Serious Q: Down syndrome and abortion

Ohhh...this is too heavy for me today.

I'm with you on this one Possum.  I have two lovely adopted girls who I would not have if a decision had been made to abort them, for whatever reason.  I'm sure there are a zillion arguments in support of genetic testing, but I agree that it can be a real slippery slope. 

Although it is a different issue, I liken this debate to the "choose the sex of your child" debate.  I have had friends ask me why we didn't specifiy that we wanted a male when we adopted our second child.  My response was, because if my wife did get pregnant, we would not be choosing the gender, so why should we choose in this situation?  I am a firm believer in leaving it up to God.  As a result, I am the lone male in a house full of estrogen, but I'll take it any day of the week!

My sister refused prenatal testing because she said the results would change nothing.

We do not know what trials and tribulations our children will experience as they grow. We do not know what troubles they will know, what crimes they might commit, what glorious contributions they will make to society, whether they will know cancer or any debilitating disease, whether they will have an accident and be left in a vegetative state for the rest of their lives. We're not meant to know. We're meant to love our children.

The idea that our lives will be less charmed and easy because of our children is a given. If you want an easy life, don't have children. Our children were meant to make us pull our hair out in frustration - and make us better people because of it.

Children are a blessing, not a gift to be returned if we don't like what size or shape they come in.

Do a lot of down syndrome children get adopted?

I respect your feelings and beliefs here, but I have to say I don't like the judgement implicit in the posts - would I abort or urge abortion if I were in that situation? I would like to think no, that I am stronger than that. However, as none of us are qualified to make that type of decision for another, I would accept a persons right to make that choice - equally as slippery as genitic testing/forcasting would be forcing a down syndrome child on someone who can't or won't properly care for the child.

Abortion is legal - this holds true whether the child is genius or downs. 

First I have to say that the prenatal tests are not very accurate. My coworker was told that her first child was going to have Downs syndrome. Anthony was born perfectly fine. I would hate to think that she would have aborted a completely healthy child based on an incorrect test.

Second,  Happycow (Sheila) had the test done when she was pregnant with our second child WhatCanIBreakNowCow (Sean). Sean was born and was healthy. I stayed in the hospital until I knew Sheila and Sean were alright. The next morning I brought my daughter, DadYourEmbarrassingMeCow (Lauren) in to see her brother. After that I took her to school and went back to see Sheila. When I got to her room there was a Dr. talking to Sheila. He said "Are you the father?" "Please sit down". My heart fell through the floor. Sheila looked as pale as a ghost and in shock. He said he thought Sean had Downs but he wasn't sure. He had to run some test first. While he was running those tests, I went to the hospital library and checked out some  books. The only thing we were interested in was the life span of someone with Downs. The first thing we read was that they can live happy healthy lives well into there 80's. That was all we needed to know. The test came back positive for Downs and they sent a counselor into see us to make sure we were fine. We told her he was healthy and that was all we needed.

We are extremely lucky in that Sean is very high functioning and is completely healthy. He is an absolute kick in the pants and I don't anybody who hasn't fallen in love the little man. I have learned so much from Sean and how he looks at life. He loves everyone unconditionally and without question. So, I hate to disagree with the Buddists, but there is no way I am repaying a debt, I am being repayed.

(sean 2nd birthday1.jpg)

"The first thing we read was that they can live happy healthy lives well into there 80's. That was all we needed to know. The test came back positive for Downs and they sent a counselor into see us to make sure we were fine. We told her he was healthy and that was all we needed. "

"I hate to disagree with the Buddists, but there is no way I am repaying a debt, I am being repayed."

Thanks for sharing that, Tom!! He's a beautiful boy!!

I didn't like the implied message in the original post, likening a child to a debt, either. It doesn't sound very Buddhist to me. I think Buddha would have questioned the motivation of someone who was unhappy with their child, I can't see Buddha telling them they were paying a debt.

Do you even know anybody with Downs? My son doesn't need anymore attention than his sister. Once you factor in all the things a 7 year old girl requires, he needs even less.

Billions of dollars, Really? Where is that money for us? I haven't seen it. We still pay daycare like others and he goes to public school just like our neighbors. I am pretty sure his teacher isn't making millions, either. The difference from his class and the other classes is his class is smaller and he started school earlier (age 3)

Completely unaware of his existence? You really have no idea what you are talking about, do you?

It is difficult for me to write this, but here it is:

My son was born with Cerebral Palsy.  It was one of the absolute worst moments of my life when the doctor sat us down and told us the diagnosis.

He went through multiple medical procedures and wore leg braces as child.  He loves sports, but was never able to participate beyond T-ball and recreational youth soccer.  He never really could run well, but kind of hopped and shuffled along with his withered right leg.  He tried his heart out but just couldn't keep up with the other kids.   Naturally, he was often the target of cruel and insensitive teasing.  He will always walk with a limp.

The other side of the coin: 

In high school was he in the National Honor Society, 1st chair French horn in the band and a senior class officer.  He refused to apply for handicapped status when applying to the University of Florida; he insisted on getting accepted on his academic credentials.  He's currently a junior in the school of Building Construction which only accepts 50 students per year out of hundreds of applicants.  He loves to fish and can't wait to graduate next year so he can get a job and buy his own boat.   He has a bright personality, great sense of humor and brings home more cute girls from the beach than I ever knew existed.

In his entire life he has never once complained once about his handicap.   

He is my hero.  I often wonder how I was blessed to have such a great kid.

I am pro-choice, but I also truly believe that every life brings light into the world and helps to make it a better place.  We can't choose who we are or our circumstances.  We can only deal with what we have and be thankful.

I’m trying to recall the official medical condition that my brother-in-law was told his kid would have (not Downs).  Long and short of it is he was going to have two clubbed feet and two clubbed arms.  If he survived birth he would most likely be in a vegetative state and have to be feed via a GI tube.  Assuming that it survived birth the doctors estimated that it would live 18 months at the most.  They were told that the most humane thing to do would be to terminate the pregnancy. 

My sister-in-law chose to ignore the doctors and have the kid anyway.  She was from a small boon-dock town so she moved in with us for 3 months before she was due to be closer to a major hospital.  She gave birth 6 weeks premature and then lived with us for another 2 months while the kid was in the NIC ward.  As predicted all four limbs were clubbed and he had to be feed though a tube.

Five years and many surgeries latter both arms and legs look and function normally.  He has to wear braces when he walks/runs, but only 50% of the time now.  He has some speech problems but for the most part can get his point across.  He is still being feed by a tube but is able to eat some normal food.  They hope that he will be off the tube in a few years.  The plan is to start him in normal kindergarten next year.

I guess what I’m trying to say is that doctors can do all sorts of test pre-birth tesy but sometimes they are wrong in the quality of life predictions.  Willy is a cool kid, I’m glad his mom chose to not listen to the doctor.     

Thank you Possum and all, I'm not hurt. The reason I asked if she had known anybody with Downs is if you had asked me 4 years ago about what I thought a person with Downs is capable of, I don't know that I would have answered much different than she did. When we heard Sean had Downs all we could think of is that we were going to outlive our child. Once we found out they can live long happy lives, everything else was gravy.

Sheila's mom thought Sean would be a vegetable and my mom thought he would outgrow the Downs (too funny)

There are many people with Downs that are very high functioning. There is even a Dr. with Downs.

...Now I love my son, but if I showed up for surgery and they said "Here is your surgeon, Dr. Washington." well I would know I was in a Kaiser hospital (joke)

Tom....as usual, you are inspiring, rational, and dead-on with your thoughts...and you are a blessing to this community.

Possum...kudos to you for your insight.

Obviously many people on this thread are treading lightly.  I understand why. 

My wife and I have adopted a son with Down Syndrome.  He was 8 months old when placed with us.  He is now 10 years old.  I have two other children (not adopted).   To abort a child because he/she doesn't not meet a preconceived standard is just wrong.  Period. 

There are waiting lists in most states to adopt children with Down Syndrome.  We adopted our son from another state.  Take some time with special populations and you will not have any debate on this topic.  Each person brings a unique personality into this world and the world is missing something (many somethings) because of abortion. 

Please don't label me as a right-winger, I'm not.  I just have lots and lots of experience with Down Syndrome and (although never offended) find myself somehow offended by this thread. 

If you are going to abort because you feel your child with Down Syndrome will not have a good life - don't.  You have another option - I will adopt your child.    And I promise, he/she will have a quality life and contribute to the quality of life to those around him/her.

(Brand&Me.jpg)

(th_myangel.jpg)

aaahhh K (kaiser) mart medicine ..spoken as a true californian   Having met Sean he is awesome as are his parents and sister.  John (writebrained) you are a good man but I already figured that one out   I worked with mental and physically disabled adults for a year before I started med school and I have to say they taught me a lot about myself and accepting other people for what they are.