Speaking of Food Stamps (Tony)

I certainly agree with your assessment, but I don't think it would be practical to block items based on UPC from a technology standpoint.  For example many stores, especially in poorer areas, have very old cash register type systems that wouldn't be capable of distinguishing between items.  It certainly could be done with technology, but I think the scammers would just find an older store that doesn't have the system to go buy their pron.

A good # of conv stores have POS systems.  It's simple to program in these POS systems to not take payment for these items via EBT.  Go to any Walmart and you'll see signs for "WIC approved".  These are items you can buy with WIC money (like foodstamps but for yound mothers and children).

Even if it's not "possible" to do this automatically

1) Sale tax authorities do audits on these stores.  When they do they look for illegal EBT credits and then fine the stores.

2) Just the passing of the law would cause a good # of store to ban the sale of these items on their own volition.  Sure you'll get some bad apples in the bunch but a good majority will not want to risk the fines/penalties.

Regardless, I too am surprised these items were not banned in the beginning.  You'd think they would have a list of "included" items as opposed to "excluded" ones.  If that's the case what rocket surgeon put tattoos on the list?

It used to be you could not buy a lot of things with food stamps.  Those rules have been repeatedly relaxed over the years.

Not to sound judgmental, but I am guessing that there lot of people that have not spent a lot of time in the ghetto.

We are not talking about your average 7-11.

(Although I am sure that you could.)

You can buy things that are not legal to buy with cash with an EBT card.

Y'all are talking alcohol and porn... try hookers and drugs.

The bottom line is that these poor neighborhoods have entire black-market, gray-market, and barter-based economies that are off of the books that most middle-class, suburbanites could never imagine.

You calculate what people have and make, and you calculate the value of guns, drugs, cash, etc. flowing... that money is coming from somewhere.

I can link you to the closest EBT accepting food market-check cashing-smoke shop to a high school I used to work at.

Elementary, Middle, and high-school aged kids walk this corner every school day and stop at this store.

(Click pic for Google Street View)

Do you think an establishment like this is worried about people buying a Playboy with an EBT card?

Consider the following-

Point 1 - only about 1/2 the depth of the store is visible from the inside, the rest is back-room.

Point 2 - Owner's son was killed in a robbery shooting. 100% of the crime-involved students that I worked with were adamant that it was neither a robbery, nor random. It was related to the "side-business" that no one wanted to discuss.

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/SLAYING+LEADS+DWINDLING+WERE+CLERKS+ARGUING+WITH+CUSTOMER+BEFORE...-a083400517

And yes, I changed jobs and moved!

So although I do believe that there should be reasonable limits and enforcement, the efforts will largely be election-year symbolism whenever there is a cash-value that can be accessed.

The only way to minimize that level of abuse is go back to just providing food and clothes, or face the true reality and face the horrible Return of Investment it would take to clean this system up... which is probably pennies compared to one good corporate tax fraud audit.

Just looked up Texas and it only allows for food...
 

If you get food benefits:

You can buy food, seeds and plants at stores approved by the United States Department of Agriculture (USDA). The seeds and plants are used to grow food for your household to eat.

 

You cannot use food benefits to buy:

          ?  Beer, wine, liquor, cigarettes or tobacco;

          ?  Any non-food items (For example, pet foods, soaps, paper

           products, and household supplies);

          ?  Vitamins and medicines;

          ?  Food that will be eaten in the store;

          ?  Hot foods.

 This is all done on the Lone Star Card.  The way it works is businesses must accept the card and if the business does accept it, then they must meet the requirements set by the state.  Which I image would be to have modern scanners that can distinguish between food and non-food products.

But, we also have another program to help "needy families" pay for "bills" which means they can get cash out of the Card and use it on anything.

Exactly.  It's not hard to police this program.  The Mass governor's arguments are pretty weak.

I saw this same issue yesterday and was having difficulty understanding it as chitty chitty bang bang pointed out above, here in The State you can't just willy nilly buy whatever you want with the card.  I can remember 15 + years ago when I worked checking out groceries that after I rang up the groceries, the customer would use their lone star card for the balance and it would only apply to the groceries that were eligible and then they'd have to pay for the rest with another form of payment.  We didn't have to track anything, the check out system knew it at the time of the transaction.  There was also no fooling or gaming the system.  So I don't understand how they could NOT ban the non-food items.

I think the second one Chi Chi Rodriguez is talking about is the welfare check (gubment cheez as they call it).

I agree, but I also go back to my original point of... how much would it cost to tighten up the system, and how many people using the EBT to buy Four Lokos would you need to bust to make it more cost-effective than going after one guy who is defrauding private and public funds like this?

http://articles.latimes.com/1995-03-22/local/me-45620_1_two-employment-agencies

http://articles.latimes.com/1997-01-25/local/me-22078_1_james-campbell

Who, btw, now works as a local special education advocate.

Who buys porn anymore?

I live in Mass and with in 5 miles from where I am working now, three convenience stores have olde timey cash registers.  In my town, the convenience store and the package store both have the same set up.  Same with the next town over.  And then there's the 'hill' towns.  

I live in one of the poorest and least populated counties in the state and many are Mom and Pop stores that service populations of a few thousand dont have modern scanners.  The average cost of a POS is $3,000 (well thats how much ours cost) and they dont make enough money to justify the expense, even if it would be more convenient for them to order and track inventory.  

So its not as easy as you think - Unless you want the gubment to require all stores have a scanner.

Topsoil.  It's a dirty business that's for sure.

It's the governments money (actually OUR money).  When the gov't is the one giving it away I think they have every right to dictate how businesses can or cannot utilize the program.

EBT nowadays is a credit/debit card.  If a store has an "old timey" register they cannot accept them anyway. 

If they want to do business with EBT, then yes.

Yes they can and they do - they have olde timey credit card machines thats arent connected to the register.  Even with my 'modern' POS system, we still have to run the card through a separate machine like this that isnt connected (ie we have to manually punch in the amount to charge)

You are still not supposed to sell the items on the banned list with this type of set up.  But there is no way to oversee or police what the stores are doing unless they have an inventory based POS system.  Which is why it was easier to just ban the stores that specialize in selling banned items - like mine, a 'packie'  (for you non mass ppl - a liquor store, which we never could accept anyway) 

Not that I expected everyone to read my lengthy post and all of links, but I think that 2 other people also mentioned that the end-around for scanners is wide-spread, free, and been around for quite awhile.