I could swim all day.

Have you worked with a coach on your form?

At this point it's probably a form issue since you have the endurance down.

You also need to learn how to swim faster.. how to push yourself... to find your different speeds. Swimming with other people helps.

To swim faster you have to swim faster.

You need to start swimming 100's on the 1:45. Try doing 10x100 on the 1:45, it will be hard be eventually it will get easier.

Next time you go the pool (or possibly open water), why don't you actually swim that 2.4 miles and see how it feels. I would be interested to see your time.

Do more of that.  Less of '2:00 per 100, forever'.

Having someone look at my form is probably a good idea. I actually was a coach, a billion years ago BT (Before Triathlons) Even then I was looking that the teams form and not at my own.

usually about once a week I swim an hour at that pace. It comes out to 3000 yards. or 1.7 miles. Then I do some sprints or some other strokes or both.

You were a coach, you should know this.

Find your threshold pace.

Threshold sets - 80-95% of your Tpace, short rest intervals.
Interval sets - 90-110% of your Tpace, long rest intervals.

Swimming at or near your threshold on short rest intervals increases the distance you can swim at your threshold. Swimming above your threshold with long rest intervals increases your top speed. Together, they increase speed and time you can swim at that speed.

John

LOL. I was a high school girls swimteam coach in 1978. (at a school that didn't even have a pool)

Whatever a "Threshold Pace" is, it hadn't been invented yet. It sounds like what I need. Can you translate that into english? How do I find this pace?

Do a warmup. Swim for 30 minutes straight at a "harder" pace, and record how far you went. Divide by time to get time/100. That is your threshold pace. So if your 1000m Tpace is 2:00/100, then workouts might look something like this:

Threshold workout
8x50 SKPS (Swim/kick/pull/swim x 50) warmup
10x100 on 2:10 (So you have 2:10 to do your 100, and rest before the next one. Aim to get every hundred at or under 1:50)
2x300 cruise
3x100 wd

Interval workout
8x50 SKPS warmup
5x100, all under 1:40, :45-1:00 rest interval (RI)
10x50 all under :45ish, :45-1:00 RI
6x100 build (start easy, finish hard), :30 RI
6x50 pull warmdown

There are other threshold tests you can do, just google swimming threshold test.

John

I think I get it... I don't have to find out my Thold pace, I already know what it is. It's Exactlly 2:00 per 100 Yds. Any faster than that and I would have to stop & rest. I'm not sure I understand the 80-95% of my pace. You don't want me to swim 10% slower than my Tpace, do you?  the examples seem right and are showing times faster than my Thold.

Easiest (to remember and calculate) threshold swimming test I have done is:

10 min warmup
1000TT - all out ( you should be exhausted after)

Take your time and divide by 10 to get your Threshold pace (i.e 1000 in 18:00 = 1:48/100 T-Pace)

Edited by JustTriDave 2009-07-06 2:34 PM

The 80-95% includes your rest time. So in the example of 2:10 per 100 in the first example, you should be getting 20 seconds rest each time, which makes your actual 100 time 1:50.

John

I did some of this last night and I have to admit that it put me out of my comfort zone.  Thank you, I had a good workout!  I couldn't quite keep up with the suggested examples but I get the point. I have to push myself with sprints (faster than my comfortable pace, short rest, then do it again).  I hate to be a pain in the calculator but...90% of my 2:00 pace is 1:48 (I get it 1:50 is easier on the clock) Where does the 2:10 including rest come from? If I'm doing 100's on the 2:10 and I come in at 1:50 and rest for :20 seconds then go again. Or I get tired and come in at 1:55 and rest for :15 seconds.  How did we come up with the  2:10 including "rest" time?

That workout was given as a threshold workout, so the 2:10 is 110% (roughly) of your 2:00/100 time.  And yes, I'd say that coming in on the 1:50s or so sounds about right to me (a non-expert to say the least).   But yes, if you come in at 1:55, then you get only 15s rest, and so on.  At least, that's how I've interpreted these workouts in my own plan.

This thread has helped remind me what I'm supposed to be doing in the pool.  thanks!

Another good threshold or T-Pace test is 3x300 as hard as you can with :30RI between 300's. Try and keep all 3 within :10 of eacother. Take the average of the 3 and divide by 3 to get you pace per 100.

If you aren't sore (shoulders/arms/lats) to the point where it impedes your stroke, you can. I'd recommend doing a threshold day, then a distance day (stuff like 4x500 on 10:00 or similar), and then a day where you do interval work. (Much faster than your Tpace, long rest).

for your question above, the 1:50 is for ease of calculation, and you want between 10-20 seconds of rest on most threshold pace workout sets. I could have as easily written the set as:

10x100 with :20 RI, hold 1:50. That means 10x100, you get 20 seconds rest, try to hold all 100's at 1:50 or faster.

Threshold sets you want to feel uncomfortable. Interval sets you want to feel like "ZOMG I'm gonna drown I can't feel my toes where the he77 is the godverdamnt WALL?!?!?"

John

which means that the best interval workout I ever did was the first time I jumped into the pool!

Seriously,  thanks for your posts in this thread -- very helpful.

Edited by Experior 2009-07-07 1:56 PM

LOL!

Just for a perspective - My hardest workout in HS was our annual "First of the year" workout. Take the last two digits of the year and do that many 100's.

So, Jan 2, 1985 was 85x100 on 1:10. I made it to 53 before I heaved in the gutter.

John

I now my have my Detriot Dan voodoo doll.  After my Monday swim where I was done after 800meters due to leg cramps (normally do more but not a couple of miles) last thing I wanted to see was "I can swim all day" .  So in goes the pin "Swim with this all day!" , another for the "Iron man quote"!


(just in case, this was in fun Dan.  Just venting my complete ineptitude when it comes to swimming!  Don't take it personal)

LOL. As it turns out I have been training all wrong. Yeah, I could swim all day but I have been training myself to STAY slow.  Also I can't ride a bike for more than 10 miles without dying. So I'm sticking a voodoo pin in your bike seat.

Touche!

With regards to swimming training (or running as well as cycling, for that matter) is variance.  A swim workout shouldn't always be the same monotonous workout.  Throw in some sprints, longer distance, etc.  In terms of the full workout, you should have a "long day" and a "short day."  A long day will help build your endurance while the short days are for skills, sprints, etc.  On a short day, you might also do a short run/bike or weights as well. 

Best,
Rob

I TAKE IT ALL BACK!!
I can swim all day (EXCEPT YESTERDAY). What happened??? I did a sprint tri yesterday .5 mile swim and almost had to stop for help. I lost my "I can swim forever pace". I was 3 minutes slower than last months race. I had to breastroke and backstroke for most of it. I think the rain and cold got to me before it started. I stood on the beach freezing for 30 minutes before it started. The water temp was 75. Could standing in a cold rain have sucked out my energy/air?