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2012-10-18 6:50 AM


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Subject: Increase running fitness

Was never much of a runner until I was introduced to tri/du about May of this year.  I was never much of a distance runner but when I started I couldn't do more than 1.5 miles.  Now I can run 10-12 miles at about a 9:30 pace without much problem.  The 9:30 min/mile pace just feels like i'm going for a jog and not pushing it at all. 

This offseason/winter I am taking swimming lessons to improve that and my other goal is to add to my aerobic base.  My goal is to increase that time (which just feels like an easy jog and doesn't even get me breathing hard) to about 8:30 by spring. 

Any training suggestions?  I have access to treadmills and an indoor track (very short though).  I will continue to run outside as long as its possible due to snow.  My goal for next fall is to run a marathon.  Thanks,



2012-10-18 6:55 AM
in reply to: #4458632

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Subject: RE: Increase running fitness
BarryP's run program (which is really all about consistency and frequency).

Bascially, take your current run volume and divide it by 9; this equals X. Then, run six times per week as:

3 short runs of X
2 medium runs of 2X
1 long run of 3X

All easy although you may want to include a few 30s strides in some of the runs. The goal is to finish every run knowing that you can do more. Then, slowly build up the volume over 3-6 months until you don't have the time for additional volume. At this point, then you will want to add in some intensity to keep building fitness.

Shane
2012-10-18 6:57 AM
in reply to: #4458632

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Subject: RE: Increase running fitness

The basic route to running faster is fairly simple. Build your mileage -- primarily through frequent steady running, e.g., 5-7 days/week -- and be as light as possible if you're not there already. If the 9:30/mile feels like a jog, then you could step up the pace a bit on some of the runs.

This series of articles from Slowtwitch is excellent. The BarryP 1-2-3 plan is really elegant in its simplicity, but incorporates many good features. 

2012-10-18 7:09 AM
in reply to: #4458632


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Subject: RE: Increase running fitness
Do you guys/girls use a treadmill for some of your workouts?  I don't really like them but its easier to increase your pace. 
2012-10-18 7:13 AM
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Subject: RE: Increase running fitness

Listen to the advice above.

gsmacleod - 2012-10-18 7:55 AM

BarryP's run program (which is really all about consistency and frequency). Bascially, take your current run volume and divide it by 9; this equals X. Then, run six times per week as:

X = (weekly mileage)/10

2012-10-18 7:15 AM
in reply to: #4458648

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Subject: RE: Increase running fitness

TrBeau17 - 2012-10-18 8:09 AM Do you guys/girls use a treadmill for some of your workouts?  I don't really like them but its easier to increase your pace. 

I use treadmill in the winter for two reasons.  One is to get some fast running in -- I find it easier to go faster when warmer.  Could be an age thing.  Another is to avoid running in dark.  Depending how much treadmill running you do, need to be careful when transitioning to more road running, which is more abusive to your legs than treadmill.



2012-10-18 7:18 AM
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Subject: RE: Increase running fitness
wiky - 2012-10-18 9:13 AM

X = (weekly mileage)/10



Oops! 10 not 9.

Shane
2012-10-18 7:25 AM
in reply to: #4458632


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Subject: RE: Increase running fitness

I'm currently running 20 miles/week, so I should be easy about to do the workout at least 5 days/week. 

So, 3 runs 2.0 miles, 2 runs 4.0 miles, 1 run 6 miles. 

So I fully understand, all the workouts are easy paced and I should feel pretty good at the end of each, since the 2.0 mile is so much shorter my pace should be faster for the short runs than the longer run?

2012-10-18 7:39 AM
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Subject: RE: Increase running fitness
TrBeau17 - 2012-10-18 9:09 AM

Do you guys/girls use a treadmill for some of your workouts?  I don't really like them but its easier to increase your pace. 


As I said earlier, I would spend the next 3-6 months running almost all easy; include some 30s strides but otherwise, lots of easy volume.

Using a treadmill to force yourself to run faster is not the way I would go about improving run fitness or pace; run lots, mostly easy, sometimes hard and your race pace will improve. Don't chase faster paces, let your training bring those paces to you.

Shane
2012-10-18 7:41 AM
in reply to: #4458670

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Subject: RE: Increase running fitness
TrBeau17 - 2012-10-18 9:25 AM

I'm currently running 20 miles/week, so I should be easy about to do the workout at least 5 days/week. 

So, 3 runs 2.0 miles, 2 runs 4.0 miles, 1 run 6 miles. 

So I fully understand, all the workouts are easy paced and I should feel pretty good at the end of each, since the 2.0 mile is so much shorter my pace should be faster for the short runs than the longer run?



Your shorter runs may be at a slightly higher pace than the longer runs but the goal is to run them easy. Don't worry about pace and keep the effort to what you feel is easy.

Shane
2012-10-18 7:45 AM
in reply to: #4458632


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Subject: RE: Increase running fitness

5-10% increase in distance/week ?

 

Thanks again for all the advice everyone.



2012-10-19 12:07 PM
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Subject: RE: Increase running fitness

How does the 1-2-3 running schedule match up with the training plans here on BT?  My Plan is the "Olympic - Swim Focused - 20 Week" plan which is 3-Swim, 2-Bike and 2-Run per week (7 sessions).  Do I do double sessions in order to get the right number of runs in, or do I do the 1,2,3 session, but do 2 short, 1 medium and 1 long run which would make the BT plan 3-Swim, 2-Bike and 4-Runs per week?  Seems like a lot and I would think would lead to over-training. 

So what is a good way to get the mileage in for the shock absorption, long term benefit of the 1,2,3 plan, but still have it fit in with the BT plans?

2012-10-19 12:29 PM
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Subject: RE: Increase running fitness
TrBeau17 - 2012-10-18 7:45 AM

5-10% increase in distance/week ?

 

Thanks again for all the advice everyone.

That's more of a typical upper limit for people. You don't have to increase that much every time. Or at any time. Listen to your body with this.

2012-10-19 12:32 PM
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Subject: RE: Increase running fitness

gsmacleod - 2012-10-18 7:39 AM
TrBeau17 - 2012-10-18 9:09 AM Do you guys/girls use a treadmill for some of your workouts?  I don't really like them but its easier to increase your pace. 
As I said earlier, I would spend the next 3-6 months running almost all easy; include some 30s strides but otherwise, lots of easy volume. Using a treadmill to force yourself to run faster is not the way I would go about improving run fitness or pace; run lots, mostly easy, sometimes hard and your race pace will improve. Don't chase faster paces, let your training bring those paces to you. Shane

I love this and I couldn't agree more. 

2012-10-19 12:33 PM
in reply to: #4458670

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Subject: RE: Increase running fitness
TrBeau17 - 2012-10-18 7:25 AM

I'm currently running 20 miles/week, so I should be easy about to do the workout at least 5 days/week. 

So, 3 runs 2.0 miles, 2 runs 4.0 miles, 1 run 6 miles. 

So I fully understand, all the workouts are easy paced and I should feel pretty good at the end of each, since the 2.0 mile is so much shorter my pace should be faster for the short runs than the longer run?

Shane addressed this, but just to make sure.

Easy pace is easy pace regardless of distance. When I'm not doing any efforts, my runs will all come in at about the same pace.

2012-10-19 7:03 PM
in reply to: #4460780

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Subject: RE: Increase running fitness
Carrick1973 - 2012-10-19 1:07 PM

How does the 1-2-3 running schedule match up with the training plans here on BT?  My Plan is the "Olympic - Swim Focused - 20 Week" plan which is 3-Swim, 2-Bike and 2-Run per week (7 sessions).  Do I do double sessions in order to get the right number of runs in, or do I do the 1,2,3 session, but do 2 short, 1 medium and 1 long run which would make the BT plan 3-Swim, 2-Bike and 4-Runs per week?  Seems like a lot and I would think would lead to over-training. 

So what is a good way to get the mileage in for the shock absorption, long term benefit of the 1,2,3 plan, but still have it fit in with the BT plans?

This is a good question. I'm not familiar with the specific BT plan that you're looking at, but I think that you'll find that many plans recommend relatively infrequent running. The 3-2-1 approach to running recommends much higher frequency, and at first it looks like there's no way to combine it with tri training. I think it's possible, though, and the results can be quite good.

The key is to run just about every day, including days when you're also swimming or biking. Those days will mostly be the shortest/easiest run days, and you can simply go out for a short run directly after the swim/bike. If you just add the time to change shoes/shorts and get out for 2-3 miles, with no additional travel, showering etc., it's a pretty time-efficient way to get in the training. 

So why run so frequently but not swim or bike so frequently? It's all about the impact stress of running. You can cram some swim and bike training into a smaller number of harder workouts. But you can't get away with that in running. You'll quickly get injured. Think of it not so much as doing more running, but as spreading the running out over more days.



2012-10-19 7:51 PM
in reply to: #4460815

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Subject: RE: Increase running fitness
brigby1 - 2012-10-19 7:29 AM
TrBeau17 - 2012-10-18 7:45 AM

5-10% increase in distance/week ?

 

Thanks again for all the advice everyone.

That's more of a typical upper limit for people. You don't have to increase that much every time. Or at any time. Listen to your body with this.

x2

You don't have to increase each week.  It's perfectly fine to stay steady at a certain mileage, then do a 5-10% increase, and sit at that mileage for another 2-4 weeks.

Keep in mind that all of this is just a "guideline."  I was doing something like BarryP's plan before I ever knew it existed.  I was doing three runs at about 3 miles.  Two runs at 6.5 miles.  And one long run in the 10-12 mile range.  Granted my distances don't line up perfectly like 3-2-1, but the idea is roughly the same. 

2012-10-19 11:08 PM
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Subject: RE: Increase running fitness

gsmacleod - 2012-10-18 4:55 AM BarryP's run program (which is really all about consistency and frequency). Bascially, take your current run volume and divide it by 9; this equals X. Then, run six times per week as: 3 short runs of X 2 medium runs of 2X 1 long run of 3X All easy although you may want to include a few 30s strides in some of the runs. The goal is to finish every run knowing that you can do more. Then, slowly build up the volume over 3-6 months until you don't have the time for additional volume. At this point, then you will want to add in some intensity to keep building fitness. Shane

 

I've been doing this program for about 5 weeks. (with the correction of x10) and I've almost shaved a minute off of my avg. mile time. I definitely support this plan!

2012-10-20 5:48 AM
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Subject: RE: Increase running fitness

I've been working on my overall form using Chi Running.

I wish to build up my running for an HIM next spring but I am plagued by sore feet from PF and worry about being derailed by overuse injury as I was in August. 

Since I've been using that program as a guide I've noticed a definite increase in speed and overall well being during my run training. 

2012-10-20 5:54 AM
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Subject: RE: Increase running fitness
colinphillips - 2012-10-19 8:03 PM 

So why run so frequently but not swim or bike so frequently? It's all about the impact stress of running. You can cram some swim and bike training into a smaller number of harder workouts. But you can't get away with that in running. You'll quickly get injured. Think of it not so much as doing more running, but as spreading the running out over more days.

That logic just makes good sense to me. Most days I do two workouts.

I've learned to get more running in by doing it early morning. 

I bike on a spinner, and do at least one long outdoor bike session on the weekends. 

2012-10-22 12:03 PM
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Subject: RE: Increase running fitness
I picked up running rather late,age 42, started Completely on my own. Ran way too fast and never progressed. Then Followed a plan of four or five runs per week 2 short 1 or 2 medium and one long. The key was running easy. Ran aerobically the entire time. Initially was running around 10 minute /mile. After five months was running 8:03 at 9 miles. Injury free.


2012-10-22 12:26 PM
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Subject: RE: Increase running fitness
colinphillips - 2012-10-19 7:03 PM

This is a good question. I'm not familiar with the specific BT plan that you're looking at, but I think that you'll find that many plans recommend relatively infrequent running. The 3-2-1 approach to running recommends much higher frequency, and at first it looks like there's no way to combine it with tri training. I think it's possible, though, and the results can be quite good.

The key is to run just about every day, including days when you're also swimming or biking. Those days will mostly be the shortest/easiest run days, and you can simply go out for a short run directly after the swim/bike. If you just add the time to change shoes/shorts and get out for 2-3 miles, with no additional travel, showering etc., it's a pretty time-efficient way to get in the training. 

So why run so frequently but not swim or bike so frequently? It's all about the impact stress of running. You can cram some swim and bike training into a smaller number of harder workouts. But you can't get away with that in running. You'll quickly get injured. Think of it not so much as doing more running, but as spreading the running out over more days.

Thanks for this response - it's a question I've had myself since starting to do the BarryP plan myself.  I had resolved myself to letting the bike fitness slack off over the winter and then picking it back up again in the springtime, but if there aren't any issues with combining it with the short days (listen to my body, I know!) then that sounds like a reasonable alternative.

2012-10-23 10:22 AM
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Subject: RE: Increase running fitness
Have you increased your distance/time each week or month?
2012-10-23 10:23 AM
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Subject: RE: Increase running fitness

Rad-Onc PA - 2012-10-22 12:03 PM I picked up running rather late,age 42, started Completely on my own. Ran way too fast and never progressed. Then Followed a plan of four or five runs per week 2 short 1 or 2 medium and one long. The key was running easy. Ran aerobically the entire time. Initially was running around 10 minute /mile. After five months was running 8:03 at 9 miles. Injury free.

Have you increased your distance on a weekly/monthly basis?

2012-10-23 10:30 AM
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Subject: RE: Increase running fitness

gsmacleod - 2012-10-18 6:55 AM BarryP's run program (which is really all about consistency and frequency). Bascially, take your current run volume and divide it by 9; this equals X. Then, run six times per week as: 3 short runs of X 2 medium runs of 2X 1 long run of 3X All easy although you may want to include a few 30s strides in some of the runs. The goal is to finish every run knowing that you can do more. Then, slowly build up the volume over 3-6 months until you don't have the time for additional volume. At this point, then you will want to add in some intensity to keep building fitness. Shane

 

 I think this is one of the best run programs out there.  doesn't matter if you are just starting off, coming back from an injury or been running a while. 

I restarted doing it after a non running injury that kept me from running,  and started logging it again back in ?aug? so I would stick to it and not over do things

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