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Chi Running
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Greatest running style ever5 Votes - [11.63%]
It's ok15 Votes - [34.88%]
Not for me13 Votes - [30.23%]
I've experienced less injuries5 Votes - [11.63%]
I've experience more injuries0 Votes - [0%]
It's helped in triathlons after the bike leg5 Votes - [11.63%]
This is a multiple choice poll.

2008-10-20 4:29 PM

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Subject: Chi Running
What does everyone think about this book and running style?

I'd love personal stories if you have them (good or bad).


2008-10-20 5:09 PM
in reply to: #1755001

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Subject: RE: Chi Running

I bought the book simply because I was exhibiting at a recent trade show, and the Chi Running guys were close by. I'd heard about it here, actually, and so I walked over to check it out. I've never been a big fan of running, so I bought the book and thought, "Well, if this helps I'm all for it."

I can't even get past the first few chapters. Horribly written (IMHO), goes nowhere fast and I completely lost interest. I'd love to believe it and I'd love to put it into practice, but I just don't have the time or desire to wade through all the crap in the book to get to the heart of it.

YMMV, I know it works for a lot of people and I don't mean to offend anyone.



Edited by Poster Nutbag 2008-10-20 5:10 PM
2008-10-20 6:34 PM
in reply to: #1755001

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The Land of Misfit Toys
Subject: RE: Chi Running
I read it and just wasn't impressed. I can't really give you a book review because I read it a long time ago and haven't ever revisited it. I merely read it out of interest because of my running background. Perhaps if I had read it with the intent to change the way I run I would have had a different opinion of the book, but I just got a gimmicky vibe and kind of regretted the fact that I put money down for the book. There are people here that probably have a very different opinion from mine, but I think that for the vast majority of people, it's a waste.
2008-10-20 7:06 PM
in reply to: #1755001

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Anaheim
Subject: RE: Chi Running

I read the book and I found it useful. I think some of the stuff can be ignored as Dreyer makes some claims that are contrary to the body of research. I believe his views on nutrition and weight training are off base.

BUT: The book offers techniques for a beginning runner to do a lot of self improvement. The drills and focusing techniques are very helpful for developing good habits for long distance running. Especially for someone that may not have access to a coach that can give them feedback on their form. I also like the quick  pre-run loosining routine.

Since I'm being asked my opinion, it seems like the running version of Total Immersion where the author assures the reader that if you buy into his program you will effortlessly achieve all your goals through serene contemplation..ohm.

To echo some of the previous posters, yeah its written bad and the book is not for everybody.



Edited by Broompatrol 2008-10-20 7:09 PM
2008-10-20 7:38 PM
in reply to: #1755001

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Subject: RE: Chi Running
I forgot to add that the emphasis on relaxation has been helpful to me for running off the bike. I tend to be chronically tight so that's were the biggest boon for me has been.
2008-10-20 7:58 PM
in reply to: #1755001

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Subject: RE: Chi Running
Yeah, you know, I read this book on Sunday. A fairly light read. I always thought, "yeah right, pain free running, whatever." Anyways, picked it up at the library. Read the first 5 chapters, went for my long run. The only things I did was try to relax more and "lean". Averaged a 9:30 min/mile for 90 minutes. By far the fastest I have gone since I kept logging and likely my life. I am pretty sure I did my fastest 10 k too in the first 10 k. Thing was I didn't feel like I was working hard and I felt like I could keep it up for another 30 minutes.

Now I have been getting faster in the past month or so but my pace always falls off after an hour. I run 10 min walk 1 minute. Usually my first set is about 5:30 min/kim. My 7th 8th and 9th set usually move fairly quickly into the 7 minute range. On Sunday I slowed a little but it was from 5:10 min/km to 5:35.

Prior to this run my best pace for a longish run, like 11 km, was a 10 min/mile.

That being said, boy did my and shins hurt.

Now I am not a fast runner. I have done a 10k a 1/2 a 50 k and a couple triathlons including 1 IM.

but the lean and the relax thing really seemed to work.

Regarding TI swimming I learned that from a book, and it got me a 67 minutes swim in my ironman on 6 workouts a month, if a little leaning and relaxing (along with some good old fashion hard work) can do something about my 6 hour marathon time, I would be happy.

Edited to add: by the way, there are a bunch of chi running threads, I did a search yesterday as soon as I got back from my run, a lot of good opinions in them I think.



Edited by BigDH 2008-10-20 8:00 PM


2008-10-20 8:08 PM
in reply to: #1755384

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Master
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Subject: RE: Chi Running

Easy read but not a literary Top 100 

I found the techniques to be good for me in that I was a huge heel striker and this was causing me some pain issues and I worked on his premis of the lean and circular motion and stride length and it has helped me a lot.  As BigDH said it has made the running seem more effortless (I suspect this is from more efficiency).  It has helped me but it is not for everyone.

 

Steve

2008-10-20 8:16 PM
in reply to: #1755001

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Subject: RE: Chi Running

I find the technique useful and it has helped me avoid past knee pain and increased my times.  Not as much as I think it might if I actually trained more! ;-)

I have a martial arts BG but found the "Chi" stuff in the book to be a bit much.  More running, less chi and IMO it can help.

2008-10-21 7:18 AM
in reply to: #1755001

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Runner
Subject: RE: Chi Running

At its core, I don't have an issue with it.  The basic message is "Run lots, mostly easy, sometimes hard when you're ready."  Funny, this is the same message that Daniels, Pfitzinger, Glover, Lydiard, etc etc etc seem to echo.

I disagree with the form recommendations.  I disagree with the heel strike and cadence stuff; it's too specific to be universally applied.

2008-10-21 7:23 AM
in reply to: #1755874

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Master
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Subject: RE: Chi Running
Scout7 - 2008-10-21 8:18 AM

At its core, I don't have an issue with it.  The basic message is "Run lots, mostly easy, sometimes hard when you're ready."  Funny, this is the same message that Daniels, Pfitzinger, Glover, Lydiard, etc etc etc seem to echo.

I disagree with the form recommendations.  I disagree with the heel strike and cadence stuff; it's too specific to be universally applied.

I suspect that you are refering to my post and you are correct.  That is why I said that "for me" it helped me with two issues that I needed help with.  I was going to get the instruction from somewhere (and was looking at different sources) it's just that his delivery stuck with me as to how to address MY problems.  I don't agree with everything the author states but these things were/are a big help to me.

2008-10-21 7:36 AM
in reply to: #1755883

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Subject: RE: Chi Running
Reno8 - 2008-10-21 8:23 AM
Scout7 - 2008-10-21 8:18 AM

At its core, I don't have an issue with it.  The basic message is "Run lots, mostly easy, sometimes hard when you're ready."  Funny, this is the same message that Daniels, Pfitzinger, Glover, Lydiard, etc etc etc seem to echo.

I disagree with the form recommendations.  I disagree with the heel strike and cadence stuff; it's too specific to be universally applied.

I suspect that you are refering to my post and you are correct.  That is why I said that "for me" it helped me with two issues that I needed help with.  I was going to get the instruction from somewhere (and was looking at different sources) it's just that his delivery stuck with me as to how to address MY problems.  I don't agree with everything the author states but these things were/are a big help to me.

You suspect incorrectly.  I was not referring to anyone's post, I was stating my observations and experiences with the book.



2008-10-21 8:24 AM
in reply to: #1755874

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Subject: RE: Chi Running
Scout7 - 2008-10-21 8:18 AM

At its core, I don't have an issue with it.  The basic message is "Run lots, mostly easy, sometimes hard when you're ready."  Funny, this is the same message that Daniels, Pfitzinger, Glover, Lydiard, etc etc etc seem to echo.

I disagree with the form recommendations.  I disagree with the heel strike and cadence stuff; it's too specific to be universally applied.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your post and/or not remembering the book clearly.  Are you saying Chi Running advocates a heel strike?  That's not what I recall or got out of it...just the opposite.  I think they advocate a more "neutral" foot strike.  The idea of running in sand and making a perfect footprint each time or running on ice, using a kind of circular stride is what resonated with me.

2008-10-21 8:27 AM
in reply to: #1755993

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Runner
Subject: RE: Chi Running
Fatdoggy - 2008-10-21 9:24 AM
Scout7 - 2008-10-21 8:18 AM

At its core, I don't have an issue with it.  The basic message is "Run lots, mostly easy, sometimes hard when you're ready."  Funny, this is the same message that Daniels, Pfitzinger, Glover, Lydiard, etc etc etc seem to echo.

I disagree with the form recommendations.  I disagree with the heel strike and cadence stuff; it's too specific to be universally applied.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your post and/or not remembering the book clearly.  Are you saying Chi Running advocates a heel strike?  That's not what I recall or got out of it...just the opposite.  I think they advocate a more "neutral" foot strike.  The idea of running in sand and making a perfect footprint each time or running on ice, using a kind of circular stride is what resonated with me.

I disagree with the notion that the majority of people need to change their foot strike, and that heel strike is inherently bad.  Many top marathoners heel strike.  To say that one needs to change foot strike just because is, in my opinion, not always wise.  I agree that the foot needs to land close to the center of gravity, but I disagree that a forefoot or midfoot strike is inherently better than a heel strike.

2008-10-21 11:35 AM
in reply to: #1755999

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Master
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Dallas, Texas
Subject: RE: Chi Running
Scout7 - 2008-10-21 8:27 AM
Fatdoggy - 2008-10-21 9:24 AM
Scout7 - 2008-10-21 8:18 AM

At its core, I don't have an issue with it.  The basic message is "Run lots, mostly easy, sometimes hard when you're ready."  Funny, this is the same message that Daniels, Pfitzinger, Glover, Lydiard, etc etc etc seem to echo.

I disagree with the form recommendations.  I disagree with the heel strike and cadence stuff; it's too specific to be universally applied.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your post and/or not remembering the book clearly.  Are you saying Chi Running advocates a heel strike?  That's not what I recall or got out of it...just the opposite.  I think they advocate a more "neutral" foot strike.  The idea of running in sand and making a perfect footprint each time or running on ice, using a kind of circular stride is what resonated with me.

I disagree with the notion that the majority of people need to change their foot strike, and that heel strike is inherently bad.  Many top marathoners heel strike.  To say that one needs to change foot strike just because is, in my opinion, not always wise.  I agree that the foot needs to land close to the center of gravity, but I disagree that a forefoot or midfoot strike is inherently better than a heel strike.

Here's what puzzles me every time these foot strike discussions come up.  How does one land with one's foot under the center of gravity and, at the same time, heel strike (that is, land on the heel of the foot).  Seems to me that is mostly impossible.  Stand up and try it.  Heel strike will always be out in front of the center of gravity, correct?

I'm not advocating one foot strike or the other, just that the mechanics of heel strike means it's out in front of the center of gravity. 

2008-10-21 12:19 PM
in reply to: #1755999

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Subject: RE: Chi Running
Scout7 - 2008-10-21 9:27 AM
Fatdoggy - 2008-10-21 9:24 AM
Scout7 - 2008-10-21 8:18 AM

At its core, I don't have an issue with it.  The basic message is "Run lots, mostly easy, sometimes hard when you're ready."  Funny, this is the same message that Daniels, Pfitzinger, Glover, Lydiard, etc etc etc seem to echo.

I disagree with the form recommendations.  I disagree with the heel strike and cadence stuff; it's too specific to be universally applied.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your post and/or not remembering the book clearly.  Are you saying Chi Running advocates a heel strike?  That's not what I recall or got out of it...just the opposite.  I think they advocate a more "neutral" foot strike.  The idea of running in sand and making a perfect footprint each time or running on ice, using a kind of circular stride is what resonated with me.

I disagree with the notion that the majority of people need to change their foot strike, and that heel strike is inherently bad.  Many top marathoners heel strike.  To say that one needs to change foot strike just because is, in my opinion, not always wise.  I agree that the foot needs to land close to the center of gravity, but I disagree that a forefoot or midfoot strike is inherently better than a heel strike.

Ok now I'm confused.  I inherently land on the middle of my foot.  I have been seeing a physical therapist for posterior tibialis tendonitis.  Just this morining I got told to concentrate on striking more with my heel as my running style puts more stress on the arch and the bottom of my foot.  I'm beginning to think running will never work out for me and it is gettin very depressing.

2008-10-21 1:07 PM
in reply to: #1756788

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Runner
Subject: RE: Chi Running
What is confusing you?


2008-10-21 1:48 PM
in reply to: #1755001

Subject: ...
This user's post has been ignored.
2008-10-21 2:08 PM
in reply to: #1756957

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Subject: RE: Chi Running

Scout7 - 2008-10-21 2:07 PM What is confusing you?

 I already suck at running. Now someone says I should heel as midfoot strike is bad for your feet. another group seems to say midfoot strike is better for you foot.  So how am I supposed to run without injuring myself.  How do I figure out which works best for me without hurting myself?

2008-10-21 2:21 PM
in reply to: #1756666

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Subject: RE: Chi Running
zia_cyclist - 2008-10-21 10:35 AM

Scout7 - 2008-10-21 8:27 AM
Fatdoggy - 2008-10-21 9:24 AM
Scout7 - 2008-10-21 8:18 AM

At its core, I don't have an issue with it.  The basic message is "Run lots, mostly easy, sometimes hard when you're ready."  Funny, this is the same message that Daniels, Pfitzinger, Glover, Lydiard, etc etc etc seem to echo.

I disagree with the form recommendations.  I disagree with the heel strike and cadence stuff; it's too specific to be universally applied.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your post and/or not remembering the book clearly.  Are you saying Chi Running advocates a heel strike?  That's not what I recall or got out of it...just the opposite.  I think they advocate a more "neutral" foot strike.  The idea of running in sand and making a perfect footprint each time or running on ice, using a kind of circular stride is what resonated with me.

I disagree with the notion that the majority of people need to change their foot strike, and that heel strike is inherently bad.  Many top marathoners heel strike.  To say that one needs to change foot strike just because is, in my opinion, not always wise.  I agree that the foot needs to land close to the center of gravity, but I disagree that a forefoot or midfoot strike is inherently better than a heel strike.

Here's what puzzles me every time these foot strike discussions come up.  How does one land with one's foot under the center of gravity and, at the same time, heel strike (that is, land on the heel of the foot).  Seems to me that is mostly impossible.  Stand up and try it.  Heel strike will always be out in front of the center of gravity, correct?

I'm not advocating one foot strike or the other, just that the mechanics of heel strike means it's out in front of the center of gravity. 



I'm interested in the issue (or non-issue) of heel striking also. I tried the experiment you have mentioned and find that you absolutely CAN balance on your heels. If you are balanced on your heels then your center of gravity is over your feet; more precisely, it is directly over your heel. So your assertion that one cannot heel strike and have their feet contact under the center of gravity is incorrect.


Edited by djluscher 2008-10-21 2:21 PM
2008-10-21 2:26 PM
in reply to: #1755001

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Subject: RE: Chi Running
Scout - is it your opinion that the most important aspect of body mechanics during running is where your foot contacts the ground relative to the center of gravity of your body?

Can you suggest other references on this? I don't like to overthink running form, but I would like to keep things relatively efficient and injury free.

Is the key to chi running "run lots and land on the front of your foot"?
2008-10-21 2:28 PM
in reply to: #1757123

Runner
Subject: RE: Chi Running
trinnas - 2008-10-21 3:08 PM

Scout7 - 2008-10-21 2:07 PM What is confusing you?

 I already suck at running. Now someone says I should heel as midfoot strike is bad for your feet. another group seems to say midfoot strike is better for you foot.  So how am I supposed to run without injuring myself.  How do I figure out which works best for me without hurting myself?

My point earlier was that we are all rather different, so when a book tells people that a particular foot strike is bad, I don't agree with the book.

As to how you figure out what works...  Unfortunately, it consists of experimentation.  In your case, it seems heel striking is preferred.  I don't see any harm in heel striking.



2008-10-21 2:28 PM
in reply to: #1755431

Elite
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Subject: RE: Chi Running
Fatdoggy - 2008-10-20 8:16 PM

I find the technique useful and it has helped me avoid past knee pain and increased my times.  Not as much as I think it might if I actually trained more! ;-)

I have a martial arts BG but found the "Chi" stuff in the book to be a bit much.  More running, less chi and IMO it can help.



Agree about the "chi" stuff, but the book was very useful. You may also want to read some stuff about POSE to get more of the science behind it. You don't need to buy a book on POSE because there's lots of free stuff at http://www.posetech.com/.IMO, POSE and Chi are very similar.

The method works for me in terms of efficiency and decreased injuries. I'm currently stuck at a weight of 220 and I just completed a half marathon with no knee pain at all.

Edited by MikeTheBear 2008-10-21 2:30 PM
2008-10-21 2:44 PM
in reply to: #1757175

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Westchester, NY
Subject: RE: Chi Running

djluscher - 2008-10-21 3:26 PM Is the key to chi running "run lots and land on the front of your foot"?

IMO, no.  More like "run on your entire foot" and position your body so by leaning gravity moves you forward.  FWIW, I am by no means an expert on "Chi Running" or running in general!  I just know the little bit I played with the technique seems to have helped with past injuries.

2008-10-21 3:06 PM
in reply to: #1757183

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Subject: RE: Chi Running
Scout7 - 2008-10-21 3:28 PM
trinnas - 2008-10-21 3:08 PM

Scout7 - 2008-10-21 2:07 PM What is confusing you?

 I already suck at running. Now someone says I should heel as midfoot strike is bad for your feet. another group seems to say midfoot strike is better for you foot.  So how am I supposed to run without injuring myself.  How do I figure out which works best for me without hurting myself?

My point earlier was that we are all rather different, so when a book tells people that a particular foot strike is bad, I don't agree with the book.

As to how you figure out what works...  Unfortunately, it consists of experimentation.  In your case, it seems heel striking is preferred.  I don't see any harm in heel striking.

I was afraid you were going to say that.  Thanks I shall perservere.

2008-10-21 3:18 PM
in reply to: #1757231

New Haven, CT
Subject: RE: Chi Running
I don't think I am smart enough to distinguish between a heel strike and mid-foot strike.  As I understand it, we all have different gaits, left/right leg length variances, etc.  How can there a one-size-fits all style of running?  Obviously there are wrong ways to run (i.e, the chicken run) but we are talking a matter of and inch or two given an average size foot.  That is an awful small margin of error.
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