are coming from makes a huge difference!! You can't expect to eat 1500 cals of chocolate cake versus 1500 cals of fruits/veggies/lean meats/whole grains and see the same results. No way in heck!!!!!! Also, is she weight training? Most of the girls I train notice a huge boost to fat burning when adding resistance training into their routines. |
| 2009-05-29 2:53 PM in reply to: #2179491 |
| Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: Argghh! Weight-loss does not make sense. noelle1230 - 2009-05-28 4:53 PM JohnnyKay - 2009-05-28 3:08 PM No evidence? I use the fact that I've trained about 50 women with the exact same problem and cutting out the white stuff was the only thing that got them to their weight loss goals as evidence enough. I'm just giving you what has worked for most of the women I know struggling to losing body fat despite moderate calorie consumption and 5-6 days/week of good, solid workouts. Where your calories are coming from makes a huge difference!! You can't expect to eat 1500 cals of chocolate cake versus 1500 cals of fruits/veggies/lean meats/whole grains and see the same results. No way in heck!!!!!! Also, is she weight training? Most of the girls I train notice a huge boost to fat burning when adding resistance training into their routines.noelle1230 - 2009-05-28 2:37 PM Amen to that!! Also, it's not just about how many calories....I'd like to know WHERE they're coming from. If she's got a diet that's 60% plus carbs, she'll hold onto that extra body fat even at 1200 cal/day. How about the white demons--sugar, white flour, white rice? Eating any of those daily will almost guarantee you'll hold onto body fat. Sorry, but there is no evidence that there is any truth to that. To the OP, measuring over a 3 day span is counter-productive. There are many things that can account for that with water retention differences being the most likely. Especially post some harder workouts. Her body is tring to recover and storing extra fluids. Pick a plan and stick with it for several weeks. Track progress over time. Make adjustments from there based on results. I'm glad "cutting out the white stuff" helped those women. My guess is that they cut out calories by dropping those items. And since you added resistance training, they burned more. Magic. I'm not saying that making some dietary changes can't help someone struggling with weight loss. But it is generally because those changes result in actually eating fewer calories. Most people do not do a good job of accounting for everything they eat in a a day and underestimate the impact their "little cheats" have. A diet 60% carbs would not be out of line for someone doing a lot of endurance training. I agree that there are "better" carbs than sugar and refined flour, but calorie for calorie they don't make you gain more weight or "hold" more fat. |
| 2009-06-01 10:51 AM in reply to: #2142843 |
| Master 2167 Livonia, MI | Subject: RE: Argghh! Weight-loss does not make sense. I've actually had clients (men and women) make absolutely no changes to their diet other than replacing white for wheat, and replacing white sugar with fruit or other non-sugar snacks. Their calorie intake stayed the same yet they lost weight. I've been suggesting this to people over the course of many years and it usually always does the trick. Like I said, it's not as simple as cals in/cals out. The way the body metabolizes the calories we eat affects how likely the body is to store the calories as fat. For a more comprehensive explanation of what happens in the body I suggest this: http://www.glycemicindex.com/ |
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