Low carb diet during taper

Here's the problem I see. Glucose stores deplete in a day or two and if she does this for 2 weeks prior to a race, she will have no glucose stores in her body for the race. Carbs Carbs Carbs. They are you friend. Do away with carbs will result in a quick weight loss, but studies show the weight loss is only temporary for about 70% of individuals. These low carb diets are just fads, stay with the carbs.

I don't have much experience here, so hopefully you'll get a more informed answer.  But with that caveat, I would NOT do this. 

Everything I have read on endurance racing calls for increasing carbs as you approach the race and actually cut down on fiber in the days just prior to racing.  Carbo-loading helps to ensure a full store of energy needed for race day.  I can't say whether your daughter could benefit by becoming a bit leaner, but I don't think dropping weight in the last two weeks is the way to achieve that.

FWIW, IMO, etc.

A 12yo with a formal race schedule...A races and all?  I'm not sure what to think about that.  As for dropping carbs before a race, you need to be careful not to push it too close to race day.  IMHO the best way to quickly drop body fat while maintaiing  lean mass is with a cyclical ketogenic diet (CKD) where carbs are virtually eliminated for 5-6 days forcing your body in ketosis where it burns fat as the primary fuel source.  After the keto phase you then carb-load for 36 hours...then repeat the cycle.  It's actually a very complicated diet with specific macro ratios and calorie limits on each individual day of the diet.  I don't necessarily suggest this for a child...I have no idea how it would effect her physiology.  And I also don't suggest carb restriction pre-race.  The initial weight loss from carb restriction is 90% water weight...can you say dehydration?  Additionally, energy levels will be low due to a lack of carbs as an energy source.  If you go low-carb to drop some weight and then carb-load in the days before the race chances are you'll gain most of the weight back immediately (water) and have done nothing aside from throw your body all kinds of strange signals.  Can something like you describe work...yes, for an adult with signifacant prior keto experience so they know how their body reacts, how long to carb restrict, and when to carb load properly.  As for a 12yo...a balanced diet, reasonable training plan and plenty of rest is the best way to go IMHO.

Thr first thing I would totally disagree with is "all low carb diets are fads, stay away from them". The reason I am able to do triathlons is I applied Dr. Atkins principles AFTER reading his book ( not listening to those who thought they knew what they were talking about) and lost 35 lbs in 6 mos. The weight has not returned and I did have to learn to mix in healthy carbs when training/doing triathlons. If you look at what he SAYS and not what people turn his plan into it is very similiar to what anyone eating healthy in athletics would do. Vegetables and lean meats mixed with exercise will help anyone. Excess sugar carbs are what he preaches against and much of the literature I have read from Hammer Nutrition backs it up. I am quite sure Hammer Nutrition never intended to help Dr. Atkins.

I personally would not do too much messing with a 12 yr old metabolism. I would concur with having carbs available for use when racing. That was a lesson I had to learn the hard way. You need good carbs and topping off glycogen stores before a race is a good idea. I do not know why anyone would not want to top off right before a race? At 12 I would stay the normal course for this race and not make any adjustments. Your daughter can then tell you how that works for her.

Fred

Ok, I guess I should have added that her race is a youth distance event. She will be done in under 30 minutes, so carbo-loading is unnecessary. Yes, she has a training plan and A, B and C races. Triathlon, along with swimming, is her sport of choice, so she trains for it. She has a nationally recognized junior tri coach who determines her training plan, so she is training correctly for the distances she races. Also, I was not talking about getting rid of all carbs, just the white ones. I was advised, by a long-time middle and high school track/cross country coach, to cut back on white carbs during the first week of her taper and then eliminate white carbs completely in the second week. She can have all the fruits and vegetables she wants, along with brown rice, barley and whole grain bread.

Personally, I would get rid of white carbs period. Not just during a taper, but never. Stick with whole grains, fruits and vegetables for the bulk of your carbs. The higher carb content relative to "white" carbs will cause her to feel full sooner, therefore eat less and probably lose some weight.

I'm guessing in your daughter's case, the amount of non-water weight she might lose and stay healthy over the next three weeks is probably only a couple pounds, since she really isn't overweight to begin with. I would guess the amount that might affect her performance is probably trivial, unless the bike course has significant amounts of climbing (which for a junior event is probably unlikely).

My suggestion is to instill a healthy diet and let nature find her correct weight. As a woman you probably already know this, but overly low body fat will mess with her development at that stage. Plus you probably don't want to instill behaviors that may teach her to obsess about food/weight and potential lead to eating disorders.

Edited by JGFTri 2005-04-02 2:52 PM

IMHO, I don't know why a tri coach would put someone on a 3 week taper for a race that will last less than 30 min. I might be overstepping my bounds but I think pushing a 12 year old or overly encouraging a kid in athlethics could be too much. I volunteer a kids tris here and every year there is a couple of kids who ride $2000 bikes and are sponsored by bike shops. The parents freak out the whole race. 2 years ago, when two boys lost to a kid they never raced before, their parents protested the other kids age. Both boys finished neck in neck for 2nd. They decided to give them both 2nd place medals, one boy threw his stuff on the ground and was pissed and the other kid wouldn't except the medal and cried. I looked at all the other kids that were there just to have fun and they had a blast. Two of the most talented kids in the race had the worst experience and their parents didn't help the situation. By no means am I preaching to you because I have no idea how you raise your daughter, but I see the new bike and now the coach and I am concerned what will happen to Herdaughter when she doesn't win, PB or make weight.
Take care
Tom

It would be a good idea for everyone to eliminate processed "white" carb from their diet for as long as they live.  Stick with whole wheats (and be careful with"wheat" bread...make sure it doesn't contain enriched or bleached flour...this isn't whole wheat), brown rice, yams (yams are a better choice compared to sweet taters), dark green veggies, and fruits for the bulk of your carbs.  And also, there is a time and place for simple and complex sugars, especially when training and recovering.

I must have mislead you, she is not on a 3 week taper, she is 3 weeks out from her race. For this race, she will have lighter workouts the week prior, that will be her "taper". She is too young to physiologically obtain much benefit from a true taper, it is mostly psycological at her age.

I don't know what you define as "pushing" a child in athletics, but you seem to equate it to money spent. I realize that NO 12 year old, no matter how good they are perceived to be(impossible to really know at that age), NEEDS a $2000 bike. But, how many adults for that matter really NEED a $2000 bike. My daughter got a new bike because she had outgrown her old bike. She loves triathlon and has been working very hard and her dad and I wanted to reward her effort. We ended up with the bike we did because we got an extraordinarily good deal on the frame. Does she NEED that bike to do her best, absolutely not. But she has it, so lucky her! And what is unusual about having a coach. All sports require coaching to insure safety and proper skill development, especially important for children. Why would triathlon be any different? I have no experience in running or cycling, therefore she has a coach so that I am assured that her training is safe and appropriate for her age and development. It also gives her a feeling of belonging, as this coach has lots of other kids on his team.

I have also witnessed a scene such as you descibed in triathlon, one time, and it was at a youth race also. There are parents like that in every sport. I am a swim coach and I see this kind of stuff every day. I also see it in soccer, baseball, basketball and tennis. Unfortunately, triathlon is not exempt. This behavior is extremely prevalent in our society, just watch any major sporting event and you will see this type of behavior modeled by our top athletes. Children do as they see, not as they are told. My daughter knows that it would be her LAST event if I ever saw behavior such as that. But I am not worried about that, she is a sweet and humble little girl and it is not in her to behave in that manner.

You truly have no need to worry about my daughter, but I appreciate your concern. Weight is a non-issue for us. This just came up because of a conversation I had with another coach and his suggestions, based on his experience with some girls that he has coached. As far as performance goes, she does not always win. In fact, these days in swimming, she seldom does. Sometimes she PB's, sometimes not. She does not expect to win or PB all the time. She takes it all in stride, wins and losses, good days and bad days. I teach her that it is the process that is important.

My daughter is learning so much through her participation in triathlon. She enjoys being part of the triathlon community. We volunteer at races and promote the sport of triathlon in our community. She has met some wonderful people and has made many new friends through this sport. If she never won a race, she would still gain so much from this sport. It is a lifestyle choice for us. She enjoys training, it is a special time she shares with her dad. While her friends are trying to get as far away from their parents as they can, she can't wait for her dad to get home so they can ride together(they are preparing to ride as I type this). And going to races is fun for us. If she races on Saturday, it is usually just her and I because of her dad's work schedule. We look forward to our "girls only" weekends. We treat ourselves to a nice dinner the night before the race and hit the stores for some window shopping after the race. I realize that soon enough she will join her friends in their opinion of spending time with their parents. I am enjoying every moment that I can right now, while she can still stand being around us!

Cool! I didn't mean to come off as judging you. I totally understand where you are coming from now. It seems like you have this all under control. I have a daughter and would hope to someday be able to train and spend time with her as you and your husband do with Herdaughter.
Take care
Tom

Congrats, Hermom, on supporting and encouraging your daughter's passion. It sounds like your family has found something you can all bond over. Very cool.

Having said that, I don't know anything about going low carb during a taper. My guess is that what works for swimmers probably doesn't work for triathletes since swimming events usually only last a minute or two. But, she's young and it is only one race. If she wants to try it, why not? She'll learn, one way or another, if it works for her.

Good luck and hope she is enjoying her new bike.

Thank you for your kind words. I want you to know that I am not encouraging my daughter to lose weight. As a matter of fact, she doesn't know anything about this(until she reads this thread). Her weight is not an issue, for her or for me or for her coach. I do all I can to counter the bombardment with images of real women, with strong, athletic bodies. Our current favorite triathlete role model is Jessi Stensland, for swimming Jenny Thompson. I was just wondering if anyone had experience with this type of low carb diet during the taper phase. It was suggested as a means to improve performance and the only athletes that I have known that have done this have been high school age athletes. I was just curious as to other people's experience with this.

"Carbs, carbs, carbs...they are your friend."

Good carbs are your friend, but white flour, sugar and potatoes are really not very good for you. And if you have some extra weight to lose, your fat stores serve as your energy "tanks." But, I'm not sure what advice to give for a 12 yr old girl, because her organs, tissues, etc...are still growing, and I'm not sure a completely low carb diet would be a great idea. But, eating better carbs and good fats will help her to lose the weight, I think, if that's what's she's going for. I wish her good luck!!

PS: I didn't know that "elite swimmers" eat fruits veggies, and lots of meat. Interesting. Thanks for sharing that...