race hydration

from what I remember of last season the MCS race series (aka 'Recharge with Milk' Series) provides Hammer H.E.E.D. on the course.

I'm lucky I guess that I have an iron gut.... I usually train with whatever is the fluid of choice for my HIM race and then drink whatever is on the course for my shorter races. 

Gatorade Endurance for me this year - but I want to try the Melon HEED that has been calling me from my LBS.

ETA: I did carry my own fluids one year because I was using Accelerade and apparently I'm one of the few who actually like it - what a pain.  I won't do that again. 

Dave, H.E.E.D is available at many retailers in Ontario. You should be able to train and get your system used to it.

On another note if I were in your shoes, and I have been with many Ironman races, why not take your own nutrition on the race course. Simply train and use the nutrition product you like, buy a Fuel Belt and bring that product to the race. If you don't want to wear a Fuel Belt and carry fluids, the other option is to train with and use gels for your nutrition on race day. For shorter races, Olympic and less, you can consider gels which you can carry and simply use the water at the aid stations to help the gels work effectively. I would never deny myself a race course because of nutrition. If you can't buy it and train with it then train with what works for you and bring it to the race.

Just a thought.

I agree with John.  It's a lot of organization to prep it all but if your system is really sensitive it might be the way to go. That way you can use what your system likes and not worry about what's available.  For my first HIM I had a bottle that was concentrated - I marked it into thirds - one third plus a bottle of water gave me the right fluid mix (which I mixed right on the bike into my aerobottle - so I didn't have to carry ALL the fluids on the bike - just a concentrated bottle plus pick up water at the stations on the bike.  I had a hand bottle for the run - and then used water.

I think I used a triple strength bottle of Infinit on the bike the same Steelhead where you were carrying your own nutrition Stef, I would just rather live off the course if possible. Also the logistics of a slow guy like me surviving off of a fuel belt for an IM run, even if I stash another at special needs, is painful to consider. When I pick my "A" race my goal for "B" and "C" races is to prepare for the "A" race. That includes racing on the nutrition used at the "A" so that I can see how I react to it under race conditions. Why experiment with HEED, Cerosport, or some other product that nobody else is using?

I appreciate that you would receive more sponsorship money by using a different hydration product, but unless you honestly think the product is superior I would rather pay a little more in race fees and have you use a more commonly used product.

Dave, We actually look at the products that are interested in sponsoring and look for those that will give quality nutrition on the course. Given that H.E.E.D. is one of those quality products and is easily obtained at retailers we feel it is a good choice. It is also part of the extensive line-up of Hammer Nutrition products, including Hammer Gel, which we also use for some of the longer races (Olympic and Half Iron). As to H.E.E.D., our customers can train with it and we know that they are getting good nutrition options on race day. Part of providing a quality race series is being true to your core values and the best interests of your customers. 

I don't know if you could find a product that everyone could agree on as being "superior".  They all are developed for a similar purpose but are different formulas.  It's like having just one shoe for all runners - it wouldn't work.  I know that my training partner uses Infinit and I use Accelerade.  We both have different needs so the same product wouldn't work for us.  (He's a HEAVY sweater whereas I don't use a lot of fluids but I can process way more "food" during training.) 

I personally wouldn't want to pay more for races in order to have a specific product. 

I do understand where you're coming from and I'm sure it's frustrating that there is no consistency between races.  *frown*  I'm not sure there's an answer that will work for everyone.

I did IMFL in 2010 in just shy of 14 hours, so I am by no means fast.  I, like you, have a bit of a sensative stomache and would much prefer if all races just used plain old gatorade.  Instead I devised my own nutrition plan and carried everything I needed over the 222 km of the bike and run courses - concentrated eload and shot blocks on the bike and shotblocks and electrolyte tabs on the run.  Worked well for me and worked last year at Welland as well (at least until km 16 of the run, but those last 5 km are another story altogether).  Eload can easily concentrate to 4 times it's regular strength, so over a half marathon, 1 bottle plus water at the aid stations would work just fine.

I did IMFL in 2008 and 2011 and managed to get fairly comfortable with the products that they were using by training and racing with them for months. I have not tried shotblocks. I am so sick of gels by the time that I get well into the run that I end up surviving on Coke or chicken broth with mixed results.

I had a look at the Hammer website and looked at the ingredients for HEED. I got as far as xylitol and stevia before I stopped reading. Why on earth would they put xylitol and stevia in a sports drink? Xylitol and other sugar alcohol sweeteners are well known to cause gastrointestinal side effects such as diarrhea, bloating, and gas, which is already an issue for me. Stevia was labelled by the FDA and the EU as an unsafe food additive for years, and is just starting to become used. Industry has been lobbying hard for it's use in things like zero calorie soft drinks, which makes some sense for a zero calorie beverage, but why mess with zero calorie sweeteners in sports drinks where consuming calories is the main point? I assume that HEED is using maltodextrin as a source of calories, but it seems very odd to use questionable sweetners like xylitol and stevia instead of just putting some sugar in. Some of the research on stevia was done here, but my understanding is that it is not grown or processed in North America and just shipped in from China as a powder.

Considering how much sports drink I consume over a summer of training there is no chance of my messing around with HEED.

I had a look at the Health Canada website and the most recent information about stevia still lists it as not approved for use in foods sold in Canada:

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/fn-an/securit/addit/sweeten-edulcor/stevia-faq-eng.php

Dave I am sure you have read the responses to your comments on the other forum at Slowtwitch. I was doing some research and came across what I believe is another post by you. I will copy and paste just two of the comments from there. I think others here might find the feedback interesting and enlightening.

Comment #1) According to the hammernutrition web site: 

"Sports drinks have been around a long time and for many athletes they're more convenient than energy gels. Unfortunately, most sport drinks are not much more than artificially colored sugar water that does little to aid your performance and even less for your health. That is why we developed HEED as a healthy alternative to keep you hydrated. HEED's subtle tasting, all-complex carbohydrate formula goes down easily and supplies you with consistent, long-lasting energy and the electrolytes you need to keep pushing the pace. Because we add no citric acid to the formula, it will not burn your throat or stomach no matter how long you drink it. HEED's sweeteners - stevia and xylitol - are actually good for you, xylitol being especially beneficial for helping promote oral health. The full-spectrum, all chelated mineral, electrolyte profile helps satisfy your body's mineral requirements. L-Carnosine and Chromium Polynicotinate help to buffer lactic acid and support stable blood glucose levels. If you prefer sports drinks over energy gels or like to use the two together, try HEED and find out what a sports drink done right can do for your athletic performance." 

Comment #2) 

Hammer is avoiding sugar for a variety of reasons. To summarize: 
- sugar raises osmolality to a higher degree than maltodextrin meaning it cannot be mixed in as high concentrations, therefore making it a less efficient fuel than maltodextrin 
- maltodextrin is processed with less insulin fluctuation (the rise, yes, the precipitous drop, no) than sugar, meaning it will provide a more consistent, less spikey energy source 

So basically with HEED you can get more calories in for the same volume of liquid without GI issues. (Mixing a higher concentration of Gatorade doesn't count - it will lead to GI issues.) It's not so much that sugar is bad, but that maltodextrin is better. I honestly wonder if some people think that because maltodextrin is a multi-sylabic, chemical sounding name it must be harder to process than good old simple sounding sugar (sucrose, glucose, etc). Regardless of why they think it, "Maltodextrin is easily digestible, being absorbed as rapidly as glucose." (Wikipedia) 

Knowledge is power. Even if you never use Hammer's products, I encourage you to poke around the Knowledge portion of their website. It is extensive and comprehensive. I don't think many companies have done as much R&D. 

Here is the entire thread: http://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/Slowtwitch_Forums_C1/Triathlon_Forum_F1/sweeteners_in_HEED_P3804111/

One should immediately distrust anything on Hammer's site simply because the information is there in an effort to sell you their product.

That doesn't mean that the information is wrong, but it is there strictly for marketing purposes.  In my brief perusal of the site, little of it is actually backed up by properly cited scientific references.  A picture is painted, but is it the whole picture?

I do think it is somewhat harsh to suggest that one should "distrust anything" on the Hammer Nutrition site. In fact if you take a good look around you will see there is a lot of research information. Take a look around again and you will see information such as this: http://www.hammernutrition.com/knowledge/endurance-library/

Do you distrust anything on any site for the same reason? 

Dave, I will start by giving you a simple and obvious response, have you tried contacting Hammer Nutrition?

I would suggest that the best place to get the answer would be directly from Hammer. The notion that a forum will get you a 100% accurate answer is somewhat foreign to me. Sure, you will get a lot of opinions and different answers however, if I were looking for the reason someone is doing something, I would simply go to the source and ask them.

I have personally spent a great deal of time talking with their nutrition expert and know how seriously they take the content and quality of all of their products. It is one of the reasons I am happy they sponsor our series. Even with those conversations I am not an expert nor am I involved n the production of H.E.E.D. Given this, it is not my place to give a definitive answer as to why they use a certain ingredient(s).

Personally I think forums are fine if someone is looking for an opinion on a "high level" question such as training, equipment or past experiences in a race. In that regard I see the value in "putting it out there" to a group that has varying levels of knowledge and experience. I am always mystified as to why people who want a specific answer to a question look to a group or forum when the obvious source for the answer is the company responsible for the product or service.

I think that one of the issues with asking a question that can really only be answered, in this case, by the manufacturer is the question does not get answered and the thread goes a little sideways. This one is a pretty good example of that situation.

 I believe your original post was a question as to what nutrition was provided at races in Ontario and, later on, why. When you heard we had H.E.E.D. you felt that this could be a risk for you with your history of gastrointestinal issues. I, and others, gave you a suggested solution of carrying your own nutrition. Apparently that option is not one you would choose to explore and was followed with the inference that you would not attend a race unless they were giving you the nutrition product you were happy with. As a paying customer that is your choice. It also appears that some were trying to suggest that you might be denying yourself some good race experiences if you choose races (ours or others) based on the nutrition offered, versus the quality of the race and their customer service levels.

Unfortunately your subsequent post claimed that some of the ingredients were questionable and there was a comment that could be interpreted as your questioning the integrity behind the reasons we might work with a particular sponsor, in this case Hammer Nutrition. It appears that the “integrity issue” garnered a response from some athletes who attend our races. Thankfully they were very nice in their praise of the series (one of which was perhaps overzealous towards you and was removed from this thread). It also looks like most tried to give you suggestions and options.

There were also some, on another forum, who gave you answers to your question (cut and paste above) and here (http://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/Slowtwitch_Forums_C1/Triathlon_Forum_F1/sweeteners_in_HEED_P3804111), but it appears those response were inadequate or you felt they did not provide you with a satisfactory answer.

Unfortunately here we are and you still do not have an answer to your latest question.

So I will give you my suggestion again. Why not contact Hammer Nutrition and ask them? Once you get the answer to your specific question I hope you share it.

Beyond that, even though H.E.E.D. might not be your first choice, I hope you try one of our races and, if you do, find it to be a pleasant race experience. If you do race with us please make sure you introduce yourself and say hello to me on race day.

John, As you suggested I contacted Hammer about their use of stevia in HEED and received this response:

Dave,

I actually have a call scheduled with Hammer today and will be getting you more information. I will post what I can here. 

As I said before, if you do race with us, please make sure you introduce yourself and say hello to me on race day.

John,

The simple answer is yes.  I try (and sometime fail) to be an intelligent consumer.  As such, I realize that every single piece of information presented to us by a company is an attempt to sell us their products.  There is no difference in this between a car company, computer manufacturer or a sports supplement company.  A company cannot lie (legally), but they do not have to provide the consumer the whole story.

Put simply, Hammer is in the business of selling us products, not information.  They provide information in an effort to "educate" us that their product is superior to other products on the market.  Every single piece of information on their website is carefully chosen to promote their point of view.

Now about this link: http://www.hammernutrition.com/knowledge/endurance-library/, let's take an article from this "library" and look at it.  The one that I chose (at random) is http://www.hammernutrition.com/knowledge/glutamine-benefits.284.html?sect=endurance-library-section.

The quality of this "article" is suspect at best, when you actually go looking at the listed references.  Let's start with the third paragraph, starting with "Falls in the plasma glutamine level ...".  Now let's look at the abstract for reference [1]: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9802174.  After the fourth sentence of the abstract, the "article" and the abstract are the same.  The next paragraph, from the second sentence on until the mark for reference [2] it is an almost exact copy of the abstract for the reference (found here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10190775).  The next paragraph is no better.  It is again almost a straight copy of the abstract for reference [4] (which can be found here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11050539).

So the "article" by the former R&D director of Hammer was nothing more than a copy and paste of abstracts of journal articles.  Makes me wonder if he actually read any of them.

And you wonder why I distrust the marketing on websites?

For the record, I have only ever tried Hammer Perpetuem.  When my current container runs out I will not be buying more as I've since learned it will just be cheaper to buy maltodextrin bulk and make my own mix.

Regards,
Erik

John,

When you talk to Hammer, can you please have them confirm what they are saying about Stevia as it is contradicted by the Health Canada FAQ of Stevia.  Hammer told Dave "any food product", but the FAQ specific states "108 natural health products" which is not the same thing.

EDIT:  I have also just asked Health Canada the same question.