Lance and USADA

I didn't read the report, and I also really wanted to believe that Lance was clean, but the statements from George and Levi sealed it for me.  I don't see any way that those guys would drop a dime on Lance and themselves if it wasn't true.

But it did confirm what I thought previously--if Lance did dope, he was the most amazing doper ever...

John, I respect you starting this thread.  I have known (still know) some folks that could literally watch Lance dope in their living room, and still deny it.

I've been thinking about reading the whole thing...is it a good read?

Maybe they'll make it into a movie, and Lance can play himself to make a few bucks??

Of anyone that would have started a thread on this, you are probably one of the few that I wouldn't second guess their take on the document.  I too am saddened in my heart.  Thanks for writing your opinion.

NM, here it is... the full USADA investigation.

http://cyclinginvestigation.usada.org/

USADA doesn't test at the tour.  That would be the UCI under the auspices of the WADA.  USADA would only do the testing at races in the US ( like TOC ) or out of comp tests on riders from the US.

My friend said something that makes you think:

I'd happily live a lie and go through all of this if it meant raising £450m for cancer research 

I am in no way defending his actions, but it does make you think a bit.

It's typical legal stuff.  Read the affidavits, all the big names from US cycling over the past decade gave sworn testimony against L.A.,  those are the really intereting reads.  It shopws how wide spread, and how sophisticated the doping program is/was.

Remember that scene in "New Jack City" where Nino and his crew were feeding the homeless?

I was (am?) one of the biggest Armstrong supporters, and after reading the report and the attached affidavits, it is clear that this was not a witch hunt.  The evidence is overwhelming.  Also the allegation that L.A. "never" failed a drug test, isn't totally accurate.  There was a failed test for some PED that was explained away as a cream used for saddle sores, the UCI bought that explanation.  In several riders affidavits they specifically say that this explanation was B.S., that they U.S. Postal was using this drug as a PED.  There's also some pretty strong circumstantial evidence of bribery to make some positive tests go away.

What the evidence shows is that U.S Postal had a well thought out, well organized, well financed doping program for all of the years that L.A. won the TdF.  Not just him, but almost every single member of the U.S. Postal squad, not just used PED's, but was expected to use PED's by team managment and L.A.

There is also evidence of a wide spread and well organized attempt at a cover up.  This included acts of implicit intimidation, implicit threats, explicit threats and intimidation, and possible bribery.

Seriously the scope and professionality of the U.S. Postal doping scheme makes what occurred through operation Puerto and Festina look like small change and small time operations.

I agree that there are going to be people that suffer, but I don't think it's going to be pro cycling.  The real tragedy is the Livestrong foundation is going to suffer, and that's a shame.  Regardless of the doping allegations, L.A.'s work for cancer research is epic.  almost $600 million raised.  That's the real shame, the impact on the foundations ability to raise money.

Two things for me, the USADA has an 8yr statute of limitations, which it ignored in this case, making them what they are IMHO just after Lance.

Second, the STANDARD to determine doping is the test!! You can not just decide that the test is no longer the standard, its your rules!! Therefore NO FAILED TESTS means exactly that! If you wont abide by your own standards and rules while accusing someone else of not abiding by the rules that makes you out to be the hypocrit you are accusing them of being!

Im not saying if he did or didnt, the FACT is the Test is the STANDARD by which it is judged, without standing by that you have the lawlessness of the USADA!!

 EVERYONE of those guys who testfied they did it now deserve to also be banned for life, many of them FAILED the test, those who didnt now have their own words that convict them so they should be banned by that!

No, and no.

The test is just a tool.  Passing/failing the test is not determinative as to whether or not an athlete doped.

So if he "passed" the test because of bribing the testing official then that's OK?  A "passed" test is a "passed" test, regardless of how it was "passed"?

Look, I was a L.A. supporter, and I screamed the he never failed a test montra over and over.  Take the time to read the report, and especially the affidavit of his team mates.  He may have "passed" the tests, but it is clear, if not beyond a reasonable doubt, at least by clear and convincing evidence, that the tests that were "passed", were "passed" as a result of a very sophisticated doping protocal that included regular blood monitoring by a team physician in order to know when to dope, and how long certain PED's would stay in the system, and also how to avoid testing(Like dropping out of a race in order to avoid the anti-doping protocals at the end of a race),  how to beat testing (delaying post race tests, avoiding testers, taking EPO intervenously instead of subcutaniously, urinating just prior to tests and yes, bribery)

I was a HUGE L.A. fan and supporter.  But the USADA report and their evidence at least for me is overwhelming.

I was also used to rely upon the statute of limitations of USADA, and scream how unfair it was.  But when you read the report, and more importantly the affidavits of the riders on his team and others, there is no doubt that this was an ongoing enterprise that extended well after L.A.'s retirment, with continued efforts to hide, discredit, and intimidate those that sought to speak the truth.  Including the wives of riders that were going to come forward.

Read the report and form your own opinion after at least getting all  the information.  Read both sides, the USADA report and L.A.'s attorney's letters about the reports, and decide for yourself.  But at the very least get all the information.

1.  US Postal relied heavily on EPO, prior to there being a test for EPO.

2.  The Physician (Dr. Ferrari) that worked with L.A., and many of the TdF US Postal riders, did sophisticated blood testing to determine when, and how to dope, and focused on how to avoid testing methods.

3.  Dr. Ferrari determined when the first tests for EPO came out that those tests could detect subcutanious use of EPO, which was the standard method for using EPO at the time.  But the EPO testing method at the time could not detect EPO use interveniously.  So US Postal switched to using intervenious EPO.  (This isn't from USADA, this is from the affidavits of several riders)

4.  THe riders also used a method of watering down their blood prior to testing, using saline solutions to reduce the hematrocite (sp?) levels down to the top level of 50 permited by WADA and USADA. 

There's more, it's all in the report.