login
So why is it????
-
No new posts
|
 2009-08-25 9:52 AM |
Cycling Guru  15134    Fulton, MD |  Subject: So why is it????That threads that get into discussions about one's personal definition and interpretation or "finsish" versus "race" or ones on "timing requirements" or "race pacing" or etc. etc. always seem to degenerate get pared down to a few things: "All you FOP people treat the MOP and BOP like crap and are elitist." "The FOP don't enjoy the race and are too worried about 'x' or 'y' splits to have fun." "The FOP people just want the BOP out of the race." "Why do you care why they want to participate, they pay the same money as you?" I'm just trying to understand the mentality of classifying a group and then making blatant over-generalizations that seem to be founded on very distorted personal views. Even when someone posts something that is very neutral and/or contradicts those ^^^^ suggestions there still seems to be some serious animosity. Not looking for arguments and in-fighting. Just trying to open up the discussion on where this apparently one-sided "hatred" (for lack of a better word) comes from. From my personal experience, there are hardly any of those things evident in person from people on this board or in the tri community as a whole. Even the usual person on Slowtwitch that comes across as a total d-ck almost always ends up being a really nice guy/girl and very supportive of everyone in races. Other than someone getting frustrated in the middle of the race because their shoe got tangled up in someone's bike in transtion or someone swerves into another's path on the bike to avoid something (not intentionally), the tri crowd is extremely supportive and helpful toward other participants, volunteers and spectators. POLITELY discuss ............ Edited by Daremo 2009-08-25 9:54 AM |
| 2009-08-25 9:57 AM in reply to: #2368971 |
Champion 9600  Fountain Hills, AZ | Subject: RE: So why is it???? I am also very surprised when I hear this about this supposed class warfare between FOP and everyone else. I have never, not once, witnessed anything of the sort in the real world. As an FOP I enjoy being helpful and supportive of anyone participating in any sport. |
| 2009-08-25 10:03 AM in reply to: #2368989 |
Cycling Guru 15134 Fulton, MD | Subject: RE: So why is it???? I've been FOP, MOP and BOP ....... all depending on who shows up that day and how well prepared I was for the event. I've never been treated any differently or treated anyone else differently regardless of wear I placed. That is why I just don't understand where a lot of the comments come from. Do people really feel that others classify their "worth" based on their placing in a race?? I guess that is what I'm trying to fathom. |
| 2009-08-25 10:05 AM in reply to: #2368971 |
Champion 10154 Alabama | Subject: RE: So why is it???? I think FOP/MOP/BOP issues and discussion/debate reflect very real and heart-felt opinions. This site calls itself "Beginner" triathlon but I think that is misleading as we have beginners thru almost-professionals. I've been doing triathlons for 12 years but I still put myself in the beginer category becuase I'm a BOPer. This is probably wrong thinking but when I see guys going sub-10 hrs in their IM, I'm like "Good Lord, I'm not even in the same league with these guys!" So maybe there is a little inferiority complex. ;-) Anyway, my view from the BOP is that the FOP think that BOPers WANT to become FOPers. I have seen this is so many thread! Many people here assume that we are all trying to get faster and we are all trying to win. The worst people about this are the ones that say "...when I was a beginner, I was BOP too but now I'm winning my AG..." because they think that every BOPer should aspire to the same thing. Well, like the last dog in the dog-sled team said, "The view from the BOP is always the same....nothing but asholes infront of me!" j/k
~Mike |
| 2009-08-25 10:09 AM in reply to: #2368971 |
Extreme Veteran 417 Buford GA | Subject: RE: So why is it???? If FOPs wanted the BOPs out of the race then half the FOP would be BOP... just sayin'  |
| 2009-08-25 10:09 AM in reply to: #2368971 |
Champion 11989 Philly 'burbs | Subject: RE: So why is it???? all you people from Maryland love to stir the pot |
| 2009-08-25 10:11 AM in reply to: #2368971 |
Sneaky Slow 8694 Herndon, VA, | Subject: RE: So why is it???? Daremo - 2009-08-25 10:52 AM the mentality of classifying a group and then making blatant over-generalizations that seem to be founded on very distorted personal views Rogillio - 2009-08-25 11:05 AM The worst people about this are the ones that say "...when I was a beginner, I was BOP too but now I'm winning my AG..." because they think that every BOPer should aspire to the same thing. Case in point. I mean, really. How can anyone read into the minds of a group of people and identify their thoughts? |
| 2009-08-25 10:14 AM in reply to: #2369028 |
Champion 9600 Fountain Hills, AZ | Subject: RE: So why is it???? Rogillio - 2009-08-25 10:05 AM So maybe there is a little inferiority complex. ;-) Anyway, my view from the BOP is that the FOP think that BOPers WANT to become FOPers. I have seen this is so many thread! Many people here assume that we are all trying to get faster and we are all trying to win. The worst people about this are the ones that say "...when I was a beginner, I was BOP too but now I'm winning my AG..." because they think that every BOPer should aspire to the same thing. Well, like the last dog in the dog-sled team said, "The view from the BOP is always the same....nothing but asholes infront of me!" j/k
~Mike I don't understand, Mike, just because I race an IM under 10 hours and you go 15 but going 15 is what you want out of your experience as you have often implied, why would you feel inferior and how am I making you "feel" that way. That's just as an example. I don't wait around until 10-11:00 pm at an IM finish and tell everyone they are slow and make them feel bad! Also, why do you assume I or any FOP'er makes that assumption? Because we offer trainign advice when it's asked for? I don't assume to know anyones goals in the sport unless they express them. I do offer opinions regarding training and racing when they are solicited. |
| 2009-08-25 10:14 AM in reply to: #2369028 |
Cycling Guru 15134 Fulton, MD | Subject: RE: So why is it???? I would disagree in that what is usually stated (as far as what I perceive) is that the people who start off new and finish to the best of their ability may be BOP then. But if they enjoy it and continue to improve as well as they can, then quite often those same people move up in the field. It is not that people are saying that all people can become FOP if they work hard. It is people saying that often people put time and effort into improving and FIND themselves moving forward in the field because of the work they've done. One of the main reasons I run in pure running races is to remind myself that I am NOT all that when it comes to athletics. It is a good way for me to keep perspective as to what the real elite levels of endurance sports are all about. It absolutely blows my mind to see some of the splits some of the guys in my running club put up ....... at 45+ years old. Again, it really depends on who shows up that day in a race. Goes back to a thread a month or so ago about someone getting upset that a few local elites showed up to a race and claimed AG prizes because it was a small race. That person felt like the faster ladies were "taking" AG award spots from others. Really?????? |
| 2009-08-25 10:14 AM in reply to: #2369028 |
Champion 10471 Dallas, TX | Subject: RE: So why is it???? Rogillio - 2009-08-25 10:05 AM I think FOP/MOP/BOP issues and discussion/debate reflect very real and heart-felt opinions. This site calls itself "Beginner" triathlon but I think that is misleading as we have beginners thru almost-professionals. I've been doing triathlons for 12 years but I still put myself in the beginer category becuase I'm a BOPer. This is probably wrong thinking but when I see guys going sub-10 hrs in their IM, I'm like "Good Lord, I'm not even in the same league with these guys!" So maybe there is a little inferiority complex. ;-) Anyway, my view from the BOP is that the FOP think that BOPers WANT to become FOPers. I have seen this is so many thread! Many people here assume that we are all trying to get faster and we are all trying to win. The worst people about this are the ones that say "...when I was a beginner, I was BOP too but now I'm winning my AG..." because they think that every BOPer should aspire to the same thing. Well, like the last dog in the dog-sled team said, "The view from the BOP is always the same....nothing but asholes infront of me!" j/k
~Mike Yeah, that's pretty much what I was going to say. Being a BOP/MOP person... I always just figured that the FOPers were looking down on me... how sad that I was so slow. I'm sure they weren't. In fact, I'm sure they didn't even know I existed because they were all taking their bikes out of transition and going home while I was still running. HA! Anyways... it wasn't till this year... that even winning my AG was a possibility. It's not something I aspired to before... but then in a tri I came in 4th place, missed 3rd by 4 seconds. And it got me thinking..."If I could only do X on the bike and X on the run...." While I don't think anyone should aspire to that... being as close as I was... I would like to try to take a shot at doing it next year (this year my focus is my Half Ironman in Oct.). Doesn't mean I think I'm great, or that anyone else should do the same, or that I look down on anyone... it's the complete opposite! Shoot, it's taken me 5 years... to even have any hope of placing in my AG. I know what it's like being at the back. That's for sure. And I'll be seeing the back again at my Half Ironman! |
| 2009-08-25 10:16 AM in reply to: #2368971 |
Pro 3906 Libertyville, IL | Subject: RE: So why is it???? Cuz folks dont understand each others definitions of 'fun'. I have many different ones, but if its a long painful event or something fast and my heart is about to jump out of my chest, Im having a good time. I ran a 15k in a gd viking costume and hit the beer stops too. People want to be accepted is all. |
| 2009-08-25 10:16 AM in reply to: #2368971 |
Champion 10154 Alabama | Subject: RE: So why is it???? More more thought...
The "it never gets easier" thread is a good example of what I mean about the FOPers assuming that all BOPers aspire to become FOPers. This type of thead had been posted many times....in fact, one time I posted that "it DOES get easier" and Rick, you posted that I was not training hard enought. I know you were joking but maybe some beginner BOPers did not. If you tell a beginner who is struggling to run 1 mile that "it never gets easier" he's likely just to say f' it, I'm not gonna spend the rest of my life killing myself. The truth is, the "it never gets easier" is BS! It's bravado. It does get easier and if you don't think it does than maybe you have always been an athlete or just don't remember how hard it was to s/b/r when you first strated.
~Mike |
| 2009-08-25 10:17 AM in reply to: #2368971 |
Expert 2555 Colorado Springs, Colorado | Subject: RE: So why is it???? I think it comes down to people having different priorities and placing emphasis on different things, then not being able to fully relate each other. A person in it to win or race FOP has a different mindset than a person racing for fun or to challenge themselves as they change lifestyles from being sedentary to being more active. People who don't possess the desire and/or ability to win may not fully understand those who are driven to push hard enough to win and vice versa. No single way is right for all people. |
| 2009-08-25 10:17 AM in reply to: #2369028 |
Master 1547 | Subject: RE: So why is it???? Rogillio - 2009-08-25 8:05 AM ... Anyway, my view from the BOP is that the FOP think that BOPers WANT to become FOPers. I have seen this is so many thread! Many people here assume that we are all trying to get faster and we are all trying to win. The worst people about this are the ones that say "...when I was a beginner, I was BOP too but now I'm winning my AG..." because they think that every BOPer should aspire to the same thing. ...Mike, I think the thought of BOP wanting to get faster is normal. I for one, in sport and in professional work, have never associated myself with someone that wasn't trying to achieve more. It seems that most people in this sport (at HIM or IM at least) are not just in it for a thing to do on the weekend but rather something they are committing LOTS of time to. To commit that kind of effort to something and then not try to get better...it's a little contradicting. What you said about inferiority complex could have something to do with the statements that are being made. Again, I must parallel with work. I have been to awards night for sales many times and heard "that guy is a maniac, all he does is work", or, "that territory has no competition, not like where I live", etc. I have to ask the wife (psychologist) what she thinks about it. There could be something mental in the separatism starting from the back but not necessarily working in the other direction. This could be the same argument as the attitudes of Rich vs Poor. |
| 2009-08-25 10:19 AM in reply to: #2369066 |
Champion 10154 Alabama | Subject: RE: So why is it???? KSH - 2009-08-25 10:14 AM Rogillio - 2009-08-25 10:05 AM Yeah, that's pretty much what I was going to say. Being a BOP/MOP person... I always just figured that the FOPers were looking down on me... how sad that I was so slow. I'm sure they weren't. In fact, I'm sure they didn't even know I existed because they were all taking their bikes out of transition and going home while I was still running. HA! Anyways... it wasn't till this year... that even winning my AG was a possibility. It's not something I aspired to before... but then in a tri I came in 4th place, missed 3rd by 4 seconds. And it got me thinking..."If I could only do X on the bike and X on the run...." While I don't think anyone should aspire to that... being as close as I was... I would like to try to take a shot at doing it next year (this year my focus is my Half Ironman in Oct.). Doesn't mean I think I'm great, or that anyone else should do the same, or that I look down on anyone... it's the complete opposite! Shoot, it's taken me 5 years... to even have any hope of placing in my AG. I know what it's like being at the back. That's for sure. And I'll be seeing the back again at my Half Ironman! I think FOP/MOP/BOP issues and discussion/debate reflect very real and heart-felt opinions. This site calls itself "Beginner" triathlon but I think that is misleading as we have beginners thru almost-professionals. I've been doing triathlons for 12 years but I still put myself in the beginer category becuase I'm a BOPer. This is probably wrong thinking but when I see guys going sub-10 hrs in their IM, I'm like "Good Lord, I'm not even in the same league with these guys!" So maybe there is a little inferiority complex. ;-) Anyway, my view from the BOP is that the FOP think that BOPers WANT to become FOPers. I have seen this is so many thread! Many people here assume that we are all trying to get faster and we are all trying to win. The worst people about this are the ones that say "...when I was a beginner, I was BOP too but now I'm winning my AG..." because they think that every BOPer should aspire to the same thing. Well, like the last dog in the dog-sled team said, "The view from the BOP is always the same....nothing but asholes infront of me!" j/k
~Mike
I am so proud of you Karen. I still remember you posting "I hate, hate, hate running!" and now you are looking to place/win your AG! You've come a long way baby! ~Mike |
| 2009-08-25 10:20 AM in reply to: #2368971 |
Member 94 Austin, TX | Subject: RE: So why is it???? From a newbie's perspective: |
| 2009-08-25 10:22 AM in reply to: #2368971 |
Expert 632 Cornfields of Illinois | Subject: RE: So why is it???? Good questions and i think there are only a "couple" out of the thousands of BTers that think that way. I have only been a member for a little over a year and any question that i have asked have been answered truthfully and compassionately by members and everyone is always supportive. I took this season off to concentrate on running and yet still get encouragement from people on here even though i am not doing tris this season. Just like any situation in life you always have a couple people that believe they are better than the rest and turn up their nose at the MOP and BOP'ers. I say let them, without my entry fees and most MOP and BOP entry fees, they don't have a race to participate in and if they do, they certainly wouldn't have the volunteer support. I've resigned to the fact that i am not genetically blessed as a runner or swimmer but the COMPETITION INSIDE MY HEAD is what keeps me training and keeps me racing (or finishing depending on my goal for each race). I've no interest in winning the race or placing in my AG...if i ever do it's because i have challenged myself and made myself a better athlete that just got lucky. In the meantime, i will continue to support the elitists by paying my entry fees (or volunteering at races) while shuffling along in the run part HOPING their still enough water/gel/energy drinks left for me to enjoy and enjoying post race activities with the friends i have made along the way. |
| 2009-08-25 10:23 AM in reply to: #2369079 |
Champion 9600 Fountain Hills, AZ | Subject: RE: So why is it???? Rogillio - 2009-08-25 10:16 AM More more thought...
The "it never gets easier" thread is a good example of what I mean about the FOPers assuming that all BOPers aspire to become FOPers. This type of thead had been posted many times....in fact, one time I posted that "it DOES get easier" and Rick, you posted that I was not training hard enought. I know you were joking but maybe some beginner BOPers did not. If you tell a beginner who is struggling to run 1 mile that "it never gets easier" he's likely just to say f' it, I'm not gonna spend the rest of my life killing myself. The truth is, the "it never gets easier" is BS! It's bravado. It does get easier and if you don't think it does than maybe you have always been an athlete or just don't remember how hard it was to s/b/r when you first strated.
~Mike The qoute refers to training where the purpose of the training is to continue to improve. By saying that it is true that the more you improve, the faster you get, but the work is still hard, is 100% accurate. If someone chooses to stay at a certain level of perfromance and enjoy that, then yes, it does get easier, and that's fine. It's not bravado, it's just different approaches to training, the sport, the lifestyle, ect. Edited by bryancd 2009-08-25 10:26 AM |
| 2009-08-25 10:24 AM in reply to: #2369053 |
Champion 10154 Alabama | Subject: RE: So why is it???? newleaf - 2009-08-25 10:11 AM Daremo - 2009-08-25 10:52 AM the mentality of classifying a group and then making blatant over-generalizations that seem to be founded on very distorted personal views Rogillio - 2009-08-25 11:05 AM The worst people about this are the ones that say "...when I was a beginner, I was BOP too but now I'm winning my AG..." because they think that every BOPer should aspire to the same thing. Case in point. I mean, really. How can anyone read into the minds of a group of people and identify their thoughts?
You're kidding right? Can you not see intent in someone's post? Does that mean you are 'reading their mind'? No. It simply means you understand what message they were trying to covery. Either their thoughts came our of their mind or our of their arse...sometimes it's hard to tell around here. ;-) ~Mike |
| 2009-08-25 10:27 AM in reply to: #2369079 |
Cycling Guru 15134 Fulton, MD | Subject: RE: So why is it???? Rogillio - 2009-08-25 11:16 AM More more thought...
The "it never gets easier" thread is a good example of what I mean about the FOPers assuming that all BOPers aspire to become FOPers. This type of thead had been posted many times....in fact, one time I posted that "it DOES get easier" and Rick, you posted that I was not training hard enought. I know you were joking but maybe some beginner BOPers did not. If you tell a beginner who is struggling to run 1 mile that "it never gets easier" he's likely just to say f' it, I'm not gonna spend the rest of my life killing myself. The truth is, the "it never gets easier" is BS! It's bravado. It does get easier and if you don't think it does than maybe you have always been an athlete or just don't remember how hard it was to s/b/r when you first strated.
~Mike And I would respectfully disagree. It does not get "easier" unless you set a certain time limit for your pace and then cap your effort to stay there. AT THAT POINT of course it is "easier." Instead of pushing the effort level to the same point that they did in the first run, they've allowed their body adaptations to take place and THEY GOT BETTER and more efficient at that pace. Instead of applying the same level of effort, the person has set a benchmark pace and made themselves stick there. But if that same person was able to take the level of effort that they ran that initial pace at and applied it to the later run, 99.9% of the time they will be faster. If someone is comfortable at a single pace and puts the work in ......... only to make that pace easier, that is their choice! They know almost exactly where they will be in every single run or race they do for time because they choose to run the same every time. It is disingenious to tell someone that it gets easier because if they continue to put out the same effort they did before, it is NOT any easier. Running Z4 is running Z4 is running Z4. It hurts, no matter how fast or slow you are. The only difference between the person pushing their best effort in the front of a 5k and the person pushing their best effort towards the back of the race is the finishing time. The faster person merely has to put up with the discomfort for a shorter period. Which makes it all the more impressive when you consider the person in the back has just done THAT MUCH MORE to get to the finish. |
| 2009-08-25 10:27 AM in reply to: #2368971 |
Master 2621 Almaden Valley, San Jose, California | Subject: RE: So why is it???? I'm a BOP - very new at this. I WANT to get faster - and I'm willing to work for it. I doubt that I'll ever be FOP, but that doesn't mean I'm not trying for it. I have a very competitive personality, and while I know that everybody's brain is wired differently, I think it's human nature to project your own traits onto others - i.e., "I want to finish higher in my AG, therefore, you must want that, too!" Not a good practice mind you, but a common one, I think. Honestly, I figure that if I keep all of this up long enough, I'll outlast/outlive my competition and start rising in the ranks! |
| 2009-08-25 10:29 AM in reply to: #2369104 |
Champion 10154 Alabama | Subject: RE: So why is it???? bryancd - 2009-08-25 10:23 AM Rogillio - 2009-08-25 10:16 AM The qoute refers to training where the purpose of the training is to continue to improve. By saying that it is true that the more you improve, the faster you get, but the work is still hard, is 100% accurate. If someone chooses to stay at a certain level of perfromance and enjoy that, then yes, it does get weasier, and that's fine. It's not bravado, it's just different approaches to training, the sport, the lifestyle, ect. More more thought...
The "it never gets easier" thread is a good example of what I mean about the FOPers assuming that all BOPers aspire to become FOPers. This type of thead had been posted many times....in fact, one time I posted that "it DOES get easier" and Rick, you posted that I was not training hard enought. I know you were joking but maybe some beginner BOPers did not. If you tell a beginner who is struggling to run 1 mile that "it never gets easier" he's likely just to say f' it, I'm not gonna spend the rest of my life killing myself. The truth is, the "it never gets easier" is BS! It's bravado. It does get easier and if you don't think it does than maybe you have always been an athlete or just don't remember how hard it was to s/b/r when you first strated.
~Mike
OK Bryan, let's get back to the basics. There are two side to every communication, transmit and receive. I'm talking about how I perceive it...not (necessarily) how you meant it. Yeah, technically if you want to improve, I guess you should live a life of pain and suffering. Just not for me. A man's got to know his limitations...and live within them. ~Mike |
| 2009-08-25 10:30 AM in reply to: #2368971 |
Master 1547 | Subject: RE: So why is it???? my thoughts exactly Velcro...we DO WANT to achieve more. WHy else do it. Who puts time into something just so they can suck at it? Success is relative in this sport though. Like you Velcro, I don't expect to be FOP any time soon...but I surely want to get better as time goes on and I am willing to work for it. ............... btw, "VelcroMom"...how many kids do you have? j/k |
| 2009-08-25 10:34 AM in reply to: #2369128 |
Cycling Guru 15134 Fulton, MD | Subject: RE: So why is it???? Rogillio - 2009-08-25 11:29 AM OK Bryan, let's get back to the basics. There are two side to every communication, transmit and receive. I'm talking about how I perceive it...not (necessarily) how you meant it. Yeah, technically if you want to improve, I guess you should live a life of pain and suffering. Just not for me. A man's got to know his limitations...and live within them. ~Mike And that is perfectly fine as it is the path you have chosen with your training. But it still goes back to ....... you choose to work to make the same pace easier. You do not choose to continue to put out the level of effort you did earlier on and see your times improve. Nothing wrong with that, no judgement from others (perhaps some questions as to why someone would choose that path based on what she said up above about projecting values) and perfectly acceptable because it is what you have clearly delineated as your goals. But others do not "condemn" your efforts as a result. |
| 2009-08-25 10:34 AM in reply to: #2368971 |
Expert 1187 Ontario | Subject: RE: So why is it???? I've noticed this too in this forum and don't understand it. I've found the FOP people in this forum to be extremely helpful in answering questions posted here and have never seen any 'elitism' attitudes that people accuse them of. I'm talking about the regulars here, we all know who they are because they post often. My own theory is that there is a jealousy factor involved. I don't believe any BOPer would not love to podium some day. I was 2nd in my AG once and I was thrilled. I really think the people who are posting negatively towards the FOP racers are actually jealous of your success especially if they think they train more than you do and still remain BOP. Nothing you say will change this. Please know that not all of us at the back feel that way. I think the FOP people on BT are awesome!! |
|
|
|
|
View profile
Add to friends
Go to training log
Go to race log
Send a message
View album
CONNECT WITH FACEBOOK