Brokeback Mountain Message - Possible spoiler
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Pro ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I'm not too sure what the message the movie was trying to get at. Whether it's better to stay in the closet...well, that can't be the message because of the way the movie ended. Better to come out the closet? Well, I'm not sure about that either. I mean, coming out (no pun intended) of the movie, I was like, "it must be depressing to be gay." Not in a sarcastic or negative way, I just felt kind of bad. Anyways, maybe i'm trying to find something more than the obvious, that it's just a film about these two gay guys in love. I believe the director is gay so I thought there was a message he was trying to get across, just not sure exactly what it is. Any thoughts? (On a side note, the monotone dialogue and slow pace of the movie was killing me). Edited by auto208562 2006-01-18 2:46 AM |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() auto208562 - 2006-01-18 2:30 AM I'm not too sure what the message the movie was trying to get at. Whether it's better to stay in the closet...well, that can't be the message because of the way the movie ended. Better to come out the closet? Well, I'm not sure about that either. I mean, coming out (no pun intended) of the movie, I was like, "it must be depressing to be gay." Not in a sarcastic or negative way, I just felt kind of bad. Anyways, maybe i'm trying to find something more than the obvious, that it's just a film about these two gay guys in love. I believe the director is gay so I thought there was a message he was trying to get across, just not sure exactly what it is. Any thoughts? (On a side note, the monotone dialogue and slow pace of the movie was killing me). Message? because the director was gay there must be a message? How about it's a love story, a movie, that happens to have gay people in it? And that movie made you think it must be depressing to be gay? Are you SERIOUSLY telling me that what you saw in ONE movie leads you to this conclusion? the movie is not about being gay, it's about one particular gay couple in one particular time and place. I can;t believe I have to explain this. Do you think so long and hard about message and extrapolate abolut the director and what the movie must say about an entire group of people every time you go to the movies? Wish I could stay and watch this thread... |
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Giver ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Yeah...I guess you could watch Garden State and get the idea that it's depressing to be straight.
possum - 2006-01-18 6:17 AM And that movie made you think it must be depressing to be gay? Are you SERIOUSLY telling me that what you saw in ONE movie leads you to this conclusion? the movie is not about being gay, it's about one particular gay couple in one particular time and place. I can;t believe I have to explain this. |
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Pro ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I am not a big fan of this director (style, etc) but it doesn't occur to me that there is any "message" behind this movie. Just another love story, where the main characters are both men. |
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![]() | ![]() I think the message is in the surrounding hype, not the movie. Isn't the movie just a simple story (as previously stated) about two people? It's everyone else's reaction, both positive and negative, that is the message. At least that's the way I see it. |
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Giver ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Slight hijack: A few years ago, there was a South Park episode about an independent film festival coming to town. Kyle complained that every film was about "gay cowboys eating pudding." So now there's been an independent film made about gay cowboys (not sure if there's a pudding--eating scene or not, but whatever), and I haven't heard a single person or media outlet (not even Entertainment Weekly) make a gay-cowboys-eating-pudding joke. I think that's weird. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Then you obviously didn't see me on the way to the theater I was killing the south park reference. I finally get the requisite eye roll and when that didn't work the always popular, "Will you shut up...I have no idea what you are talking about" that I usally get when I say something that only I get or think is funny. I get it a lot. |
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Giver ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() That's exactly what I get! Just these vague, glazed-over looks like I'm speaking Esperanto or something.
rbschlesinger - 2006-01-18 9:15 AM "Will you shut up...I have no idea what you are talking about" |
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Pro ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Sorry Possum. I actually did think there was a possible underlying message and I did come out of the movie talking about it. I can't believe you can't see the possibility that film makers could make a movie with a possible other motive. Whether it's a political or social or whatever agenda. Did you watch Syriana? No underlying message? I guess you thought that movie was just about oil. Edited by auto208562 2006-01-18 8:29 AM |
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Giver![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I think the underlying motive for most film makers is to make money. Probably not Ang Lee, though. I took a class in semiotics in college, and it was fascinating. There's actually more subtext in visual arts than most people realize. auto208562 - 2006-01-18 9:28 AM Sorry Possum. I actually did think there was a possible underlying message and I did come out of the movie talking about it. I can't believe you can't see the possibility that film makers could make a movie with a possible other motive. Whether it's a political or social or whatever agenda. Did you watch Syriana? No underlying message? I guess you thought that movie was just about oil. |
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Extreme Veteran![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() It was directed by Ang Lee of "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon" fame. I've looked around and can't find any mention that the man is gay, but that's not a requirement to direct the movie. The movie was based on a short story written by Annie Proulx in the New Yorker back in 97, so the message is probably her's. My brother in law is gay and he is rarely depressed. In fact, he is usually very upbeat and happy to be doing whatever he's doing at that moment. Whenever he has friends over they seem to be much the same. Maybe the message of the movie (and I haven't seen it so this is only a guess) was more along the lines of what society's reactions can do to a person. You might get a better perspective on the whole thing if you read the original story. But I can't find it anywhere online right now. |
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![]() The movie is simply a take on the old theme of "impossible love story" a la Romeo and Juliette. That's all. That's it. You are trying to read too much into it. Just because you weren't moved my the love story does not mean you missed something - for whatever reason (?) it didn't strike a chord with you. I saw it with my very happily gay friend. Are you actually saying you don't know any gay people? |
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Giver![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() In film, most subtext isn't in the overall message of the movie (afterall, directors don't normally write), it's more in the message, feeling or mood they are trying to convey in a particular scene. As in, why is baby carying those watermellons so clumsily in "Dirty Dancing"? And if you really want to see some gay subtext, just watch "Top Gun". |
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![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I don't think auto's point is that gay people are actually depressed. I think it was more the implication of the movie. Since it's about the only mainstream movie about gay lovers, it DOES carry some responsibility, like it or not. And it's not a spin on Romeo and Juliet...more like a greek tragedy...The only reason two men were used in a fairly mainstream movie is for the shock value, that unfortunately still exists toward homosexual relationships. This movie wasn't good. The only reason it got hype was because trendy hollywood wants to show how down it is with "the gays". Please. I can think of a million better gay love stories just from people I know. |
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Giver![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I'm pretty sure two men were used because there were two men in Annie Prouxl's story.
Calmdown - 2006-01-18 10:09 AM The only reason two men were used in a fairly mainstream movie is for the shock value... |
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![]() Calmdown - 2006-01-18 9:09 AM I don't think auto's point is that gay people are actually depressed. I think it was more the implication of the movie. Since it's about the only mainstream movie about gay lovers, it DOES carry some responsibility, like it or not. And it's not a spin on Romeo and Juliet...more like a greek tragedy...The only reason two men were used in a fairly mainstream movie is for the shock value, that unfortunately still exists toward homosexual relationships. This movie wasn't good. The only reason it got hype was because trendy hollywood wants to show how down it is with "the gays". Please. I can think of a million better gay love stories just from people I know. I didn't say it was Romeo and Juliette - I said it was like it in that it is an impossible love story. When circustances make love impossible. In today's era, the characters would have had a very different relationship, and that's part of the point of the story: when and where they are and how that limits possiblities. In this way it most closely resembles a Victorian novel. Personally, I found the relationship so remarkably un-shocking, that it transcended what you call it's "shock value". That was Lee's point. |
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Regular![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I have a lot to add to this thread...unfortunately I must go to work, so I will add my twenty cents later tonight. |
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Elite![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() It seems to me that the story is not so much about "impossible love" but moreso about the difficulty of life and love on the margins of society. The couple could just as easily have been an interracial heterosexual couple in Mississippi in the 1950's and brought the same meaningful story to light. It just so happens that this one is set in 1960's - 70's ranch/cowboy Wyoming which, if today is any indicator, was about the last place you'd want to be discovered as a homosexual. What I came away with was a deeper conviction that homosexuality is not a conscious choice that a person makes. I can't imagine any reason why most people would choose a life on the margins of society. That's not to say that today's gay population resides there but its definitely a different life than your average heterosexual. I also came away with even more compassion for my gay friends. Relationships aren't easy to begin with - we all know that. It seems the addition of the stress that the social stigma brings could crush a lot of would-be couples. Can you tell I loved the movie? Hopefully Heath Ledger gets the Oscar. I thought his performance was incredible. I haven't seen Capote, however. Its next on my list. Tom |
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Member![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() newbiedoo - 2006-01-18 8:27 AM Personally, I found the relationship so remarkably un-shocking, that it transcended what you call it's "shock value". That was Lee's point. I saw the movie and I agree with newbiedoo. The fact that the movie sold out in a western cowboy town like mine says something about that. I went with two other girls (our significant others were much too manly i mean homophobic to see it) and after the movie we could not stop talking about the dynamics of the film. The movie IS fantastic-although at times uncomfortable for some. While curiosity about the storyline and all the media hype may have gotten me to buy my ticket (and I confess, a huge crush on heath ledger), it was the shocking normalcy of their lives that resonated with me. I don't think there is a "message" here beyond our culture learning to appreciate love where love exists. And guess what-love between two gruff tuff men can be as uplifting and heartbreaking as any other love story we've ever heard. Their relationship could not exist for them outside of the vacuum-privacy of the wilderness. I was sad for them (the main characters) too after the movie. How awful it must be to feel the euphoria of love and at the same time hate yourself out of confusion and fear that you might be found out. Don't write this movie off as media hype-the story and the actors/director deserve recognition. If at any moment the movie had slipped into a cliche about gay love it never would have been taken seriously by main stream media. The movie shows one example of how a homosexual realtionship is not a cliche-it's as natural and powerful as boy-meets-girl. |
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![]() Betty & Tom - Well said! ![]() |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() run4yrlif - 2006-01-18 8:29 AM Slight hijack: A few years ago, there was a South Park episode about an independent film festival coming to town. Kyle complained that every film was about "gay cowboys eating pudding." So now there's been an independent film made about gay cowboys (not sure if there's a pudding--eating scene or not, but whatever), and I haven't heard a single person or media outlet (not even Entertainment Weekly) make a gay-cowboys-eating-pudding joke. I think that's weird. Addition to slight hijack: That South Park episode was funny as hell. |
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Regular![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() For me, the movie really captured what is going on in our country right now with the gay politcal/social agenda. A lot of stuff I wanted to say has already been brought up, about how the movie works as a social commentary for what gay people must work through, and how it really just highlights the fact the love is love is love, that there are no boundaries. But I also think the movie means something a little different to those of us who are gay and those of us who are straight. I think it is easier for the straight population to watch the movie and think that it is just a love story, or just a social commentary, without really putting backing on to it of what is happening and has happened that would give the movie so much hype. Despite all of the talk about equality and rights, even in the light of civil unions, gay marriage and hate crime punishments, gay people still live (in most areas of the country) with an attached stigma. In most places, it is not okay to walk around holding hands or show affection, or do any one of the numerous things that straight couples take for granted. In many places, you can still be verbally, or worse, physically attacked for being gay. People still get killed because of it. And speaking from the experience of having worked on a ranch in Wyoming, it is not okay to be gay, and if you are you had better pretend you're not or you risk losing the social structure that is the base of your life and being outcast from the small community that surrounds you. So I think this movie can serve as a wake-up call as well as a nice love story. I think it is asking people to challenge their standard view of love, to understand that we gays folks go through the same torment of love and loss but often without having any kind of support net in which to lean on. And maybe, because there is so much hype and talk surrounding the movie, that there will be more communication on all levels about equality. Maybe I am optimistic, but that is what the movie showed me. Oh yeah, since some people have felt that is must be depressing to be gay after watching this movie: Please don't. I am going to out myself, and say that I am happier than most people I know, but I can guarantee that part of it is because I have an incredibly supportive community here, and that when I have lived/worked in places where I can't tell anyone, I am am not as a happy. But that is not because I am gay, it is because it upsets me that people will outcast me for something that I can't control and isn't their business. |
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Regular![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I still haven't decided if I liked the movie or not yet, though I do think it's an excellent and powerful movie. It seems like most of the time, the only gay people on tv are either super flamey, funny queens or completely surrounded by their big gay group and basically isolated from the whole rest of the world. That or you have the "must have" token gay character. And it seems that everyone in the country feels the need to weigh in with their opinion of the personal lives of gay people and what rights they have, with one side presenting gays as this horrible creeping evilness that's spreading over the country and going to cause the downfall of morals. The movie shows gays as regular people. It shows the great amount of effort that some gay people go through to fit in and hide who they are. It shows the danger and isolation that can come with being gay. Rather than getting the message "it's better to stay in the closet" we should feel outraged that this actually occurs in our country, that there are places it's not safe to be gay. Not just that people don't approve but that it's actually physically dangerous for a gay person to go there. Being gay does not equal being depressed. but there are a lot of difficulties that come with being gay and your environment can make a huge difference. Imagine having to restrain from talking in too much detail about your significant other because you're unsure of the reaction you might get from your collegues (sure, you can pick your friends but not always who your work with)...or being told by your parents that they no longer want you to come home from college...or having to be careful where you show affection or how you behave because it could get you killed. Without a group of friends, it can be very difficult to deal with. Sadly, it's often the people closest to us that hurt us the most, that walk away when we need them the most. I am speaking from experience. And maybe once people start to realize how painful it can be, they'll begin to believe it's not an choice and that what people do in their bedroom isn't anyone else's business. |
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