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2008-05-08 1:00 PM

Subject: From Bad Resumés to Poor Command of the Spoken Word

Tim's post reminded me of something that drives me NUTS - and that is the inarticulate speech of those who SHOULD know better. We all know it is incorrect to pronounce "nuclear" as "nukuler" (yet even the POTUS can't grasp this one), but I'm amazed at the poor diction, etc of some of the people I've worked with. My previous boss, who I love to death, but she's a lawyer and she says "fustrated" instead of "frustrated". Now, one of the other architects here also says it this way. They are both from New England and I know that this pronunciation is sometimes common in the dialect, so I will give them that. But still, they both have graduate-level degrees. The worst, though, is my current boss, also a lawyer, who is THE most inarticulate person I've ever met. And I don't mean simply the fact that he cannot form a coherent sentence. I mean his actual word articulation is pitiful. Example - instead of "comfortable", he says "comfable"...seriously. One would THINK that lawyers need to be some of the most articulate people out there. There are other examples, but this one sticks out in my head at the moment.

Does stuff like this drive anyone else nuts? I just feel like it sounds very unprofessional in a business environment if you cannot speak well. And why aren't these gaffs corrected by our teachers when we're young? I sort of feel like they should. We are quizzed in grammar, spelling, etc and are corrected when we make a mistake. It's not a lot different.



Edited by wurkit_gurl 2008-05-08 1:01 PM


2008-05-08 1:05 PM
in reply to: #1390269

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2008-05-08 1:20 PM
in reply to: #1390269

Champion
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Subject: RE: From Bad Resumés to Poor Command of the Spoken Word

Irregardless, some peoples come from parts where they does not talk good.

 

2008-05-08 1:20 PM
in reply to: #1390269

Veteran
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Subject: RE: From Bad Resumés to Poor Command of the Spoken Word
Yeah, this sort of thing drives me nuts, although I've always just chalked it up to a character flaw. For those of us who care about this sort of thing, I'd strongly recommend the book Eats Shoots and Leaves by Lynn Truss. Her focus isn't grammar, or spelling, or language in general, but punctuation. Her thesis is that increasingly poor punctuation is another harbinger of the decline of western civilization.

I happen to agree.
2008-05-08 1:24 PM
in reply to: #1390269

Champion
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Subject: RE: From Bad Resumés to Poor Command of the Spoken Word

I harp on this CONTINUOUSLY with my 5th grade step-daughter. Her spelling is horrendous. And I tell her that if she were to pronounce the words correctly to begin with, the spelling of those words would be much more intuitive.

The ones that really drive me batty are "probly" and "prolly".

2008-05-08 1:43 PM
in reply to: #1390269

Buttercup
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Subject: RE: From Bad Resumés to Poor Command of the Spoken Word
wurkit_gurl - 2008-05-08 2:00 PM

One would THINK that lawyers need to be some of the most articulate people out there.

One might think that but one would be operating under a false assumption.

A good lawyer - indeed, anyone engaged in the business of negotiating -  need not impress with a luxuriant vocabulary or Queen's English diction. Better to lull your audience or opponent into a false sense of superiority with vernacular, casual speech so that you can take advantage of their miscalculation of your intellectual powers.

Ever watch old episodes of the mumbling, bumbling Detective Columbo? We use him as an example of great sales technique when training recruiters to be non-threatening and allowing your candidate or client to assume they are in control. Works like a charm.

 



2008-05-08 1:45 PM
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2008-05-08 1:47 PM
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Slower Than You
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Subject: RE: From Bad Resumés to Poor Command of the Spoken Word
max - 2008-05-08 2:20 PM

Irregardless, some peoples come from parts where they does not talk good.

 



Stop that.
2008-05-08 1:52 PM
in reply to: #1390436

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2008-05-08 1:57 PM
in reply to: #1390427

Subject: RE: From Bad Resumés to Poor Command of the Spoken Word
Rynamite - 2008-05-08 2:45 PM
Renee - 2008-05-08 2:43 PM
wurkit_gurl - 2008-05-08 2:00 PM

One would THINK that lawyers need to be some of the most articulate people out there.

One might think that but one would be operating under a false assumption.

A good lawyer - indeed, anyone engaged in the business of negotiating -  need not impress with a luxuriant vocabulary or Queen's English diction. Better to lull your audience or opponent into a false sense of superiority with vernacular, casual speech so that you can take advantage of their miscalculation of your intellectual powers.

Ever watch old episodes of the mumbling, bumbling Detective Columbo? We use him as an example of great sales technique when training recruiters to be non-threatening and allowing your candidate or client to assume they are in control. Works like a charm.

 

Yep, always try to speak at about the same level as the person you're speaking to in negotiations/sales.

If you speak over their heads they'll either feel inferior, therefore uncomfortable, or feel as though you're a fake.

Unfortunately, everyone he speaks to speaks better than he does...at least around here.

I understand that taking different tones, etc with different clients is a necessity. However, I don't find any excuse to mispronounce common words - it just sounds ignorant and lazy. It's not a question of using flowery vocabulary.



Edited by wurkit_gurl 2008-05-08 2:00 PM
2008-05-08 2:02 PM
in reply to: #1390366

Giver
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Subject: RE: From Bad Resumés to Poor Command of the Spoken Word
briderdt - 2008-05-08 2:24 PM

The ones that really drive me batty are "probly" and "prolly".

OMG! I no wht u meen!

I just read an article about how text-speak is working its way in to the classroom, causing English teachers to spontaneously combust.



2008-05-08 2:13 PM
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Subject: RE: From Bad Resumés to Poor Command of the Spoken Word
2008-05-08 2:14 PM
in reply to: #1390481

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Subject: RE: From Bad Resumés to Poor Command of the Spoken Word
run4yrlif - 2008-05-08 2:02 PM
briderdt - 2008-05-08 2:24 PM

The ones that really drive me batty are "probly" and "prolly".

OMG! I no wht u meen!

I just read an article about how text-speak is working its way in to the classroom, causing English teachers to spontaneously combust.





(LolCatRenderer2.jpg)



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2008-05-08 2:39 PM
in reply to: #1390269

Extreme Veteran
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Subject: RE: From Bad Resumés to Poor Command of the Spoken Word
I've had that happen before.   Fortunately, my current boss is almost as articulate as the he manages. 
2008-05-08 2:57 PM
in reply to: #1390269

Champion
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Subject: RE: From Bad Resumés to Poor Command of the Spoken Word
I'm not sure, I'll ax around.
2008-05-08 2:58 PM
in reply to: #1390622

Subject: RE: From Bad Resumés to Poor Command of the Spoken Word

condorman - 2008-05-08 3:57 PM I'm not sure, I'll ax around.

Ooh, don't even get me started on that one...fortunately I don't know very many people who actually say that.



2008-05-08 3:02 PM
in reply to: #1390629

Slower Than You
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Subject: RE: From Bad Resumés to Poor Command of the Spoken Word
wurkit_gurl - 2008-05-08 3:58 PM

Ooh, don't even get me started on that one...fortunately I don't know very many people who actually say that.



You obviously don't travel to south Louisiana very much...

Here in GA, it's pronounced "I'll ast around" by the locals.
2008-05-08 3:12 PM
in reply to: #1390269

Extreme Veteran
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Subject: RE: From Bad Resumés to Poor Command of the Spoken Word
I am a lawyer. Try reading some lawyer's briefs, if you want to read inarticulate, syntactically challenged language.

EDIT: of course, I myself speak lolcat on occasion, but never in performance of mah lawyerly dooties...

Edited by lorabby 2008-05-08 3:13 PM
2008-05-08 3:20 PM
in reply to: #1390671

Subject: RE: From Bad Resumés to Poor Command of the Spoken Word

lorabby - 2008-05-08 4:12 PM  EDIT: of course, I myself speak lolcat on occasion, but never in performance of mah lawyerly dooties...

What is this lolcat you all speak of?!

2008-05-08 3:42 PM
in reply to: #1390269

Melon Presser
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Subject: RE: From Bad Resumés to Poor Command of the Spoken Word

Chrissy kicks my butt at a lot of things, so if she chooses to do so for my correction of her English ... so be it. I do see that she was referring to "inarticulate speech" and not incorrect punctuation (although she did point out Tim's errant apostrophe in his post).

1.      The word "who" is used only when a verb is associated with the subject that "who" refers to. There is no such verb in the following nested clause; therefore, the correct form is "whom." Additionally, most major American style and usage guides dictate that terminal punctuation should fall inside quotation marks.

My previous boss, whom I love to death, is a lawyer and she says "fustrated" instead of "frustrated."

2.      It isn't incorrect to use an en dash set open (that is, with spaces around it) to mark off a nested clause. However, it is incorrect to use hyphens that way. When en and/or em dashes are unavailable, use a double hyphen set closed.

Tim's post reminded me of something that drives me NUTS--and that is the inarticulate speech of those who SHOULD know better.

3.      An ellipsis is always marked off with spaces.

For example, instead of "comfortable," he says "comfable" ... I'm serious.


There are several other grammar and punctuation errors, as well as uncommon usages, but I have definitely batted this pitch enough!

 



Edited by TriAya 2008-05-08 3:49 PM
2008-05-08 3:45 PM
in reply to: #1390707

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Subject: RE: From Bad Resumés to Poor Command of the Spoken Word
wurkit_gurl - 2008-05-08 3:20 PM

lorabby - 2008-05-08 4:12 PM  EDIT: of course, I myself speak lolcat on occasion, but never in performance of mah lawyerly dooties...

What is this lolcat you all speak of?!



If I'm not mistaken it's referencing this site:

http://icanhascheezburger.com/



2008-05-08 3:57 PM
in reply to: #1390783

Subject: RE: From Bad Resumés to Poor Command of the Spoken Word
TriAya - 2008-05-08 4:42 PM

Chrissy kicks my butt at a lot of things, so if she chooses to do so for my correction of her English ... so be it. I do see that she was referring to "inarticulate speech" and not incorrect punctuation (although she did point out Tim's errant apostrophe in his post).

1.      The word "who" is used only when a verb is associated with the subject that "who" refers to. There is no such verb in the following nested clause; therefore, the correct form is "whom." Additionally, most major American style and usage guides dictate that terminal punctuation should fall inside quotation marks.

My previous boss, whom I love to death, is a lawyer and she says "fustrated" instead of "frustrated."

2.      It isn't incorrect to use an en dash set open (that is, with spaces around it) to mark off a nested clause. However, it is incorrect to use hyphens that way. When en and/or em dashes are unavailable, use a double hyphen set closed.

Tim's post reminded me of something that drives me NUTS--and that is the inarticulate speech of those who SHOULD know better.

3.      An ellipsis is always marked off with spaces.

For example, instead of "comfortable," he says "comfable" ... I'm serious.


There are several other grammar and punctuation errors, as well as uncommon usages, but I have definitely batted this pitch enough!

 

It's an online-post. I'm not really attempting to be on top of my game, not to mention the fact that I'm mostly paying attention to other work. I could go back and edit the whole dang thing if I had the time. But it's the internet -- I am casual in casual, private situations, with friends, etc. I will use slang. However, in the work place it seems rather unprofessional to me to let that stuff slip. Certainly in speech, and even in emails I am very conscious of grammar and spelling. I won't end a sentence with a dangling preposition. But on the internet, I simply don't care. It could be worse, I suppose. I could type solely in "internet-speak" or never use punctuation.



Edited by wurkit_gurl 2008-05-08 4:02 PM
2008-05-08 4:12 PM
in reply to: #1390646

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Subject: RE: From Bad Resumés to Poor Command of the Spoken Word
bcart1991 - 2008-05-08 4:02 PM
wurkit_gurl - 2008-05-08 3:58 PM

Ooh, don't even get me started on that one...fortunately I don't know very many people who actually say that.

You obviously don't travel to south Louisiana very much... Here in GA, it's pronounced "I'll ast around" by the locals.

Funny you mention it - that does seem to be a Southern thing - the only reason I even thought of it was that I was in DC yesterday and this morning, heard it all the time (and felt my skin crawl each time)*.

 

I will say though that I do find myself falling back into colloqualisms and my root speaking patterns (even having my midwest accent pop up at times), when I giving an extensive argument, thinking on my feet.  It is as if my mind switches over to focusing all its efforts on the logic of the arguments and I revert to auto-pilot in my speech patterns.  For example, I'll realize I start tossing in "ya know" where it doesn't belong and I tend to avoid the high-vocabulary words and use the most basic terms (example being yesterday I was arguing with a patent examiner at the Patent Office and instead of describing the systems as being "desparate", I simply called them "different."

 

 

*Yanti - how's that nesting?

2008-05-08 4:29 PM
in reply to: #1390646

Champion
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Subject: RE: From Bad Resumés to Poor Command of the Spoken Word
bcart1991 - 2008-05-08 1:02 PM
wurkit_gurl - 2008-05-08 3:58 PM

Ooh, don't even get me started on that one...fortunately I don't know very many people who actually say that.

You obviously don't travel to south Louisiana very much... Here in GA, it's pronounced "I'll ast around" by the locals.

Hey!  I'm from Southern Louisiana, and I *never* spoke like that.  Of course, my mother was a language teacher (English, French and Spanish), and it now a hobby-linguist, so any kind of incorrect or incoherent speaking was verboten.  We weren't even allowed to use the term "ain't" except in rare occasions.

2008-05-08 4:39 PM
in reply to: #1390836

Melon Presser
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Subject: RE: From Bad Resumés to Poor Command of the Spoken Word
wurkit_gurl - 2008-05-08 3:57 PM

It's an online-post. I'm not really attempting to be on top of my game, not to mention the fact that I'm mostly paying attention to other work. I could go back and edit the whole dang thing if I had the time. But it's the internet -- I am casual in casual, private situations, with friends, etc. I will use slang. However, in the work place it seems rather unprofessional to me to let that stuff slip. Certainly in speech, and even in emails I am very conscious of grammar and spelling. I won't end a sentence with a dangling preposition. But on the internet, I simply don't care. It could be worse, I suppose. I could type solely in "internet-speak" or never use punctuation.

Eh, you're right--Internet's Internet. And frankly, the same things that drive you nuts drive me nuts; however, I don't think the reasons that they drive me nuts are particularly valid.

When something is committed to writing in a professional context, I agree--there's no excuse for errors.

However, there are very few standards governing speech. There's no reason that pronouncing "nuclear" as "nucular" is incorrect; it's a commonly accepted pronunciation. Then there are many pronunciations that are uncommon, but not incorrect.

Sure, it's annoying when someone says "libary" instead of "library," and I probably wouldn't want that person giving a presentation with me. But the pronunciation isn't incorrect.

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