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2012-10-09 6:30 PM

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Subject: Expecting perfection or just his best effort?

My son is in first grade and we told him at the start of the school year if he came home from school, did his homework and practiced piano he could play the Wii for 30 min in the evening.

This has been going fine. He brings home a backpack full of papers with 100%, and gets his homework done without complaint... until a couple of weeks ago. He is still doing his work and he is still getting A's but he has started missing a couple of questions per test instead of getting 100%. The mistakes seem like easy stuff (to me) and things he knows when we do his homework. I think he may just be rushing through the test or not checking his work. Teacher conferences are coming up and I will ask about this but for now I'm thinking of telling him no Wii if questions are missed.

Is this too strict? Am I expecting perfection? I have not said too much about it yet, just something like oops, looks like you missed a couple of questions. We better practice that some more. 

What do you think?



2012-10-09 6:44 PM
in reply to: #4447240

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Subject: RE: Expecting perfection or just his best effort?
trigal38 - 2012-10-09 4:30 PM

My son is in first grade and we told him at the start of the school year if he came home from school, did his homework and practiced piano he could play the Wii for 30 min in the evening.

This has been going fine. He brings home a backpack full of papers with 100%, and gets his homework done without complaint... until a couple of weeks ago. He is still doing his work and he is still getting A's but he has started missing a couple of questions per test instead of getting 100%. The mistakes seem like easy stuff (to me) and things he knows when we do his homework. I think he may just be rushing through the test or not checking his work. Teacher conferences are coming up and I will ask about this but for now I'm thinking of telling him no Wii if questions are missed.

Is this too strict? Am I expecting perfection? I have not said too much about it yet, just something like oops, looks like you missed a couple of questions. We better practice that some more. 

What do you think?

Tough call, on one hand your child is doing way better than most I would imagine.

I think rather than eliminating something he seems to enjoy so much, I would consider one of two things, a. eliminating a period of time, a minute or few for each questions missed, or b. additional minute or few for perfection.

Good luck and best to you for being so involved with your lil one!!

2012-10-09 7:00 PM
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Subject: RE: Expecting perfection or just his best effort?

Be very careful expecting "perfection" and especially withholding something over it.  You wouldn't want him skipping AP Calculus in a few years because the perceived down-side risk of imperfection is too great.  Kids (and adults) need an environment where prudent risks and the potential for failure are common. 

He isn't too young to learn the difference between what he is capable of doing and what he actually does, but it has to be presented in terms that a 6-year old understands.  We tried to instill in our boys that the teacher could only assign grades based on what work they did, not what they didn't do even if they "knew" how to do it.  It is also a good time to reinforce the ideal of being conscientious about your work. 

Ask him how he feels about the tests, and whether he is aware of anyone else in the class who does as well on them as he does.  Kids at that age (really any age) can be pretty cruel dealing with outliers and that includes the kid who always gets a 100 on the test.  Missing a question or two might remove the target from his back.  As a HS senior, I was about mortified when the calculus instructor announced to the whole class that he didn't even grade the last test for 3 of us because he drops the lowest test and we had A-averages already without dropping a "bad" test. 

One thing you might do is insist that any incorrect answers be corrected before Wii time. 

It's tough being a good parent! 

 

 

2012-10-09 7:18 PM
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Subject: RE: Expecting perfection or just his best effort?
I'm with McFuzz on this one - expecting perfection can lead to a whole host of issues - expecting best effort OR at least let's review what you got wrong before Wii time is more likely to produce the results you want. Just wait until he's old enough to not bring every piece of paper home and doesn't show you the ones that weren't perfect that you don't know about until you get the report card (or look online if that's availalbe).

What is "easy" to us is not so easy to a first grader either - and just wait until they are smarter than you. My son is brilliant in math I have had to rely on the answers in the back of the book for the last 5 years to check his work. It just is that way.

I think you're approach right now with let's review is the way to go. If he were rushing through the HW to get to the Wii - that's a different story...
2012-10-09 7:36 PM
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Subject: RE: Expecting perfection or just his best effort?

It seems too strict to me, but what do I know.

 

Do you expect him to go the rest of his life without missing a  question on a test? 

He is doing everything that you're asking him, seems go be a great kid from what we can tell.  He is more then likely trying his best, and doing great at it.   REWARD him.

 

2012-10-09 7:59 PM
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Subject: RE: Expecting perfection or just his best effort?
trigal38 - 2012-10-08 7:30 PM

My son is in first grade and we told him at the start of the school year if he came home from school, did his homework and practiced piano he could play the Wii for 30 min in the evening.

This has been going fine. He brings home a backpack full of papers with 100%, and gets his homework done without complaint... until a couple of weeks ago. He is still doing his work and he is still getting A's but he has started missing a couple of questions per test instead of getting 100%. The mistakes seem like easy stuff (to me) and things he knows when we do his homework. I think he may just be rushing through the test or not checking his work. Teacher conferences are coming up and I will ask about this but for now I'm thinking of telling him no Wii if questions are missed.

Is this too strict? Am I expecting perfection? I have not said too much about it yet, just something like oops, looks like you missed a couple of questions. We better practice that some more. 

What do you think?

 

Too strict (and our homework/Screen time policy is identical to yours!)  

You've made a deal on homework vs screen time so don't change the rules.

 

Look for other things that have changed to explain the new performance on tests...   Does the teacher differentiate work in the class, and start giving your son harder work or move him to a different peer group?

Did the teacher rearrange seating and sit him next to ... ahem ... a "more spirited child"  that will distract him during tests?  Don't forget that you're only a couple months into the school year and the material is starting to increase in intensity.

If he's still getting A's and really doing his best, don't sweat it.  Look for answers... if there's nothing obvious, leave it alone unless it gets worse.

Not that you need my affirmation, but it sounds like you "do it right."  Keep up the good work!



2012-10-09 8:10 PM
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Subject: RE: Expecting perfection or just his best effort?

What is your long term goal, and how is your plan going to achieve it?

That is the question I often pose to parents who get bogged down in battles with their kids and lose sight of the bigger picture. If your goal (long term) is to have a kid who only does what he will do well at, or who will only do easy things, or only do things if there is an immediate reward/consequence, then go ahead and penalize the <100%. But if your goal is to promote a kid who is not afraid to pursue his passions and interests, who does school work because learning things is fun, who can tolerate doing well even if it is not perfect, then yes, you are too strict.

Now, if his grades are C's, or he rushes through tests and then disrupts the class with goofing off, then you should talk to him about making a change. Maybe the teacher allows the kids to read quietly or do some other pleasurable activity when they finish their tests, so he has a perverse incentive to rush through his work. Or maybe he is so used to getting 100% that the idea that he did not, in fact, know or give the right answer is foreign to him (I remember a co-resident of my wife's, who it turned out, was so convinced that he was spelling things correctly all the time, that when his documents were offering autocorrections, he would tell the system to add his word to it's internal dictionary. Imagine the problems that caused for the networked system!). But if he getting A's, and still enthusiastic about school and homework, let it go.

2012-10-09 8:51 PM
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Subject: RE: Expecting perfection or just his best effort?

Good perspectives in many areas so thank you for your answers.  I had the same thought about what do I expect - for him to get everything right for the rest of his life?! I know I didn't. He will keep the Wii time. In fact tonight he didn't even ask to play the Wii so the point would have been totally missed anyway.

He has had a seating change from what he has told me. He is sitting by his current best friend at the back of the room and now I'm wondering if this is a distraction. Good point and another thing to discuss at conference time. I know at school he is the dependable student who always does his work but at home he really has a hard time when distracted by T.V. or his  loud sister .

He is not a good communicator, never has been. When he was 3 and went to preschool I was so excited and tried to talk to him about "how was your day" on the way home in the van. All he would say is "I don't want to talk about it!" and it hasn't changed since. We were just watching a show on T.V. and something came up about bullies. I asked him if anyone was a bully at his school. "Yes, but I don't want to talk about it!" I asked his sister the same question and she spilled the beans about every kid in her preschool and everything anyone has ever said or done LOL.

Thanks again!!

 

2012-10-09 9:04 PM
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Subject: RE: Expecting perfection or just his best effort?
Need to find a way to get him to open up. It was hard with my son. Now he is in HS and we go class by class through his day - he has to tell me 1 thing he got out of each class, even if it's Billy was a goofball in class today - when he was younger it was tell me 3 things you learned today - or 2 things you heard you already knew....
2012-10-09 10:16 PM
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Subject: RE: Expecting perfection or just his best effort?
trigal38 - 2012-10-09 4:30 PM

My son is in first grade and we told him at the start of the school year if he came home from school, did his homework and practiced piano he could play the Wii for 30 min in the evening.

This has been going fine. He brings home a backpack full of papers with 100%, and gets his homework done without complaint... until a couple of weeks ago. He is still doing his work and he is still getting A's but he has started missing a couple of questions per test instead of getting 100%. The mistakes seem like easy stuff (to me) and things he knows when we do his homework. I think he may just be rushing through the test or not checking his work. Teacher conferences are coming up and I will ask about this but for now I'm thinking of telling him no Wii if questions are missed.

Is this too strict? Am I expecting perfection? I have not said too much about it yet, just something like oops, looks like you missed a couple of questions. We better practice that some more. 

What do you think?

you said it best on the bolded part. that is the deal you made. did you stipulate a timeline for it. did you say you would re- in 2 months? I would suggest the most valuable lesson here is sticking to your word. if you did not stipulate that the work was dependent on his grades I would say he is full-filling it and he should just get his Wii time. If the grades are another issue and the teacher does not know what is happening I would create a new deal or incentive to address that (or not at all but just address it but positive re-enforcement is usually a good deal)

2012-10-10 12:04 AM
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Subject: RE: Expecting perfection or just his best effort?

Wii is cool.....we have family bowling tournaments even now that our kids are teens.  Have you checked out Wii fitness? Do you play with him?  Why only 1/2 hour?  You can make it work for you and let your son have some extra time.....everyone wins.

My experience with 5 kids is that if you make the window too short, like 1/2 hour...it becomes something they HAVE to have.....that 1/2 hour becomes a point of focus, and then a distraction. I let them play longer and payed with them...and they were more than happy to let me choose the game, as long as I played too.

Now my kids are teens and Wii and Xbox are secondary to them....their interests outside of school all center on fitness activities.  They'll play Wii with us, and our son will occasionally set off on a marathon session of Xbox with his buddies on the weekend....who cares?

On another note.....picking battles with your kids is hard stuff.  Requiring 100% makes it harder, on YOU.  We required 80 and praised like crazy when they got better than that.....after awhile, they got better than 80 because THEY wanted to.

Oh yeah.....we continue to make mistakes with them now and then...we all adjust and move on. 

Our results have been good. 



2012-10-10 12:31 AM
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Subject: RE: Expecting perfection or just his best effort?

I think that if you pulled 100% all through your school career, it may be reasonable to expect your kid to do the same.  Otherwise you ought to celebrate good grades that reflect his ability and effort.

I think I might have a conversation with the kid along the lines of "It's really great how well you're doing in school.  I noticed that before you were getting everything right and now you're missing a few questions about stuff that it seems like you know.  What's up with that?"  And maybe have a similar conversation with the teacher.  But not as a criticism or immediate cause for concern.

Might also keep in mind that lots of parents would love to have your problem.  There are plenty of kids out there whose best effort is C level work.

2012-10-10 7:08 AM
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Subject: RE: Expecting perfection or just his best effort?
Left Brain - 2012-10-10 12:04 AM

Wii is cool.....we have family bowling tournaments even now that our kids are teens.  Have you checked out Wii fitness? Do you play with him?  Why only 1/2 hour?  You can make it work for you and let your son have some extra time.....everyone wins.

My experience with 5 kids is that if you make the window too short, like 1/2 hour...it becomes something they HAVE to have.....that 1/2 hour becomes a point of focus, and then a distraction. I let them play longer and payed with them...and they were more than happy to let me choose the game, as long as I played too.

Now my kids are teens and Wii and Xbox are secondary to them....their interests outside of school all center on fitness activities.  They'll play Wii with us, and our son will occasionally set off on a marathon session of Xbox with his buddies on the weekend....who cares?

On another note.....picking battles with your kids is hard stuff.  Requiring 100% makes it harder, on YOU.  We required 80 and praised like crazy when they got better than that.....after awhile, they got better than 80 because THEY wanted to.

Oh yeah.....we continue to make mistakes with them now and then...we all adjust and move on. 

Our results have been good. 

The Wii is brand new to our family. The vacation rental we stayed at this summer had a Wii and the family really enjoyed it so I bought one for my husband for his birthday. We realized pretty quickly that my son was going to disappear into video game land if we didn't set some boundaries. 30 min is just a random time frame my husband and I chose simply because we think there are better things for him to be doing with his time - play outside, build something, the other night he got out my paints and painted fruit portraits.

I am taking into consideration with that 30 min all screen time - T.V., DS and he also likes to play Webkinz on the computer. I'm just trying to monitor total screen time. He really has not complained too much about the 30 min time frame. If he is in the middle of finishing a level or something I'll let him go until he loses and he is allowed to play however long he wants (within reason) on Sunday so he seems satisfied with that. My husband plays with the kids - video games are not my thing. I'll watch while I ride my bike on the trainer tough . At his age I notice the longer he plays the more absorbed he gets and the harder it is for him to think of other creative outlets.

We do not have Wii fitness - I did not/do not want to put anymore money into Wii stuff at this time. I did purchase Wii sports when I bought the Wii but they (kids and hubby) seem to like Super Mario the best. We have a small trampoline, a fitness size one, and the kids take turns jumping on the trampoline while it is not their turn. 

I like the idea of Wii fitness for Christmas though.

2012-10-10 7:23 AM
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Subject: RE: Expecting perfection or just his best effort?
tjh - 2012-10-10 12:31 AM

I think that if you pulled 100% all through your school career, it may be reasonable to expect your kid to do the same.  Otherwise you ought to celebrate good grades that reflect his ability and effort.

I think I might have a conversation with the kid along the lines of "It's really great how well you're doing in school.  I noticed that before you were getting everything right and now you're missing a few questions about stuff that it seems like you know.  What's up with that?"  And maybe have a similar conversation with the teacher.  But not as a criticism or immediate cause for concern.

Might also keep in mind that lots of parents would love to have your problem.  There are plenty of kids out there whose best effort is C level work.

No I definitely did NOT get perfect grades .

Thanks for keeping me grounded in reality all!

2012-10-10 7:39 AM
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Subject: RE: Expecting perfection or just his best effort?

Have you tried spanking?

 

 

2012-10-10 8:02 AM
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Subject: RE: Expecting perfection or just his best effort?

What we have found is that all it does is make them more stubborn. Positive reinforcement is a lot more persuasive than negative reinforcement. Similar to what others have said, he earns his Wii time based on performance, rather than taking it away.

But yes, expecting perfection is not reasonable. An "A" is an "A". If you're worried about a 97 instead of a 100 you're going to make him neurotic.

Another question: if he gets done early does he get to read or do something else he likes? This was an issue with my oldest, he loves to read more than anything and the school let them read if they finished taking a test before the class was over. So naturally he'd rush through to maximize reading time. The solution was that the teacher held the book and he could only have a limited amount of time to read, finished or not.



2012-10-10 8:07 AM
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Subject: RE: Expecting perfection or just his best effort?
Goosedog - 2012-10-10 8:39 AM

Have you tried spanking?

 

 

Or a tazer?

2012-10-10 8:16 AM
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Subject: RE: Expecting perfection or just his best effort?

Looks like the reward system you got is working, so why not expand it.  Keep the 30 minutes for homework, but tell him if he gets 100% on the tests he'll get an extra super awesome reward. Trip to the zoo, ice cream at Dairy Queen, whatever.  We have a reward jar for our kindergardner with about a dozen items that he loves.  He gets stickers at school for good behavior.  If he gets a sticker every day for the whole week, he gets to pull from the jar.  Nothing in the jar costs more than $10, and most of them are free (like the zoo or library), but pulling from the jar is the greatest thing in the world to him and it's worked wonders for us.

2012-10-10 8:45 AM
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Subject: RE: Expecting perfection or just his best effort?
trigal38 - 2012-10-09 5:30 PM

Is this too strict? Am I expecting perfection? I have not said too much about it yet, just something like oops, looks like you missed a couple of questions. We better practice that some more. 

What do you think?

and that is where I would leave things.  Sounds like your son is a good student, has good study habits...he just occassionally misses a couple questions.  Review what he is getting wrong and if you feel he does understand and was just rushing through, explain the importance of taking his time and doing it correctly.  My 10-year old son will at times get some problems wrong because he is in a hurry.  He has good study habits though (most of the time) and pulls good grades though.  For us,  that is what's important.

2012-10-10 8:57 AM
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Subject: RE: Expecting perfection or just his best effort?
My son was sort of the same. We have him correct any mistakes before starting his free time.
2012-10-10 9:12 AM
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Subject: RE: Expecting perfection or just his best effort?
trigal38 - 2012-10-09 7:30 PM

My son is in first grade and we told him at the start of the school year if he came home from school, did his homework and practiced piano he could play the Wii for 30 min in the evening.

This has been going fine. He brings home a backpack full of papers with 100%, and gets his homework done without complaint... until a couple of weeks ago. He is still doing his work and he is still getting A's but he has started missing a couple of questions per test instead of getting 100%. The mistakes seem like easy stuff (to me) and things he knows when we do his homework. I think he may just be rushing through the test or not checking his work. Teacher conferences are coming up and I will ask about this but for now I'm thinking of telling him no Wii if questions are missed.

Is this too strict? Am I expecting perfection? I have not said too much about it yet, just something like oops, looks like you missed a couple of questions. We better practice that some more. 

What do you think?

It is first grade.  This is a new experience.  The work is very easy at first and then gets harder.  You don't know what your child can do.  Mostly, the goal is to keep kids believing that anthing they want to do is possible, because it is.  Keep school interesting.  It should not be hard for a long, long time.

On this scenario, chill. Ask about the problems that he missed.  Ask if he got help on them. Low key.  No emphasis. You should just be monitoring more that giving feedback. You need to stay interested in the school work and brag on the good grades.  Your child draws motiviation from your approval.  Striving for approval works better than fear of disapproval over the long run.

On and by the way, first grade is a great year.  You are going to have so much fun seeing him grow into a little man.

TW



2012-10-10 9:35 AM
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Subject: RE: Expecting perfection or just his best effort?
trigal38 - 2012-10-09 5:30 PM

My son is in first grade and we told him at the start of the school year if he came home from school, did his homework and practiced piano he could play the Wii for 30 min in the evening.

This has been going fine. He brings home a backpack full of papers with 100%, and gets his homework done without complaint... until a couple of weeks ago. He is still doing his work and he is still getting A's but he has started missing a couple of questions per test instead of getting 100%. The mistakes seem like easy stuff (to me) and things he knows when we do his homework. I think he may just be rushing through the test or not checking his work. Teacher conferences are coming up and I will ask about this but for now I'm thinking of telling him no Wii if questions are missed.

Is this too strict? Am I expecting perfection? I have not said too much about it yet, just something like oops, looks like you missed a couple of questions. We better practice that some more. 

What do you think?



I highly encourage you to read the book "Mindset" by Carol Dweck. I cannot do it justice here but everyone who has read has expressed how it has changed their view of education and result orientated teaching as well as other aspect of life. As mentioned in the thread, by expecting perfection you may be setting a trap for your child and yourself.

http://mindsetonline.com/

2012-10-10 9:39 AM
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Subject: RE: Expecting perfection or just his best effort?
Bcozican - 2012-10-10 10:35 AM
trigal38 - 2012-10-09 5:30 PM

My son is in first grade and we told him at the start of the school year if he came home from school, did his homework and practiced piano he could play the Wii for 30 min in the evening.

This has been going fine. He brings home a backpack full of papers with 100%, and gets his homework done without complaint... until a couple of weeks ago. He is still doing his work and he is still getting A's but he has started missing a couple of questions per test instead of getting 100%. The mistakes seem like easy stuff (to me) and things he knows when we do his homework. I think he may just be rushing through the test or not checking his work. Teacher conferences are coming up and I will ask about this but for now I'm thinking of telling him no Wii if questions are missed.

Is this too strict? Am I expecting perfection? I have not said too much about it yet, just something like oops, looks like you missed a couple of questions. We better practice that some more. 

What do you think?

I highly encourage you to read the book "Mindset" by Carol Dweck. I cannot do it justice here but everyone who has read has expressed how it has changed their view of education and result orientated teaching as well as other aspect of life. As mentioned in the thread, by expecting perfection you may be setting a trap for your child and yourself. http://mindsetonline.com/

I met Carol Dweck recently.  She is a very nice person in addition to being an great researcher in cognitive behavior.  Her work regarding whether or not learning ability can be changed through education should be required reading for teachers everywhere.  It is all about motivation.

TW

2012-10-10 10:15 AM
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Subject: RE: Expecting perfection or just his best effort?

I said NO WIRE HANGERS!

2012-10-10 10:40 AM
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Subject: RE: Expecting perfection or just his best effort?
trigal38 - 2012-10-10 7:23 AM
tjh - 2012-10-10 12:31 AM

I think that if you pulled 100% all through your school career, it may be reasonable to expect your kid to do the same.  Otherwise you ought to celebrate good grades that reflect his ability and effort.

I think I might have a conversation with the kid along the lines of "It's really great how well you're doing in school.  I noticed that before you were getting everything right and now you're missing a few questions about stuff that it seems like you know.  What's up with that?"  And maybe have a similar conversation with the teacher.  But not as a criticism or immediate cause for concern.

Might also keep in mind that lots of parents would love to have your problem.  There are plenty of kids out there whose best effort is C level work.

No I definitely did NOT get perfect grades .

Thanks for keeping me grounded in reality all!

Er...you realize there is a difference between 100% effort and perfect grades?  (And isn't that really what is the heart of your quandry??

As a parent, I was more OK with 100% effort leading to a C than with 70% effort and still getting an A.  (What was really, really frustrating was when the 70% effort got a C and I couldn't motivate them to do more and get more, but that is a topic for another thread.

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