Why you should swim with a Snorkel and other new ideas...

>>>not true. I saw a presentation of strokes counts and DPS for all of the swimmers in the Finals and the American woman with the fastest turnover, and shortest DPS won the Gold. Think Janet Evans. DPS doesn't work for everyone. I have seen this hundreds if not thousands of times with the athletes I coach and have coached over 20+ years. Each swimmer has to find that 'sweet spot' and the TT will help you do that and make a nice tempo for you to swim at.

A metranone only focuses on maintaining a specific stroke count. Which can be good if you already have good swim form and have establlished a good pace relative to the distance you are training. IMHO, the mentrone may be good for very experienced swimmers, but may not so much for beginners or even average swimmers.

>>I dont' agree for the simple reason that it will get you into a consistent swim stroke just like it will help with consistent run cadence or bike cadence for that matter.

Higher turnover rate is counter productive unless distance gained per stroke is increased.

>>>See above

 The best use of a metranone is to have the device help you determine the slowest turn over rate relative to the fastest swim time for a specific distance.

>>>Ok - you said what I said above so we agree on that. You still can't be out there swimming 14 strokes per length if it's taking you 2:05 to swim a 50 though. That's too much like TI and I don't agree with that philosophy at all. If you want to swim fast, you need to swim fast. Same for running and biking as well.

Unless I misunderstood your post... I see the mentranone as a tool that could be used to help set a good pace defined by a pretermined "efficient" stroke count. And, this predetermined stroke count is best determined by distance covered per stroke (i.e., efficiency of effort).

>>>have you tried the TT? Just curious?

For this reason, I found the old Speedo Lap counter to be a much better tool to use (I wish they still made that device... mine still works... but, they had a lot of those devices not work).

>>>PS - you are pretty smart for a young guy (avator!) ;-) FWIW Joe Moya

Thanks Mike!

Now, about this tools for training: I am really REALLY looking to get my swim to be consistent sub 20-19 min per 1.5K (right now I am at 21ish min although my OWS is a bit slower but I think is because my wetsuit restricts my stroke) I have the time and I can spend up to 4 times a week in the pool and 1-2 doing OW. I still have some work to do on my stroke but if I get any of the suggested tools, is there a place where I can learn the best way to use them and take full advantage?

Snorkels: Right now I am experimenting with the Finis Swimmer's Snorkel (cost is $39.99)- the main reasons I am trying this:
1. The Australian National Team is using them in all their training
2. They increase VO2 as it's harder to get O2 when you are breathing through the snorkel
3. It will help you see your entry, hand position and catch b/c you aren't turning your head to breath.  

So

It sure would! Not getting O2 at the source makes it tougher to breath.

Would biking or running with a snorkel provide the same benefit?

Mike,

 This might be a stupid question, but are snorkels legal during a race? I honestly don't know if it could help improve performance. I have never thought of using one, but a friend of mine has asked me this question. I checked Triathlon Quebec's (yes I am in Canada) and there is no mention of it.

Not a stupid question at all. I know the race I am doing this weekend, states 'no snorkels' - so I don't think they are legal.

Not a stupid question at all. I know the race I am doing this weekend, states 'no snorkels' - so I don't think they are legal.

>>>Joe - as a 10 year vet - why wouldn't you try something new - I don't know your history nor your background, body type of anything like that - but I have tried anything and everything to see if it works. Actually I feel it's my obligation to do that as a coach and if I find something that works, I'll tell people about it. In other words - I think you can swim faster than you do - without even seeing you how swim - not knowing any of your swim times, etc - b/c I have the confidence that I CAN make you a better swimmer. if you don't believe me go ask one of my 58 yr old athletes who started swimming when he was 54 - we had him down to 1:09 IM swim in 2 years from ZERO. I guess that's why I try everything with everyone - you never know what might work.

>>>Joe - A metranone only focuses on maintaining a specific stroke count. Which can be good if you already have good swim form and have establlished a good pace relative to the distance you are training. IMHO, the mentrone may be good for very experienced swimmers, but may not so much for beginners or even average swimmers. >>>I dont' agree for the simple reason that it will get you into a consistent swim stroke just like it will help with consistent run cadence or bike cadence for that matter. Consistent stroke with bad form doesn't make you a better swimmer. Better form with an efficient pace makes for a better swimmer. Assuming good form and efficient stroke... the metranome will be useful. >>>Joe - The best use of a metranone is to have the device help you determine the slowest turn over rate relative to the fastest swim time for a specific distance. >>>Ok - you said what I said above so we agree on that. You still can't be out there swimming 14 strokes per length if it's taking you 2:05 to swim a 50 though. That's too much like TI and I don't agree with that philosophy at all. If you want to swim fast, you need to swim fast. Same for running and biking as well. Well... I would agree... but, maybe where we are divided has more to do with the level of experience of a swimmer and the relative value of a metranome for various swim distances. TI can help some swimmers... and, it can hurt others. IMHO, TI will be of most benefit for novice swimmers with no natural ability. TI may actually hurt swimmers who have a natural ability. IMO, TI is like a version of a 101 course in swimming... it is a training method that needs to be evaluated but it is not an end unto itself. There are many training methods... TI is just one. >>>have you tried the TT? Just curious? Nope...

>>>this is my case in point! how would you know, unless you tried it? it's not even about using the TEMPO TRAINER for stroking your arms, but to get your hips in a natural groove. That's how we swim fast, by driving our hips, not by pulling faster.

I have used and still use the Speedo Lap counter which basically can be adapted to do the same thing by looking at your stroke count... I think I will give that device a try some day... but, I don't think I have the developed good enough form

>>>Well, endurance and form - in swimming you need both so improve one and you'll improve the other, no doubt about it.

 to find it as much of an advantage for my current training (i.e., IM distances). NOW!... That is where efficiency of stroke becomes a REAL issue... turnover is of less value at my current level of training and current training goals.

>>>Forget turnover and think about hip rotation.

PS - nice race at Buff Springs - I wish we could have met.