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2006-03-03 7:24 AM

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Subject: March Team Meeting - Rule Finalization

First and foremost, the purpose of this challenge is to motivate each member to reaching for an obtainable but difficult to reach goal. As such, we are here to support our teammates and talk trash with our oppsing teams.

Some rules may need to be ironed out, so I throw the rules out for discussion and, ultimately, agreement. 

Previously stated rules:

RULES:

1) To even out the playing field, since it is winter on much of the North American continent, both indoor and outdoor miles will count equally.

2) Any type of bicycle/trainer/etc. may be used to tabulate miles.

3) Teams may be formed starting right around ... now!

Playing off that small tournament that Ole Miss has muddled into once (yes, once), thinking that we could team up by Athlete Conferences -- SEC, ACC, Big-10, etc.  If your school does not have a big conference, you can align with the conference of your choice.

4) To the winners will go everlasting virtual glory ... and the ability to chose the losing teams' avatar for the month of April, beginning - appropriately so - on April Fool's Day.

5) Result to be sent to Team Captain by each Sunday night. Team Captains to post results weekly on to-be-created March Madness Weekly Results thread on Mondays. Edit: All submissions to coaches should be based upon what is logged in your Training Blog.

6) Winners are determined by the percentage of team participants that reached their goal.  Should there be a tie, then by gross team mileage completed ... including the miles compiled over the 100% goal threshold. (Added incentive to keep spinning if you reach your goal early.) Edit: see revision below.

6) Smack talking is, of course, encouraged.

As pointed out in the other thread, Rule #6 may not necessarily be the best course ... it has been proposed that nothing more can be gained beyond reaching 100% of stated goal, and would  agree with the logic behind that.  There needs to be an incentive to bite off a little more than you are comfortably chewing ... (for example, I have already upped my goal by ~40% to 275, which will be the most miles I have ever ridden in a given month.)

There does, however, need to be a way to break a tie.  Volume is still probably the best solution and, in the interest of being able to weigh minutes vs. miles, I recommend that we convert time into miles by utilizing a standard common mph pace. 

Some team members may be faster than others, some slower.  I throw out 16 mph as a middle of the road pace for consideration.  If you think there is a better pace, then please throw it out there and let's discuss.

Another thing to take into consideration is injury.  Unless there is a car involved, cycling is less impact and therefore injury prone than running. That being said, I would hate to have someone try to muddle through miles so as to not let their team down ... how best to handle?

Lastly, final rosters with team members and their associated goals should be posted to this thread on Sunday. Results should be posted to a thread to be created Monday morning entitled something along the lines of "March Madness Weekly Results".

I have taxed my feeble Ole Miss mind trying to think this thing through ... so I throw this out to discussion to the more learned folks ( ): thoughts, comments, suggestions?

Let's discuss and finalize them by end of today, tomorrow morning at the latest so that we can have this "push pinned" to the top of the forum.

Thanks!!!



2006-03-03 7:45 AM
in reply to: #359697

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Subject: RE: March Team Meeting - Rule Finalization

As pointed out in the other thread, Rule #6 may not necessarily be the best course ... it has been proposed that nothing more can be gained beyond reaching 100% of stated goal, and would  agree with the logic behind that.  There needs to be an incentive to bite off a little more than you are comfortably chewing ... (for example, I have already upped my goal by ~40% to 275, which will be the most miles I have ever ridden in a given month.)

There does, however, need to be a way to break a tie.  Volume is still probably the best solution and, in the interest of being able to weigh minutes vs. miles, I recommend that we convert time into miles by utilizing a standard common mph pace. 

I am not sure I like this, some teams will have more members than others.  Also, a team that has most of its members preparing for a HIM will obviously have more volume than a team that has most of its members training for a sprint. 

2006-03-03 7:47 AM
in reply to: #359697

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Subject: RE: March Team Meeting - Rule Finalization
Well, you'll have to leave it to the ACC geniuses to figure out all the fine points ...... ;-P

I'd say we need to NOT convert time to miles. We had talked about this in the running challenge. It really favors the slower riders/runners and severely penalizes the fasties. I typically average over 19 on my LSR days, and if I was a minute person I would get nailed for over 3 miles on each hour ridden, and that's assuming I'm having a "slow" day. My Weds. rides get well above 21 mph .......

So I think minutes are minutes and miles are miles.

Keep it simple. If all the teams hit their goal 100%, then everyone wins (like the Jan. swim challenge). Since this IS for health benefit, we don't need to demoralize a team because they hit their goal 100% but didn't do anything "extra" to win a tie break.

But I'm just a little turtle (with a big bite), so take what I say with a grain of salt.



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2006-03-03 8:47 AM
in reply to: #359697

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Subject: RE: March Team Meeting - Rule Finalization

Craig/Rick:

I hear what both of you are saying as to the problem, but do not clearly see a ready solution.  Any ideas on how to address them?

For those with more team members, while they have the opportunity to rack up volume after 100% - they have a greater risk of not each team member reaching 100%.  The greater the volume commitment, the greater the chances are to fail ... in that the greater the volume commitment, the more time it takes. Time is finite - free time to train for most is a scarce commodity and training time often takes a backseat to family and job commitments.

For the conversion into a common denominator, there has to be some sort of commonality in order to determine the losing team who has to change their avatar.

I can see a scenario where each team has 100% goal obtainment and one team has X miles, but only Y minutes vs. another team who only has Y miles but has X minutes ... how do you determine the outcome?

Pssoble solution: I do not have a trainer, so I am uncertain about this ... but can you not gauge distance on a training from your cyclocomputer? If so, then you have the option of utilizing distance instead of time.

Logging time would then be for people using stationary bicycles w/out distance meters -- and how large is that population within the challenge?

Again, I have no strong feelings about the above and would like to open it up for suggestions ... with the end result that the rules are fair for all and simple enough for an Ole Miss grad to understand (factoring down to the lowest common denominator ).

2006-03-03 9:48 AM
in reply to: #359799

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Subject: RE: March Team Meeting - Rule Finalization
I say keep it simple - state your goals in EITHER time or miles and then scores are based on both percentage of goal met and percentage of teammates making the goal.  Just like the February run challenge.  Nothing over 100% should count though, otherwise you can just sandbag your goal then rack up miles anyway.  You can't get too technical on a challenge that is based on the honor system anyway!  If someone is too worried about winning the challenge instead of setting a high enough goal that they have to push themselves the spirit of these challenges is lost anyway.
2006-03-03 9:51 AM
in reply to: #359885

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Subject: RE: March Team Meeting - Rule Finalization
I just realized Daremo said basically the same thing as me so I concur with the Terrapin!


2006-03-03 9:59 AM
in reply to: #359697

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Subject: RE: March Team Meeting - Rule Finalization
I say let there be a tie, especically since the only realistic way a tie would happen is if the team meets their goal of 100%.

This is my first challenge. How has this been handled in previous challenges?
2006-03-03 10:31 AM
in reply to: #359898

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Subject: RE: March Team Meeting - Rule Finalization

camy - 2006-03-03 10:59 AM

I say let there be a tie, especically since the only realistic way a tie would happen is if the team meets their goal of 100%.

I agree, if a team meets 100% of their goals, they deserve to be crowned champions (or co-champions).

2006-03-03 11:05 AM
in reply to: #359939

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Subject: RE: March Team Meeting - Rule Finalization
cathrone - 2006-03-03 9:31 AM

camy - 2006-03-03 10:59 AM

I say let there be a tie, especically since the only realistic way a tie would happen is if the team meets their goal of 100%.

I agree, if a team meets 100% of their goals, they deserve to be crowned champions (or co-champions).




Ditto!!
2006-03-03 12:26 PM
in reply to: #359697

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Subject: RE: March Team Meeting - Rule Finalization
I agree 100% is 100%.  The challenge is less about who wins or loses and more about providing motivation to be active and achieve personal goals.
2006-03-03 1:51 PM
in reply to: #359697

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Subject: RE: March Team Meeting - Rule Finalization
So if everyone is winner and there are no losers, should we drop the change the losing team's avatars for the month of April?


2006-03-03 1:54 PM
in reply to: #360249

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Subject: RE: March Team Meeting - Rule Finalization
No ..... because usually not every team hits there goals. Look at the run challenge .... I think only those cooky Canadians actually hit 100%, everyone else was under .....

The Jan. swim challenge was a fluke, it had never happened before.
2006-03-03 2:02 PM
in reply to: #360256

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Subject: RE: March Team Meeting - Rule Finalization

Okay ... I'm good either way -- but want to be sure that we nail this down as a group before the challenge takes off in earnest.

What about the injury issue?  Any quick + easy suggestions on how to handle that ... or should it be left to karma, stretching and clean living?

Daremo - 2006-03-03 2:54 PM No ..... because usually not every team hits there goals. Look at the run challenge .... I think only those cooky Canadians actually hit 100%, everyone else was under ..... The Jan. swim challenge was a fluke, it had never happened before.

2006-03-03 2:03 PM
in reply to: #360256

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Subject: RE: March Team Meeting - Rule Finalization

Daremo - 2006-03-03 11:54 AM No ..... because usually not every team hits there goals. Look at the run challenge .... I think only those cooky Canadians actually hit 100%, everyone else was under ..... The Jan. swim challenge was a fluke, it had never happened before.

We maybe cooky, but we delivered a solid A** kicking to our southern neighbours, and we'll do it again   Can we begin the smack talk?

2006-03-03 2:05 PM
in reply to: #360274

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Subject: RE: March Team Meeting - Rule Finalization
huengsolo - 2006-03-03 3:02 PM
.... it be left to karma, stretching and clean living ........
2006-03-03 2:12 PM
in reply to: #360278

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Subject: RE: March Team Meeting - Rule Finalization

Daremo - 2006-03-03 12:05 PM
huengsolo - 2006-03-03 3:02 PM .... it be left to karma, stretching and clean living ........

Works for me, unless someone gets injured to the point that they are out for the month.  If they have to reduce volume their progess should stay in.  If they are done for the month before say the 25th then their stats come off the final tally 



2006-03-03 8:05 PM
in reply to: #360287

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Subject: RE: March Team Meeting - Rule Finalization

Global - 2006-03-03 3:12 PM

Daremo - 2006-03-03 12:05 PM
huengsolo - 2006-03-03 3:02 PM .... it be left to karma, stretching and clean living ........

Works for me, unless someone gets injured to the point that they are out for the month.  If they have to reduce volume their progess should stay in.  If they are done for the month before say the 25th then their stats come off the final tally 

Just making sure I am picking up what you are putting down ...

Are you saying that if they are injured, then it is okay to reduce the volume of their goal ...

... or ...

Are you saying that if they are injured, then it is karms, bad stretching and too much fried food -- and too bad, so sad b/c their volume goal stays the same?

Again, either way ...

2006-03-03 8:10 PM
in reply to: #359697

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Subject: RE: March Team Meeting - Rule Finalization
If someone gets hurt and needs to revise their goal at that point, then I certainly don't have a problem with that. If someone is too injured/sick to complete their goal and in that particular case, they are not going to really be able to do more for the month, then I wouldn't have a problem with them being "removed" from the challenge. I am making the assumption, trusting in the honesty of my fellow members, that no one would use that excuse unless they really needed to.
2006-03-04 10:35 AM
in reply to: #360572

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Subject: RE: March Team Meeting - Rule Finalization

I say keep it simple.  If someone suffers a major injury or illness, they can revise their goal or asked to be removed from the challenge; otherwise goals are firm.  We can leave it up to the honor system for determining what is and is not a major injury or illness. 

 --Craig

2006-03-04 11:30 AM
in reply to: #359697

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Subject: RE: March Team Meeting - Rule Finalization

I like the same rules as the run challenge. Nothing over 100% counts, and base it on percentage of goal attained and the team average.

in that situation the size of the goal doesn't matter and neither does the size of the team.

 I also have No issue with being able to drop a member that suffers a severe injury.

2006-03-04 12:36 PM
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Subject: RE: March Team Meeting - Rule Finalization

Happy Saturday folks! 

Just got back from a 10k (got a PB!!!) and quickly checking-in ... good comments all. Will make the changes re: goal quantification and injury goal reduction based on comments + post team rosters w/goals later tonight.  (It is too beautiful in GA today to be in front of a computer!)

Now go out there and RIDE SOME!!!



2006-03-05 6:50 AM
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Subject: RE: March Team Meeting - Rule Finalization
huengsolo - 2006-03-03 8:24 AM

Lastly, final rosters with team members and their associated goals should be posted to this thread on Sunday. Results should be posted to a thread to be created Monday morning entitled something along the lines of "March Madness Weekly Results".

This is the Big 10 Team.

sparco 150 miles
wsm9363 5.5 hours
tnickerson 100 miles
Tri Iowa 7.0 hours
jcjsc00 12.5 hours
cathrone 10.0 hours
Bettylou 9.0 hours
autumn 

250 miles

Denise2003 8.0 hours
NoraKraemer 5.0 hours
vortmax 9.0 hours 
StartingToTri 8.0 hours 
lisazapato 5.0 hours
fishnrich 9.0 hours
kimta 8.0 hours
trigirlkris 200 miles
StarGazer 9.0 hours
 

 

2006-03-05 8:05 AM
in reply to: #359697

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Subject: RE: March Team Meeting - Rule Finalization
Big East team:

isis54 4 hrs
D.Z. 5 hrs
EmilyG 5 hrs
jpcan 5.5 hrs
tri again 7 hrs
Celeb ithil 8 hrs
pjostack 8.5 hrs
TriMom217 9 hrs
PollyC 10 hrs
kleinrider 11 hrs
oceanannie 11.67 hrs
geoffs 12 hrs
KathyG 12 hrs
lobstergirl 12 hrs
Jlee 15 hrs
stone 16 hrs
TypeA Girl Pilot 18 hrs
max 31 hrs

MAtriMom 100 miles
danielle860 140 miles
mperdue 200 miles
xterratri 250 miles
exor 260 miles
CptnJackSparrow 275 miles
camy 300 miles
2006-03-05 6:46 PM
in reply to: #359697

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Subject: RE: March Team Meeting - Rule Finalization

Here's the Big 12 team (sent via PM):

Originally written by speedball (2006-03-04  9:44 PM)

OK Here are the goals for the Big 12 Team

Shawn Barr - 7 hours

Lara - 8 hours

Parkerr815 - 5 hours

ott13979 -  400 minutes

Claire Allen - 8 hours

daustino - 12 hours

kpallen - 12 hours

tkelsey - 12 hours

pakman - 8 hours

Ed Downey - 18 hours

speedball - 18 hours

apw0397 - 12 hours

Thanks!

 

2006-03-05 6:49 PM
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Subject: RE: March Team Meeting - Rule Finalization

Here's the ACC team, roster + goals sent via PM:

Originally written by Daremo (2006-03-03  5:02 PM)

Brian, here's my team.  Should be the final group/numbers:

AlBearAngel - 160 miles
chris hughes - 100 miles
Daremo - 250 miles
jenneunc - 140 miles
karris - 100 miles
Wakeman - 350 miles

ekl26 - 25 hours
tpetersen02 - 17 hours

 

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