Speaking of being sentenced to death... it's not so bad.

I've had the experience in my life to send many people to prison, and talk to even more about their experiences in prison.  

Anyone who writes a letter saying how much they enjoy it has an agenda.

NOBODY likes being in a cage.

ETA:  To be sure, not fearing it and enjoying it are two different things....there are certainly those who don't fear it (those are the scary ones)....but they will take freedom over prison every time.

If you tell your kid that they are grounded and you are taking away their cell phone, and your kid says "fine, I don't care", does that make it so? Of course not. They are P.O.'d that they are caught and in trouble, and the only recourse they have is to "spit in your soup" and tell you that your punishment of them is not really that bad.

That is exactly what the inmate is doing. If having no purpose to your days is the same as a "life of leisure", then you clearly have a very different idea of leisure than I do. Next month, I am going on vacation to dive off the coast of North Carolina. I am taking some time off in August to do fun things with my daughter before she goes back to college. On a daily basis I take my dogs for long walks. I can take my boat out for a ride, my bike, my motorcycle, etc. I drove to NY to spend a weekend with my oldest daughter last month, and in a couple of weeks I am going to Philly with her for another weekend. I regularly do things with my wife. All of these things I would give up if I was in jail, living my "life of leisure". And at the end of the day, I feel that what I have done with my time has purpose and meaning.

The only "advantage" of being in jail, at least in the US, is free healthcare. But that's another story. 

Having worked in corrections and known many people who have worked in corrections I disagree.  Many of them are so institutionalized that prison is the place they are most comfortable.  They know the system, they know the game and they are not afraid.  "Freedom" means living in a world where you are an outcast, in a system that doesn't want you around and does not guarantee things like 3 meals a day and a place to sleep.  

Nope....not being afraid, being "instututionalized", or even comfortable,  is not the same as enjoying it.  I've never heard a single former inmate say, "man, I can't wait to go back there!!!" I've heard many say, "I'm not worried about going back there."  Big difference.  And those who feel that way should have to stay....because prison is not a deterrent to a life of crime.  But it sure as hell isn't because it's enjoyable to them.

They do not enjoy being on the outs either, other than how you would enjoy a trip to Disney World.  That is my point.  They would not choose freedom over an institution as you posited.

"They would not choose freedom over an institution as you posited."

Yes, they would, every single time. Some may not be able to, but all would choose freedom.

Not all of the ones I have talked to, so not every single time!  Would most, certainly but not all.

There may be something to this. "Scared Straight" programs turn out to actually INCREASE the likelihood of a kid ending up in jail. It seems that when you take a kid who is already doing poorly in the "real world", and show him a setting where everyone there is just like him, instead of thinking "I'd better turn myself around", they think "Hey, these guys are just like me - maybe this is where I will fit in".

Having said that, I think most of them would still prefer to be able to do whatever they want whenever they want. And of course, my life as it is now is much more comfortable to me than their lives in jail would be. Which is why I continue to make the good choices that keep me here and not there...

This is true of everybody but is not the case in the real world for anybody.  None of us get to do whatever we want whenever we want.

The difference is we recognize this. Most people who are incarcerated have not really mastered this lesson, and are stuck in the mindset of the oppositional 12 year old who says "when I grow up, I'll do what I want to do, and no one can tell me what to do anymore!". 

I do not get to literally do everything I want when I want. But I can delayed gratification and planning as well as setting my priorities to do the things that I decide are important to me to do.

Agreed.  That makes the choice not one between prison or doing what I want when I want because even most criminals know that is not the case.  The choice is between living within the strictures of society in the outside world or living within the strictures of prison society.  To many institutionalized individuals the latter is their preferred choice.

Ya and that comes from the fear of the known is better than the fear of the unknown. So many people continue to go back to the same bad choices not because it is a good idea, but at least they know what they are going to get out of it.

Asking a life time criminal to change, to become somebody they are not, to try a new way of life... they can't comprehend that. To much fear of the unknown. So what are they left to do... do the same thing they have always done, run amok until they are caught.

I'm sorry, but looking into their life with your glasses does not give you a true view of their world. Just because they are there, does not mean they like it, or would choose that over a better life if they actual believed they could have one.

That is exactly right...NOBODY would choose prison over freedom.....NOBODY.  And the person who wrote the letter describing his "life of leisure" in prison is yanking chains...he hates every minute of it.

One big difference is that the habitual individuals we're talking about don't (stereotypically) have diving vacations, a good job where they can take some time off, multiple toys/vehicles to play with, or even a "good" life that they would have to give up.  To be even more stereotypical, they probably would be "giving up" a life of continued crime, drugs, abuse, violence, and wanting.  At the end of their day, I imagine they don't feel any kind of purpose or meaning for what they have done with their time.  In the analogy of the grounded kid - he doesn't care because his punishment is trivial; he knows he'll get that cell phone back, his grounding will come to an end, and he will return to his normal "true" life of leisure.  These individuals are less inclined to want to return to their normal lives.  So our definition of "life of leisure" and theirs are totally different.

I'm not defending them or making excuses for them.  I just think being on death row, without the real threat of being put to death, is much less of a deterrent to them.  For them, there are definite advantages to being in jail.

"The Shawshank Redemption" taught me otherwise...

ETA: Dang it, did not see Drew's post above saying basically the same thing...

I have heard men say that prison was easier than life outside of prison....but I have never heard a man say he'd rather be back in prison. (unless it's in a movie) 

I have not read all the replies, but I think this guy needs to go to Arizona to visit Sheriff Joe.  I think this is one of the main problems with our justice system.  These people get to watch tv, play video games, work out, and dont have to work or pay bills (instead I pay them for them).  I know a lot of people dont agree with me, but I see no reason why prisioners should not be earning their own keep, whether it be working in some sort of factory, or as farm labor.  Sheriff Joe makes them wear pink, ride exercise bikes to power their own tv, and they work on chain-gangs to earn their keep.  These people choose to commit crimes, so they choose to live like dogs.  Prison should be a place that they DONT want to go to, so life there should be miserable. 

Last week, my truck got broken into and they stole a few things.  The cop that came by to fill out the reports is disguhsted with the system.  (in this case the Juvenile system)  Where I live is HOT in the summer, so these kids are OK with committing crimes, going to Juvie for a week or so to live in nice air conditioning and hang out with their friends. 

Shawshank Redemption was a fictional dramatic movie with the message of never giving up hope.

Resigning one's self to a life of crap, does not mean one enjoys the life of crap. A 65 year old fictional man hanging himself because he has nothing left to live for on the outside, does not mean he enjoyed his time inside and had a life of purpose.

Fat people know they are not skinny. Poor people know they are not rich. Addicted people know they are slaves. Incarcerated people know they are not free. People will try to deny reality, and come up with all sorts of justifications, and rationalizations to some how come to an acceptance of what they have is OK... but at the end of the day, fantasy will never reconcile with reality. That is a true torture if you have never lived it. And it is not something people enjoy regardless what they say.

I was just about to bring up Sheriff Joe.

I'm no penal system expert, but have you ever seen a history of prisons... it's all been tried before. Rehabilitation, hart time, treated like dogs, easy time... no system has ever been found to be better at solving the problem.... one thing for sure though that has been proven... when you treat people like dogs they act like dogs.

There is no way to run a prison with zero personal interaction. So then the problem comes down to staff safety. When you treat people like less than human, then you will never have safety for the staff,and then you will never have a prison to keep them in. There are some realities in life. Society has said that if you can't act right we will remove you from it. That is the price we pay. Our safety, staff safety, and a incarcerated man gets to watch cable. What is the big picture?

And if you are prepared for that riot I see no issue with that.  It's punishment.  It's not supposed to be fun.  It's supposed to suck.