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2012-09-06 1:38 PM

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Subject: Hypothetically speaking...

Let's just say that an admitted alcoholic attended an AA meeting and then on the way home from that meeting they purchased a pint of vodka and drank it in the car while driving.  Within minutes of arriving home that individual could not stand without propping themselves up.

That individual, once sober, excuses the behavior by saying "I wasn't legally drunk while driving" and calling the behavior "foolish". (ie obviously in denial of the extent of their problem)

Is there anything an observer can do to try and prevent this from happening again?  Nothing the cops can do if reported after the fact, right? 

Note; "observer" meaning spouse who did not see the bottle but witnessed the aftermath and to whom the alcoholic admitted all the details of the purchase/consumption to once sober.

Edited by mighty mom 2012-09-06 1:40 PM


2012-09-06 1:41 PM
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Subject: RE: Hypothetically speaking...
mighty mom - 2012-09-06 1:38 PM

Let's just say that an admitted alcoholic attended an AA meeting and then on the way home from that meeting they purchased a pint of vodka and drank it in the car while driving.  Within minutes of arriving home that individual could not stand without propping themselves up.

That individual, once sober, excuses the behavior by saying "I wasn't legally drunk while driving" and calling the behavior "foolish". (ie obviously in denial of the extent of their problem)

Is there anything an observer can do to try and prevent this from happening again?  Nothing the cops can do if reported after the fact, right? 

Note; "observer" meaning spouse who did not see the bottle but witnessed the aftermath and to whom the alcoholic admitted all the details of the purchase/consumption to once sober.

 

I think most states have open container laws.  So, technically speaking, he wasn't driving while intoxicated, but he was breaking the law.

2012-09-06 1:47 PM
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Subject: RE: Hypothetically speaking...
Video tape the aftermath next time and show him.  Then say this is why you need help, and tell him to be thankful he didn't kill someone.
2012-09-06 1:49 PM
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Subject: RE: Hypothetically speaking...

 

I doubt the cops can do anything about it after the fact. Perhaps a citizens citation based on being a witness but then it would be up to the prosecutor as to whether or not to take the case to trial just based on a witness. Doubt it would go anywhere.

Would this be the first DUI? 

2012-09-06 1:50 PM
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Subject: RE: Hypothetically speaking...

SoberTriGuy - 2012-09-06 2:47 PM Video tape the aftermath next time and show him.  Then say this is why you need help, and tell him to be thankful he didn't kill someone.

Already done.  Additionally, the alcoholic has been through an outpatient program and an inpatient detox and still seems to have not hit "rock bottom" enough to change his behavior.



Edited by mighty mom 2012-09-06 1:52 PM
2012-09-06 1:51 PM
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Subject: RE: Hypothetically speaking...
Aarondb4 - 2012-09-06 2:49 PM

Would this be the first DUI? 

No but the last was over 5 years ago, probably closer to 10 yrs.



2012-09-06 1:58 PM
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Subject: RE: Hypothetically speaking...
mighty mom - 2012-09-06 1:50 PM

SoberTriGuy - 2012-09-06 2:47 PM Video tape the aftermath next time and show him.  Then say this is why you need help, and tell him to be thankful he didn't kill someone.

Already done.  Additionally, the alcoholic has been through an outpatient program and an inpatient detox and still seems to have not hit "rock bottom" enough to change his behavior.

Sorry to hear that.  i am an alcoholic, and I've heard this story over and over again.  just suggest that he keeps going to meetings and hopefully something will click..Suggest that he finds a sponsor at one of these meetings, maybe working with another alcoholic is the ticket.  It's working for me...

2012-09-06 2:08 PM
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Subject: RE: Hypothetically speaking...
SoberTriGuy - 2012-09-06 2:58 PM
mighty mom - 2012-09-06 1:50 PM

SoberTriGuy - 2012-09-06 2:47 PM Video tape the aftermath next time and show him.  Then say this is why you need help, and tell him to be thankful he didn't kill someone.

Already done.  Additionally, the alcoholic has been through an outpatient program and an inpatient detox and still seems to have not hit "rock bottom" enough to change his behavior.

Sorry to hear that.  i am an alcoholic, and I've heard this story over and over again.  just suggest that he keeps going to meetings and hopefully something will click..Suggest that he finds a sponsor at one of these meetings, maybe working with another alcoholic is the ticket.  It's working for me...

This is good advice.  And perhaps the observer could access Al-Anon.  There's not much hard in this world than to seemingly stand idly by and watch someone with an addiction. 

It would be really good if this person did not have a licence or car to drive while still exhibiting this behaviour but in my experience there is still a way they find to drive - which doesn't help anyone observing to worry less.

2012-09-06 2:18 PM
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Subject: RE: Hypothetically speaking...

 

The observer could always sell the offender's car for them, that would solve the problem.

Wouldn't have helped in this situation since the offender started drinking while driving, but an ignition lock device came to mind. Forces them to blow before the car will start and if they have any alcohol in them the car won't start.

2012-09-06 2:22 PM
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Subject: RE: Hypothetically speaking...

This may not be the best answer but... it boils down to COST vs REWARD.

My ex-girlfriend was an alcoholic and would pretty much self medicate with just about any drug if given the opportunity. She had two DUI's and lost both her car and license. I am not sure of the total cost of the legal fees she paid out but I do remember her asking me to help pay 3k to her attorney [I said no, BTW]. Over time, I started to "discover and learn" more about her level of addictions as well as the extent and depth of the excuses one person can use.

One day, I just wished her the best and told her to move out. I realized I was on the Titanic and no amount of MY effort was going to stop the water from overtaking the ship.

The cost of the relationship outweighed the reward. I chose to not make her problems mine.

I wish you the best.



Edited by bullyboy 2012-09-06 2:23 PM
2012-09-06 2:28 PM
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Subject: RE: Hypothetically speaking...
Thanks. He's moving out next week.


2012-09-06 2:41 PM
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Subject: RE: Hypothetically speaking...

mighty mom - 2012-09-06 1:28 PM Thanks. He's moving out next week.

Honestly, that is probably YOUR best move.

 

The short answer is easy... there is not one single thing you can do to keep a person from doing what they are set on doing. Bet me.

2012-09-06 2:52 PM
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Subject: RE: Hypothetically speaking...
powerman - 2012-09-06 1:41 PM

mighty mom - 2012-09-06 1:28 PM Thanks. He's moving out next week.

Honestly, that is probably YOUR best move.

 

The short answer is easy... there is not one single thing you can do to keep a person from doing what they are set on doing. Bet me.

Agree. One thing to destroy your own life, another to affect others with your destructive behavior. Hope things work out for the "observer". 

2012-09-07 8:27 AM
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Subject: RE: Hypothetically speaking...

I've been on jury duty in DUI cases and the short story is...

Unless it's a DUI checkpoint where the police are stopping every car, they need PROBABLE CAUSE to pull you over.  You can be hammered out of your mind, but unless you drive in some manner (even if it's as small as changing lanes without signaling) they CANNOT pull you over.  Open container laws work in the same way, the cops need a reason.  If they see the individual drink from the bottle, that would be reason.  But unless the person actually does something while driving which warrants the cop to pull them over...  bupkis.

What can an observer do in this case?  Call the police and tell them the situation.  That in of itself creates probable cause and the driver can be pulled over.  Or the police can follow the individual watching until they do something.  The case I was on had a cop sitting in a parking lot outside a bar watching cars leave.  The cop pulled the person over a mile down the road and busted her.  But the dashboard cam showed no probable cause to pull the driver over.  The case was dismissed as entraptment and the officer and police chief for the town were given a stern lecture by the judge.

Please tell me this isn't true and isn't your spouse.  I would be so sad and sorry for you if it were the case.  Getting busted and losing one's license is a preferable scenario to an accident in which the drunk driver or an innocent pedestrian/other driver is killed.

 

2012-09-07 9:04 AM
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Subject: RE: Hypothetically speaking...

I'm not a cop, but I respond to a lot of drunk people with them.  If the cop doesn't actually see the person driving the vehicle or finds him intoxicated during the investigation of an accident it's a hard sell to get them for DUI.  I'm not sure what the exact law is but that's how the cops generally operate in my area.  I've even been on single vehicle wrecks where the driver swore up and down he wasn't driving.  Claims of random people driving their car.  Loaning their car to total strangers.  Suddenly realized it was stolen, etc.  We'll skip over the cut to the forehead and head shaped bulge in the windshield Surprised  If the cop can "put him in the driver's seat" through investigation then they're toast.  After the fact is pretty hard to get.  Unfortunately, it's illegal to drive drunk, but apparently it's legal to have driven drunk.

What you can do is if you know he's driving drunk you can report it.  It's not an uncommon 911 call when someone reports someone all over the road.  If you know he's doing it and you know his route, or general area the cops can look for him.

We cannot make someone change this kind of behavior, only the individual can.  If a person chooses not to change there is little we can do.  We can try to convince, but it's up to them and not us.  I have to agree that this person going away is probably the best for those around him.

2012-09-07 9:18 AM
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Subject: RE: Hypothetically speaking...
Not that it probably matters at this point since he is moving out, but given your description it was more than a pint of vodka.


2012-09-07 9:52 AM
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Subject: RE: Hypothetically speaking...
mighty mom - 2012-09-06 2:38 PM

 

Is there anything an observer can do to try and prevent this from happening again?  

 

 

NO

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