Living off the grid

I have an acquaintence (guy i knew in High School) who is almost entirely off the grid. He does have a hook-up, but uses it for back-up.

He built himself a geodesic dome, uses lots of Solar panels, kerosene lamps, and propane, wood heat. The last time I talked to him he was setting up a windmill to generate power. and more batteries for storage.

He started out living in two school busses.....

I think you have to wear a lot of tie dye

Nobody told me I'd have to wear tie dye!

I'm looking at building a Very Small House. Would include rainfall collection and cistern (but those aren't power issues).

House would be in NC, heating would be an issue for only several months out of the year. Plan on having lots of large, southern facing glass to heat up the place. Solar panels. Not sure what else though...

I like Opus' geothermal thingy, to keep costs down.

What about internet and phone? If you're gonna run from the law, that's the way they'd find you.

I have contemplated this myself (my house was originally built off the grid)

The house site is the key factor in whether or not it is a practical idea.

Lots of windows are a key design element, but they have their own maintanence issues. Refrigeration for food is a big issue , but propane powered fridges do exist. I use the springhouse that was originally attached to my house as a garden shed now.

My friend was using one of them originally. Having grown up in a house that was, for the most part, heated with wood, I can tell you that there are some major time and mess inconveniences associated with that, as well as environmental concerns.

I grew up with all our water coming from a spring as well. Again, gravity feed water systems have a lot of maintanence overhead...but they do work just fine. My mother is still using gravity/spring water, and she has to use a presure reducer to keep the kitchen sink from knocking glasses out of your hand.  I would be leary of relying on rainwater for my drinking water.

A very small house, designed around getting the most out of the new technology would certainly make going off the grid much more practical.

My dream isn't to go entirely off grid, but I'd like to supply most of my power sustainably. Here in Helena, I think that solar would be the way to go. In certain parts of the valley wind would work well too. We're looking to buy a house right now and have a strong preference for the passive solar places we've seen on the market.

The way we really want to go "off grid" is in regards to food. I want my animals to supply the fertilizer for a huge garden. Compost. Save seeds. Use an unheated greenhouse to extend my season. Raise, pasture, slaughter and butcher animals. Hunt. Gather.

Did you see the new Mother Earth News, Renee? Lots in there about off-grid living... 

Yes, I got my issue yesterday. Haven't opened it yet; got a non-fiction and a fiction on my nightstand.

Hey lookie there... an off-grid home in Colorado. Heh.

From what I've read about heating with wood, it really comes down to the kind of stove/furnace you use. It is a mess and an environmental issue if you don't have a very efficient stove, but there are some kick-a$$ stoves out there. Of course, $$$.

I would also not use rainwater for drinking water. And if you do, better have a back up system. However, I've thought of using it for gardens and other domestic uses. 

when you mean off the grid are you just referring to electrical, or also any type of water supply, petrol, etc.

I don't have the exact title of the magazine but it dealt more with farming equiptment.. A neighbor that has a ranch way out in no man's land texas has a few of the "portable" solar generators, along with  a small windmill  that can power just about anything.  These portable one are around 20-30 ft long on a trailer that he tows with his tractors..

they get quite a few of things to power up as they call it from that publication,,,I just can't remember the name..

like many things it can be done it's just how much are you willing to spend to achieve it

If you have the option, grid tied is best.  It is cheaper, you can back-feed the grid if you make more power than you use, and you don't have to have a big bank of toxic acid in your basement (batteries).   plus, public sewer and water systems are pretty nice to have.   There is no really economical way to build a septic system or a water well.   If you go totally off grid, you are likely looking at specialized appliances that run on DC power and possibly building a new house to make it so you do not require heating or cooling.  

So I guess for my ultimate 'green' house:

• Half solar, half wind power - grid tied with small battery backup
• Solar designed house that captures and stores heat in the winter and blocks heat in the summer
• Solar water heater, fed into normal water heater as back up
• Heat pump system for heating/cooling
• High efficency appliances. 

If I get the geothermal heat pump, I will have no need for wood burning stove. I'd rather not burn anything to get my heating needs.

I'd like to have a deep water well + cistern. No city water would be ideal, if I can swing it.

Jim, I haven't had a landline in about 5 years! I suppose I'd have to bite the bullet and get cable modem for internet. Or pirate my neighbor's signal.

I wonder if a windmill + solar panels would generate enough energy for my needs. It must just be a matter of mathematics, no?

This is a good point and why I would never go completely off grid unless I was living somewhere very remote and running power to it would be too costly.  

I meant off the power grid.

My own water supply is nice to have, but that wasn't my question (though we've veered off on that topic which is cool). I do want to build a cistern though, seems wasteful not to capture wastewater. I am thinking of coastal NC where I should have plenty of rainfall.

Yes, I expect that there are much more efficient stoves than the old Fisher Mama Bear we used. You still have to figure the chainsaw/pickup/logsplitter gas consumption and impact into the equation. I don't know the particulars, Wood may well end up being very green (ha) I do remember spending many  weekends as a kid going out ancdcutting, hauling, stacking, splitting, and cleaning up after firewood.

Not looking for opinions on whether I should go off the grid. My question was how best to go off the grid.

I read that DC power is converted to AC power by the use of an inverter, so I would not require special appliances.

I don't know much about the electrical aspects of it (my grandparents were real glad to see Mr. Roosevelt's boys come through stringing the wires) but  I am messing around with gravity fed water, and propane/wood appliances of various kinds even now (our power is often knocked out by weather, and traffic accidents knocking over the poles.

I know a little about these things

Nearly all the cell phone carriers offer a decent data service now.   Depending on your area you can get up to 1.5mps for about $50 a month.  

Windmill+ solar panels can definitely meet all your power needs.   You just need to either scale back your power, or buy a large enough system.  If someone want to run the average american lifestyle with no compromises, you can run upwards of $50K for a solar panel system to meet that demand.    Look at your power bill from the last few months, it should show you your power usage in KW.   You can use that to design your system.  Sometimes it is cheaper to swap out power sucking appliances rather than buy more solar panels.  Fridges, sir conditioners, and clothes dryers are the worst.  

 If you go completely off grid, you will need to have some batteries to store the sun from the day, so you can run lights at night.    Grid tied, you actually feed the grid during the day, so your meter runs backward.  At night you basically use as much (or less) power than you fed the grid during the day. 

Yeah, but if you have a cell phone, you're on the grid. I guess you could use pre-paid cell phones and pay cash for refills.

It CAN be converted, but you lose efficiency by converting to AC.  So you would be wasting power to do so.   The cost of solar panels is quite expensive - over $500 per 100w panel last time I checked.   It is often cheaper to run DC or propane powered stuff than try to add enough panels and batteries to run normal appliances.  

I apologize for providing more information than you asked for.  Most people would agree that using a grid tied system, if available, is a better solution - both economically and environmentally. 

On my current lot, I'd have to go with a combo of solar and wind for electrical.  I've toyed with the idea of a WVO burning generator instead of the wind.  I'm afraid I'd use it too much in the winter though.  We just don't get enough sun with the typical MI winter.

Heat would preferably be geothermal, but on this lot wood fired furnace is the way to go.

Someone asked about internet and phone.  In my area wireless internet is what I use, and I'd just use a cell phone.   Or, I'd just use a jumpbox and use on one of the wireless phone providers' high speed options.  Its not the most cost effective, but it works.

I like the cell phone carrier plan better than the cable tv modem idea.

I am pretty modest in my energy use (I think). I developed a habit of air drying my clothes years ago; I just like the smell of clothes on the linen lines - and the sound of them snapping in the wind.

I think for cooking, I might go with gas.

Probably my biggest energy use would be a refrigerator/freezer.

I prefer bare floors to carpet, so don't need a vacuum.

I also watch very little tv. In fact, I can watch Lost on the internet, as well as Meet the Press, the two shows I like to tune in for.