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bike to run transition
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 2009-06-22 3:51 AM |
Member 9 |  Subject: bike to run transitionI am having a really hard time transitioning from biking to running. After a solid bike performance my muscles are fatigued. I am only doing a sprint so I need to only cover 3.1 miles but it has been tough. I can run only 1/2 mile before needing to walk. Any tips on how to make this transition easier. I really would like to be able to run the whole 3.1!! I have been doing some strength training and but have devoted most of my trainings to the bike/run blend. Any suggestions would be great. |
| 2009-06-22 4:57 AM in reply to: #2233066 |
 On your right | Subject: RE: bike to run transition The advice that I see for this (since I'm pretty new still) is to spin a little more in the last bit of your bike. This, I believe, should help flush out your legs with easy resistance and not just mashing and tiring them more. Others that are way more knowledgable will be here soon to give a better, or at least more rationaled opinion. |
| 2009-06-22 5:53 AM in reply to: #2233066 |
Veteran 120 Milton Keynes, UK | Subject: RE: bike to run transition When I started a few months ago I suffered just like you to the point where it took me 20 mins to do the 2nd 2 miles of a duathlon I entered. I have since focused on brick training (bike-run) in most of my workouts. The more experienced BT’ers will probably say you only need a brick workout once a week but I do them 3 times a week and I am now able to go straight from bike to run properly so my run times don't suffer. I also feel it has really improved my fitness faster than just running or cycling on their own would have done. Edited by Bob the Trier! 2009-06-22 5:58 AM |
| 2009-06-22 5:54 AM in reply to: #2233066 |
Extreme Veteran 349 Burke, VA | Subject: RE: bike to run transition Most important, would be to do bricks. That is, work on riding the bike and then going for a run asap. This will help you work on your transition, as well as let your body to start "accepting" this change of muscle groups. I can't see anything in your logs, so I don't know what level you are at, but I would stay, start slow. Go for a short ride, 30 mins or so, then run, even if it is just a short run. Make sure you are also hydrated. |
| 2009-06-22 6:02 AM in reply to: #2233066 |
Veteran 407 | Subject: RE: bike to run transition I find that it takes me almost a mile before I really feel like I am in my running pace. For me it is mind over matter. Know that your legs are going to feel like cement coming off the bike and that it will pass and keep on running. In the end I have found out that I am not running as slow as I feel I am. I only do bricks a couple of times leading up to a race, just to remind myself how bad it feels. I am not sure if this is true but I have heard that doing too many bricks can work against you. Maybe someone with more experience could comment on the bricks? |
| 2009-06-22 6:29 AM in reply to: #2233066 |
| 76 | Subject: RE: bike to run transition I agree about doing bricks. I even htrow in a race intensity run pace just so my body knows what it feels like. Keep it up it will get easier |
| 2009-06-22 7:21 AM in reply to: #2233147 |
Master 1853  syracuse | Subject: RE: bike to run transition whats a typical week for you training wise? lack of bricks have little to nothing to do with this |
| 2009-06-22 7:55 AM in reply to: #2233066 |
Cycling Guru 15134 Fulton, MD | Subject: RE: bike to run transition Brick training will do nothing to get you to be able to run better off the bike (other than simply adding more volume to your workout schedule). Neither will strength training. You bonked on the run because you are going too hard on the bike. And "spinning" the last mile or so is not going to do anything to change that - damage was already done. Slow down on the bike and/or ramp up your bike training so that you can put out that sort of effort without wiping out your system. Good consistent training across all disciplines will allow you to run well off the bike, not some magic formula. Congrats on your results though, and continue to work hard and pace right! You will improve. |
| 2009-06-22 8:44 AM in reply to: #2233207 |
Champion 11989 Philly 'burbs | Subject: RE: bike to run transition cusetri - 2009-06-22 8:21 AM whats a typical week for you training wise? x2 What's your running base? How do you do in a stand alone 5K? |
| 2009-06-23 8:55 AM in reply to: #2233066 |
| Member 9 | Subject: RE: bike to run transition thanks to all who responded. To best answer everyones questions my typical training week is I devote 2 days to swimming/strength, 2 days bike/run brick, and 1 day 5k run. Prior to attempting a tri I was running about 3miles without issue and have done 10ks before. I have done most of my training indoors due to the weather and bike issues except for my alone run days. I found out 2 weeks ago the race is not as flat as I thought and have been doing 12 miles on the bike using the hill interval program at a level 8. I have only have until July 12th to get there and am willing to endure intense/effective training to get me to the finish line so if anyone has some last minute get your butt in shape tips I am all ears.Thanks! |
| 2009-06-23 9:03 AM in reply to: #2236428 |
Cycling Guru 15134 Fulton, MD | Subject: RE: bike to run transition If it is at all possible, you need more bike time. 2 rides is really going to be hard to increase your cycling fitness. Sometimes that is all we can work with though. And in that case I would suggest increasing the time/distance of each of those rides over adding intensity. Do a little more each week in the rides (say another mile or two). Yours is simply an issue of training load. It is just not at the level where you could comfortably come off the bike and run well yet. Give it time, you'll get there! |
| 2009-06-23 9:15 AM in reply to: #2233066 |
Champion 5117 Brandon, MS | Subject: RE: bike to run transition I agree with Rick. You need to get on the bike and ride, ride, ride. |
| 2009-06-23 9:27 AM in reply to: #2233066 |
| Subject: RE: bike to run transition I get the same calf cramps... terrible. Can't just run through them. So is more better? I have read a lot about over training, and Im a little confused. I have been an athlete all of my life, and I don't think I have ever over trained for any sports. I have never been a triathlete though.... I am currently doing short 8 mile ride, 1 mile run for "bricks"... on ride days I ride about 20 miles in an hour or so... once in awhile I ll go longer, but I feel bad being away from the kiddo that long on a weekend. So for a sprint tri with 1/3 mile swim, 14 mile bike 3.1 mile run I am riding about 1.5 times the necessary amount on long rides, but keeping it shorter for quick workouts (the ride portin of the brick is really easy). I also have only one dedicated run only day, but I mix in shorter runs during the week... SO- to make the transition easier, more running, or more biking? I guess the easy eanswer is BOTH right? |
| 2009-06-23 9:48 AM in reply to: #2233266 |
Expert 1123 Falls Church, VA | Subject: RE: bike to run transition Daremo - 2009-06-22 8:55 AM Brick training will do nothing to get you to be able to run better off the bike (other than simply adding more volume to your workout schedule). Neither will strength training. You bonked on the run because you are going too hard on the bike. And "spinning" the last mile or so is not going to do anything to change that - damage was already done. Slow down on the bike and/or ramp up your bike training so that you can put out that sort of effort without wiping out your system. Good consistent training across all disciplines will allow you to run well off the bike, not some magic formula. Congrats on your results though, and continue to work hard and pace right! You will improve. So brick training won't help at all in learning what intensity you can push on the bike, then run afterwards? |
| 2009-06-23 9:58 AM in reply to: #2236453 |
| Austin, Texas or Jupiter, Florida | Subject: RE: bike to run transition Daremo - 2009-06-23 10:03 AM If it is at all possible, you need more bike time. 2 rides is really going to be hard to increase your cycling fitness. Sometimes that is all we can work with though. And in that case I would suggest increasing the time/distance of each of those rides over adding intensity. Do a little more each week in the rides (say another mile or two). Yours is simply an issue of training load. It is just not at the level where you could comfortably come off the bike and run well yet. Give it time, you'll get there! I agree with Daremo. I used to do bricks, bricks, bricks but didn't help as much as doing longer bikes to make that 13 miles (in a sprint) seem so much easier. That way, when you run, you can keep going. The other consideration is duration of your training sessions. I don't know who said it, but someone had a tip on BT that you should run for as long as the entire distance will take during training (of course not for HIM or IM), and you should ride for longer than the race should take (again, not for HIM or IM). That way, your body is used to longer durations. So if you're running a sprint, you should do a few 1hour 30 min runs and 1hr30min rides to get ready for the 1hr+ sprint. |
| 2009-06-23 10:01 AM in reply to: #2236498 |
Champion 11989 Philly 'burbs | Subject: RE: bike to run transition sesh - 2009-06-23 10:15 AM I agree with Rick. You need to get on the bike and ride, ride, ride. Um...run more too. |
| 2009-06-23 10:06 AM in reply to: #2236690 |
Champion 5117 Brandon, MS | Subject: RE: bike to run transition GomesBolt - 2009-06-23 9:58 AM I agree with Daremo. I used to do bricks, bricks, bricks but didn't help as much as doing longer bikes to make that 13 miles (in a sprint) seem so much easier. That way, when you run, you can keep going. The other consideration is duration of your training sessions. I don't know who said it, but someone had a tip on BT that you should run for as long as the entire distance will take during training (of course not for HIM or IM), and you should ride for longer than the race should take (again, not for HIM or IM). That way, your body is used to longer durations. So if you're running a sprint, you should do a few 1hour 30 min runs and 1hr30min rides to get ready for the 1hr+ sprint. I more or less do something along those lines. I train at race efforts for double the bike distance (so usually 40 miles or so), and my training runs top out at double the race distance. So usually from 6-8 miles. Well, that's what they would be doing if my IT band wasn't a little *****. But for someone new, who is trying to build endruance from scratch, the best way is to spend time on the bike. Working toward doubling the bike race distance in a training ride seems like a goal. You'll get there, and you'll find that running after the race distance will "magically" seem a little easier. |
| 2009-06-23 10:11 AM in reply to: #2236700 |
Champion 5117 Brandon, MS | Subject: RE: bike to run transition mrbbrad - 2009-06-23 10:01 AM sesh - 2009-06-23 10:15 AM I agree with Rick. You need to get on the bike and ride, ride, ride. Um...run more too. Since the OP said they did 5ks with no issues prior to tris and raced 10ks, it's my opinion that they need to focus on the bike a lot more. It sounded like an endurance issue, and biking is the "easiest" way to build endurance since you can increase your duration more quickly and with a much lower risk of injury. |
| 2009-06-23 10:19 AM in reply to: #2236652 |
Cycling Guru 15134 Fulton, MD | Subject: RE: bike to run transition Bioteknik - 2009-06-23 10:48 AM So brick training won't help at all in learning what intensity you can push on the bike, then run afterwards? I would personally argue "No" on that (in training). First of all, I would NEVER prescribe a race pace effort for a ride followed by a run to begin with, even if it was at a recovery pace. Cost (length of recovery, higher risk of injury) to benefit (none to me) is just way to high for my tastes. Second, the only way to simulate and practice a race effort is to race. No matter how you pace and put out effort in a training brick, it will never be able to accurately reflect what happens on race day. A triathlete also has to swim before, which eats up some energy. So even if someone was able to come to some range/pace that they could hold on the bike and then be able to run off of it, it still would not be an accurate gage of what the person can do in a race where they have to swim and transition first. And more than likely, it is my opinion that they will still overcook the bike and have issues on the run if they go by some training simulation. There are way to many factors during the race that have an affect on what one can actually do. For the OP, it is simply a matter of not enough training load and going harder on the bike than fitness dictates. Part of learning pace is making these mistakes and trying to learn from them. The more race experience the better they can adapt and make adjustments. To answer their latest question, properly balanced training plans can have you doing 3 or 4 of each discpline a week. Yes, it takes a lot of time out of life, yes it is hard to balance. But if you honestly want to improve your abilities, an increase in the amount of training (in a slow stepped and well thought out manner) will yield the best results. My thoughts, nothing more than that. |
| 2009-06-23 10:41 AM in reply to: #2233066 |
Master 2460 | Subject: RE: bike to run transition Agree with Daremo and all the nonbrickers out there. Bricks are over-rated. I find that a 4 hour bike is way more valuable than a 2.5hr bike + 1.5hr run or other combinations of the two. If you can hold the distance for those long single sport workouts, the sport transition will be much, much easier on race day. You simply don't get the same workout after say, 2.5hrs on a bike versus 4 hrs on a bike, even with the brick run added on to the end. It's not the same. I definitely am substantially stronger than I was 8 months ago and have done no bricks in the past 4 months. I used to do a 3-4 hr brick every weekend, but I found it didn't give as strong a training stimulus as the long solo bike or run. Even with my lack of bricks, I've had zero problems on the transition since - it's way easier for me now than when I was bricking like crazy. |
| 2009-06-23 10:44 AM in reply to: #2233066 |
Expert 1215 Austin, TX | Subject: RE: bike to run transition From your bike trainng description, it sounds like you are on a stationary bike at the gym. Those probably work OK for general fitness, but I don't think it will help very much on riding your bike. If you must train indoors, get a trainer to use with your bike or try spinning classes. The caveat on spinning classes i syou've got to find a good instructor who teaches more along the lines of cycling versus aerobics class on a bike. You might also consider incorporating a day a week of run intervals. |
| 2009-06-23 10:51 AM in reply to: #2236790 |
Expert 1123 Falls Church, VA | Subject: RE: bike to run transition Daremo - 2009-06-23 11:19 AM Bioteknik - 2009-06-23 10:48 AM So brick training won't help at all in learning what intensity you can push on the bike, then run afterwards? I would personally argue "No" on that (in training). First of all, I would NEVER prescribe a race pace effort for a ride followed by a run to begin with, even if it was at a recovery pace. Cost (length of recovery, higher risk of injury) to benefit (none to me) is just way to high for my tastes. Second, the only way to simulate and practice a race effort is to race. No matter how you pace and put out effort in a training brick, it will never be able to accurately reflect what happens on race day. A triathlete also has to swim before, which eats up some energy. So even if someone was able to come to some range/pace that they could hold on the bike and then be able to run off of it, it still would not be an accurate gage of what the person can do in a race where they have to swim and transition first. And more than likely, it is my opinion that they will still overcook the bike and have issues on the run if they go by some training simulation. There are way to many factors during the race that have an affect on what one can actually do. For the OP, it is simply a matter of not enough training load and going harder on the bike than fitness dictates. Part of learning pace is making these mistakes and trying to learn from them. The more race experience the better they can adapt and make adjustments. To answer their latest question, properly balanced training plans can have you doing 3 or 4 of each discpline a week. Yes, it takes a lot of time out of life, yes it is hard to balance. But if you honestly want to improve your abilities, an increase in the amount of training (in a slow stepped and well thought out manner) will yield the best results. My thoughts, nothing more than that. Thanks for that response! |
| 2009-06-23 11:13 AM in reply to: #2233066 |
Expert 790 | Subject: RE: bike to run transition I'm new as well. But I'm trying to bike longer distances to build endurance on the bike and I'm training to run to only cover the distance. Since I'm new I don't want to put alot of miles in running since I recently had a calf strain. I can cover the distance a decent pace, but will focus on the bike to increase my endurance. I normally ride 50-62 miles on Saturday and 30 miles on Sunday with an OWS. |
| 2009-06-23 11:17 AM in reply to: #2236790 |
Champion 11989 Philly 'burbs | Subject: RE: bike to run transition Daremo - 2009-06-23 11:19 AM properly balanced training plans can have you doing 3 or 4 of each discipline a week. Yes, it takes a lot of time out of life, yes it is hard to balance. But if you honestly want to improve your abilities, an increase in the amount of training (in a slow stepped and well thought out manner) will yield the best results. What he said. |
| 2009-06-23 6:23 PM in reply to: #2236726 |
| Member 9 | Subject: RE: bike to run transition thanks. I hear you on the IT band issue!! Super annoying and part of the reason I am so behind in my training. Stretching has been my best friend and surprisingly has been pretty effective a little sore not as bad as it was. |
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