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Running Speed Work
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 2009-08-21 8:16 AM |
Expert  1203  |  Subject: Running Speed WorkI am a slow runner but I am trying to work on it. I am also trying to focus on increasing my distance as well. This years Triathlons are over for me and I really want to do a 1/2 marathon in the spring so I figured I better start now. Most of the plans have at least 1 night of speed work but don't get into to much detail as to what that is other than finding a local track to run on. Last night I decided I would try my own interpritation of speed work and just run as fast as I could for as long as I could then slow down until my heart rate was managable again and take off. Not much of a plan but it worked and I am tired and hurting today from it. This typically worked out to about 1/4 mile at a 6 Min Pace then a 1/4 mile at a 12 Min Pace. Did this for 2 miles and I was completely wiped out. Does anyone have a specific plan on how to do speed work? Should I slow down on the 6 Min Pace and maybe do 8 so I can run a longer total distance? So here is my basic weekly plan along. Sunday -- Easy Swim or Bike along with long stretch Monday -- Spinning Tuesday -- Short Run Weds -- CRIT Class Thursday -- Speed Work + Easy Swim Friday -- Recovery Day Saturday -- Long Run Edited by Batlou 2009-08-21 8:17 AM |
| 2009-08-21 8:24 AM in reply to: #2361909 |
Resident Curmudgeon 25290   The Road Back Gold member | Subject: RE: Running Speed Work If you really want to get faster, run more. Five, six days a week, increasing your distances slowly. Training for a half marathon should help you with this. Eventually, once you build a bit of a base, you can add in strides, hill work, tempo runs and, finally, intervals. |
| 2009-08-21 8:29 AM in reply to: #2361933 |
Extreme Veteran 887 Lake Placid, NY | Subject: RE: Running Speed Work the bear - 2009-08-21 9:24 AM If you really want to get faster, run more. Five, six days a week, increasing your distances slowly. Training for a half marathon should help you with this. Eventually, once you build a bit of a base, you can add in strides, hill work, tempo runs and, finally, intervals. I have to agree with Bear. Your plan would work great if you just wanted to complete the half-mary, but you need to become more run-focused to really increase your speed. Also agreed that interval work should come after you've built up a good base and done strides/hill work/tempo runs/etc. Otherwise you risk injury. Just my 2 cents on the one sport I can actually speak to.  |
| 2009-08-21 8:29 AM in reply to: #2361909 |
Member 13 Maracaibo, Venezuela | Subject: RE: Running Speed Work I've heard/read a few times here that tempo runs are very good for gaining overall speed, a tempo run is a "comfortably hard" run. Here's a link to an article: http://www.runnersworld.com/article/0,7120,s6-238-267--11909-0,00.html |
| 2009-08-21 8:34 AM in reply to: #2361909 |
Master 4119 Toronto Bronze member | Subject: RE: Running Speed Work Usually for beginners hoping to pick up the pace there are two good workouts to try: 1. Fartlek - this is just picking up the pace for a short distance at a time - light post to light post - a city block or so and then go back to a slower pace and repeat a few times. 2. Tempo work - this is where you push the pace to 'comfortably hard' - at least to start for a steady period. Most things I've read say that 20-30 minutes in tempo is sufficient. I've done longer tempos (and btw, I find these most helpful) but it's a good place to start. There is the run more but you also have to do that carefully - the 10% rule is a good guideline - it takes time and patience to build both speed and distance - so don't double your mileage next week and don't go all out and do every run hard in order to get faster. There's tons of info on different types of workouts really most running books you can pick up at the library will explain different thinking on how to get faster and increase endurance. |
| 2009-08-21 8:46 AM in reply to: #2361909 |
Expert 2555 Colorado Springs, Colorado | Subject: RE: Running Speed Work If your log is a true indication of how much you run then you're not running enough to even consider doing speedwork at this time. What you really need to do is just what the Bear said - run more overall by running more days. Don't worry about speed at this point. There are numerous testimonies on this site from people who've done nothing more than upped their weekly mileage to around even as low as 25 miles/week, who've had substantial increases in racing speed despite doing almost no speedwork in training. The key is to gradually increase to that level and then maintain it for several months. Once you get very comfortable with the increased mileage that you maintain for several months, then start adding in the other stuff like speedwork. In other words - don't put the cart before the horse. BTW, I'm one of the people who have used the more easy running approach very successfully. |
| 2009-08-21 9:18 AM in reply to: #2361909 |
Expert 1203 | Subject: RE: Running Speed Work All of the responses are exactly why I am confused... Almost every plan I have seen that would prepare me for a 1/2 marathon has no more than 3 to 4 runs a week. The ones I have seen with 4 runs a week typically include some sort of track speed work. I am a new runner and only recently ran my first 5K (3rd Week of June). I would run 25 miles per week if I was capable of it but I am not there yet. That is the whole point of why I am doing a beginner plan to build up to a 1/2 marathon. I am trying hard to include at least 1 Bike, 1 Swim and 1 Strength session but I have a very limited schedule and 2-a-days are not going to happen. I am not discounting the responses as I am very appreciative of any help I can get. So the workout plans I have found all suggest some sort of speed work and so far here everyone has said forget that and just run more. They also all have at least 2 recovery days but I am hearing I am not doing enough with only 1 recovery day. Ughh, this is all so confusing. |
| 2009-08-21 9:18 AM in reply to: #2362006 |
Champion 7233 | Subject: RE: Running Speed Work right now all that is going to do is get you hurt fast. 1- you are not running enough to see the gains from that 2- thats not much slower (like a few sec) than i am doing 400m repeats, and my 5k time is around 17:30 right now. 3- you need to be running more, a lot more, for the speed work to be needed to get the last bit out of your training. |
| 2009-08-21 9:25 AM in reply to: #2361909 |
Member 142 | Subject: RE: Running Speed Work Yes, running more will benefit your overall fitness and race performances. BUT, I think that some tempo work on the track or roads will help to train your body and muscles to run at a faster pace. I was in a rut where no matter what distance I ran, it was at the same pace. My 5K pace was not much faster than my half marathon pace. I just was not comfortable at a pace faster than say 9:30 per mile. I have been doing some tempo work to get my legs adjusted to a faster pace and it has been paying off. My 2010 goals: Run a spring Marathon. Run a 25 min 5k. Finish a sprint in under 1:37. |
| 2009-08-21 9:32 AM in reply to: #2362094 |
Resident Curmudgeon 25290 The Road Back Gold member | Subject: RE: Running Speed Work Batlou - 2009-08-21 9:18 AM All of the responses are exactly why I am confused... Almost every plan I have seen that would prepare me for a 1/2 marathon has no more than 3 to 4 runs a week. The ones I have seen with 4 runs a week typically include some sort of track speed work. I am a new runner and only recently ran my first 5K (3rd Week of June). I would run 25 miles per week if I was capable of it but I am not there yet. That is the whole point of why I am doing a beginner plan to build up to a 1/2 marathon. I am trying hard to include at least 1 Bike, 1 Swim and 1 Strength session but I have a very limited schedule and 2-a-days are not going to happen. I am not discounting the responses as I am very appreciative of any help I can get. So the workout plans I have found all suggest some sort of speed work and so far here everyone has said forget that and just run more. They also all have at least 2 recovery days but I am hearing I am not doing enough with only 1 recovery day. Ughh, this is all so confusing. Here is a beginner plan for a half marathon with no speedwork, has you running four days a week and a cross-training day on which I would run. You have to decide what your goals are, what time you have to devote to those goals, and how you get there. It could turn out that your "limited schedule" won't let you get to those goals at this point in your life. |
| 2009-08-21 9:33 AM in reply to: #2361909 |
Expert 1203 | Subject: RE: Running Speed Work BTW...I am basing my plan off of Hal Higdon's Novice Runners 15-K Training Guide. So this is what his plan would have me do this week as it compares to mine. I have started at Week 3 based on my current fitness level. I picked this one as it most closely models what I am currently doing.
* I made this a speed workout as they are always a shorter run typically about 1/2 of what the long run that would be planned for that week. My thinking was that all of the other plans had some sort of speed or interval work so I thought the short run would be best suited for that type of plan. ** Note Pool is closed through the end of the month. Will start swimming again when it re-opens. Edited by Batlou 2009-08-21 9:42 AM |
| 2009-08-21 9:34 AM in reply to: #2362114 |
Resident Curmudgeon 25290 The Road Back Gold member | Subject: RE: Running Speed Work sipe - 2009-08-21 9:25 AM Yes, running more will benefit your overall fitness and race performances. BUT, I think that some tempo work on the track or roads will help to train your body and muscles to run at a faster pace. I was in a rut where no matter what distance I ran, it was at the same pace. My 5K pace was not much faster than my half marathon pace. I just was not comfortable at a pace faster than say 9:30 per mile. I have been doing some tempo work to get my legs adjusted to a faster pace and it has been paying off. My 2010 goals: Run a spring Marathon. Run a 25 min 5k. Finish a sprint in under 1:37. Not very much volume showing in your logs. Just saying. But yeah, running at a constant slow pace isn't going to get you there. I did say build your base, then add strides, hill work, tempo runs and finally intervals. |
| 2009-08-21 9:41 AM in reply to: #2362094 |
Expert 2555 Colorado Springs, Colorado | Subject: RE: Running Speed Work Batlou - 2009-08-21 8:18 AM All of the responses are exactly why I am confused... Almost every plan I have seen that would prepare me for a 1/2 marathon has no more than 3 to 4 runs a week. The ones I have seen with 4 runs a week typically include some sort of track speed work. I am a new runner and only recently ran my first 5K (3rd Week of June). I would run 25 miles per week if I was capable of it but I am not there yet. That is the whole point of why I am doing a beginner plan to build up to a 1/2 marathon. I am trying hard to include at least 1 Bike, 1 Swim and 1 Strength session but I have a very limited schedule and 2-a-days are not going to happen. I am not discounting the responses as I am very appreciative of any help I can get. So the workout plans I have found all suggest some sort of speed work and so far here everyone has said forget that and just run more. They also all have at least 2 recovery days but I am hearing I am not doing enough with only 1 recovery day. Ughh, this is all so confusing. Perhaps the confusion is because many half marathon plans start with the basic assumption a person is already running X number of miles per week and has a solid base to work from. My wife is currently training for a half marathon using one of Hal Higdon's plans. However, she started with a base of running about 15 miles/week consistently for several years. Your log indicates you aren't even running 10 miles/week consistently. Do you see the difference? You can't jump into a plan without having a base already - unless you're doing some kind of couch to X distance plan. I highly doubt that a couch to half marathon plan would be calling for any kind of speedwork in the initial phases. When you ask a question here, you're going to get responses from people who haven't looked at your log and have assumed your running is further along than it really is. Other people will look at where you're really at and base their advice from that position. For example; I often run almost twice as many miles in a week as you do in a month, so if I gave you advice based on what I'm doing it might be useless. People who tell you to do tempo runs or intervals now most likely haven't looked at your log. Almost any good training plan will advise against doing speedwork until a person has established a solid base. A solid base is not running less than 10 miles/week for any period of time. That's why several people have already indicated you should just work on increasing your mileage gradually. It could take you 3-6 months or more to even get to the point where you're even starting to establish a solid base and then several months of maintaining that before you're ready for speedwork. Be patient! |
| 2009-08-21 9:55 AM in reply to: #2362162 |
Expert 1203 | Subject: RE: Running Speed Work Donskiman - 2009-08-21 9:41 AM Perhaps the confusion is because many half marathon plans start with the basic assumption a person is already running X number of miles per week and has a solid base to work from. My wife is currently training for a half marathon using one of Hal Higdon's plans. However, she started with a base of running about 15 miles/week consistently for several years. Your log indicates you aren't even running 10 miles/week consistently. Do you see the difference? You can't jump into a plan without having a base already - unless you're doing some kind of couch to X distance plan. I highly doubt that a couch to half marathon plan would be calling for any kind of speedwork in the initial phases. When you ask a question here, you're going to get responses from people who haven't looked at your log and have assumed your running is further along than it really is. Other people will look at where you're really at and base their advice from that position. For example; I often run almost twice as many miles in a week as you do in a month, so if I gave you advice based on what I'm doing it might be useless. People who tell you to do tempo runs or intervals now most likely haven't looked at your log. Almost any good training plan will advise against doing speedwork until a person has established a solid base. A solid base is not running less than 10 miles/week for any period of time. That's why several people have already indicated you should just work on increasing your mileage gradually. It could take you 3-6 months or more to even get to the point where you're even starting to establish a solid base and then several months of maintaining that before you're ready for speedwork. Be patient! Thanks, I guess this is what I was looking for. Suggesting that I increase my running to 25 miles per week will not help me now because I simply cannot run that far, yet. I completed the C25K plan in June and was able to finish 2 Sprint Triathlons finishing more or less MOP in the last one. Don't know how I compared to others on my first as it was cancelled prior to everyone finishing. My CRIT class is an interval training session and I only asked about speed work based on using Hal Higdons plan of Thursday being such a short run. I chose the 15K as my first milestone and then would build into a 1/2 Marathon from there. I am not trying to rush this at all which is why I am focusing now on a 1/2 marathon that is 7 months away. I had seen several other plans that had some sort of speed work so I thought with it being such a short run on thursdays it might be the perfect time to do some speed work. I am a very slow runner with a typical pace of around 10:30 to 10:45. However, I had a little breakthrough last week and ran 3 miles at around a 9:30 pace and felt good doing it. While that is still slow, relatively speaking, for me I felt like I was flying and wanted to figure out a way to work on continueing to improve my pace. |
| 2009-08-21 12:08 PM in reply to: #2362094 |
Extreme Veteran 567 Kingwood, TX | Subject: RE: Running Speed Work "...I am trying hard to include at least 1 Bike, 1 Swim and 1 Strength session..." Batlou, if your tri season is done and you want to do a 1/2 mary then stop the swim and bike and just run. Run 5 days a week. Now the weight training is still good, especially core, but if your goal is to do the half then stop the tri training and just run more. Your over-thinking it to much, causing a paralysis by analysis! Good luck. |
| 2009-08-21 12:14 PM in reply to: #2361909 |
Master 4119 Toronto Bronze member | Subject: RE: Running Speed Work If you're following a plan and it's working for you. Then keep doing so. I know we all get impatient but the plan will work you just gotta trust it. Again, building your base is a good suggest but should be done carefully and slowly - going from 3 to 5 days a week takes time - but your plan is probably doing that for you with different workouts and distances. |
| 2009-08-21 12:24 PM in reply to: #2362578 |
Champion 7233 | Subject: RE: Running Speed Work i dont agree with this (personal pref/thoughts, not saying you are wrong). my thoughts on that would be: one just because its working does not mean its the best choice. and 2there are a lot of pre-built plans that do not take anything into account, they are simply that, pre built and you have to find the one that best fits your lifestyle and training goals. |
| 2009-08-21 1:00 PM in reply to: #2362603 |
Master 4119 Toronto Bronze member | Subject: RE: Running Speed Work newbz - 2009-08-21 1:24 PM i dont agree with this (personal pref/thoughts, not saying you are wrong). my thoughts on that would be: one just because its working does not mean its the best choice. and 2there are a lot of pre-built plans that do not take anything into account, they are simply that, pre built and you have to find the one that best fits your lifestyle and training goals. He's following a Hal Higdon plan not something some dude told him and scribbled on the back of a napkin. I've heard people say they like his plans and others not so much. I haven't done one but i have no reason to discount it. Personally, I carefully review a plan before I go on it. I'll play around with it in my schedule and try to understand the philosophy behind it and then decide to do it. If i've picked it I allow it some time to see if it's working for me. But when I started I blindly followed the program of my local running specialty store and i was fine for a 10k. Higdon is such a well-respected figure in the running community I am venturing a guess (yes, I am assuming) that it follows a certain progression of build/cut-back and appropriate preparation for the distance. |
| 2009-08-21 1:15 PM in reply to: #2361909 |
Expert 1203 | Subject: RE: Running Speed Work It's 10 week plan that I am beginning from Week 3. Each Week adds a mile and each 4th week is a recovery week. I don't remember if I said this or not but I chose this particular plan over some of the others as it was best suited for my lifestyle and time constraints. |
| 2009-08-21 1:20 PM in reply to: #2361909 |
Expert 1203 | Subject: RE: Running Speed Work Again, thanks for the feedback. The bottom line is that I am learning as I go. 18 months ago I weighed 106 pounds more than I do right now and was working the C2F plan (Couch to Fridge). I am just happy that I have found something that works and fits my lifestyle regarding my way of eating and also my fitness goals. They are constantly evolving though as I better understand where I have been and where I am going. |
| 2009-08-21 1:30 PM in reply to: #2361909 |
Champion 19812 MA | Subject: RE: Running Speed Work I think you have been lots of good advice but conflicting advice as well. It sounds like you have time constraints, goals and have made some choices that makes it so all those things don't align up well. Only doing 1 workout a day and if you do 1 swim, bike and strength that gives you 3 runs if you take a rest day each week..not a lot of time running. Why not run early before work or at lunch. When I was increasing my runs some where 15 or 20 minutes and that doesn't take much time. If you have been running 25 miles per month by looking at your logs. You need to increase that gradually and safely and I agree with others above no need to do speed work now. Look how you feel today not great after attempting speed work. I have found this year I can run a lot more than I thought I could mostly in frequency and back to back days. It wasn't until I started running 30 miles per week that my easy aerobic pace dropped. I've been doing tris this is my 6th year. I'm considering doing a run focus this off season and see if I can up that mpw to more like 40-50 and see how that helps my running. I have a coach and follow what he tells me but often I run 4 or 5 times a week sometimes 2x a day. We built up gradually and I have stayed injury free this year. I've learned a lot about what might be possible for me and that yes running more really is the key. |
| 2009-08-21 5:56 PM in reply to: #2361909 |
Expert 828 | Subject: RE: Running Speed Work My running was not awful but I tried to make it better by picking up the pace more often...It did not work. My 5k times didn't change much at all. Many have posted "get a good base"...My experience tells me that is very true. I ended up improving by doing nothing but aerobic runs, increasing my mileage very slowly. Long story short. My mile times went from near 10 min, initially only for 2 miles, down to 8:03/mile without going out of my aerobic zone for 8 miles....that's when I started adding in strides. |
| 2009-08-21 7:05 PM in reply to: #2361909 |
| Member 195 Akron, OH | Subject: RE: Running Speed Work If your goal is to finish a half-mary and your current milage is low, you absolutely need to focus on slowly and steadily increasing your mileage. This will get you to your half-mary and will also likely dramatically increase your speed at slower distance along the way. I believe adding speed work at this time will not help you reach your goal any faster and will increase your risk of injury as well. Opinions will vary, so listen to everyone's reasoning and make your own decision. I'm an absolute believer in the building a base theory to running. |
| 2009-08-21 7:24 PM in reply to: #2363437 |
Champion 7233 | Subject: RE: Running Speed Work Rad-Onc PA - 2009-08-21 4:56 PM My running was not awful but I tried to make it better by picking up the pace more often...It did not work. My 5k times didn't change much at all. Many have posted "get a good base"...My experience tells me that is very true. I ended up improving by doing nothing but aerobic runs, increasing my mileage very slowly. Long story short. My mile times went from near 10 min, initially only for 2 miles, down to 8:03/mile without going out of my aerobic zone for 8 miles....that's when I started adding in strides. ding ding ding. good post and well said. |
| 2009-08-22 2:19 PM in reply to: #2361909 |
| 108 | Subject: RE: Running Speed Work It sounds like you already have a training plan that you are following and can stay on track with that while still doing some biking and running. Don't stress about adding a lot of mileage now -- just follow the plan if that's working for you. To address your specific question of doing speed work on your shorter Thursday runs, I think it is a chance to slightly pick up the pace. You don't have to go to a track to do any sort of highly structured workout. You can just pick up the pace slightly. For example, after you have warmed up, do 30 x 30s, which is run 30 seconds at a faster pace (like a moderately challenging pace, not an all out sprint) and then run 30 seconds at a normal, easy pace. Do this about 10 times or so. Or you can do it 1 min x 1 min. I like doing this on days when I feel sluggish and it helps me pick up the pace and get in a groove. If you feel sore the next day after doing this type of workout, then you are pushing yourself too much. I don't recommend doing any speedwork where you are doing an all out effort. This is how you can get injured. But I think its fine to challenge yourselt a bit more on your shorter run days. |
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