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2012-12-14 11:29 AM

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Subject: Irresponsible gun owners
These are the people who are procuring guns legally, and this is why I worry about things going forward. Maybe it used to be that people who owned guns were responsible, but as guns become more easily obtained and more people think they need a gun for protection, we're just going to see more and more of these types of incidences. This one-minute google search is why I feel more restrictions should be put on gun ownership. At the very least punish people more severely who don't do things like lock up their guns or people who accidentally shoot their friends. Because I already know the gun/car analogies are going to fly off the shelves like McRibs, I will get a head start by saying that, yes, even in a car accident someone is at fault, and someone usually gets a ticket for failure to yield or following too closely. Maybe a ticket for `failure to lock up your gun, dummy!' or `Failure to use common sense when handling a gun, dummy!'

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/12/15860148-girl-5-shoots-h...

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2012/12/13/news/no-jai...

http://www.1011now.com/home/headlines/Three-People-Accidentally-Sho...

http://fox2now.com/2012/12/12/12-year-old-shoots-kills-friend-while...

http://radio.foxnews.com/2012/12/09/pa-boy-accidentally-shot-killed...

http://abcnews.go.com/US/washington-officers-daughter-accidentally-...

http://articles.philly.com/2012-12-06/news/35624017_1_chesco-woman-...

http://stamford.patch.com/articles/former-stamford-football-player-...

http://www.wthr.com/story/19958361/boy-15-killed-in-accidental-shoo...

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/04/24/va-couple-accidentally-shot-at...


2012-12-14 11:32 AM
in reply to: #4535429

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Irresponsible gun owners
So what is the % of all the guns owned to the 10 stories you posted and the % of people that die from medical negligence? What do you think has the bigger %?
2012-12-14 11:32 AM
in reply to: #4535429

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Subject: RE: Irresponsible gun owners
Wel said Tony.
2012-12-14 11:34 AM
in reply to: #4535429

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Subject: RE: Irresponsible gun owners
I agree with you Tony, there should be consequences for irresponsible gun owners.
2012-12-14 11:36 AM
in reply to: #4535429

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Subject: RE: Irresponsible gun owners

Would you care to see the list of irresponsible car owners. How about irresponsible knife owners? How about irresponsible people in general... or just the ones that cause all the vital product safety info like... do not hang your self with this extension cord?

We could discuss all the irresponsible workers that hurt or kill their co-workers. Maybe irresponsible doctors that kill patients every year, how about irresponsible plastic surgeons.....

2012-12-14 11:37 AM
in reply to: #4535429

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Subject: RE: Irresponsible gun owners
I'm not using my first amendment rights. Take them please.

Something's gotta change: the status quo isn't working.

Stop this insanity now!


2012-12-14 11:37 AM
in reply to: #4535435

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Subject: RE: Irresponsible gun owners
Big Appa - 2012-12-14 11:32 AM

So what is the % of all the guns owned to the 10 stories you posted and the % of people that die from medical negligence? What do you think has the bigger %?


OK so are you saying gun owners should have to buy a sort of a malpractice insurance? I'd be OK with that. I know homeowner insurance rates are higher for people who have guns in some areas, or I think they are, but I doubt they equate to what doctors have to pay for malpractice insurance. Did you want to talk about medical malpractice insurance? Why not just stick with the car/gun analogy, it's much more plausible.
2012-12-14 11:38 AM
in reply to: #4535439

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Subject: RE: Irresponsible gun owners

jford2309 - 2012-12-14 10:34 AM I agree with you Tony, there should be consequences for irresponsible gun owners.

There are... manslaughter, reckless endagerment, child endangerment, child neglect, intoxicated while in possesion of a firearm, improper use of a firearm, improper discharge of a firearm, discharge of a firearm in city limits......



Edited by powerman 2012-12-14 11:42 AM
2012-12-14 11:40 AM
in reply to: #4535441

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Subject: RE: Irresponsible gun owners
powerman - 2012-12-14 9:36 AM

Would you care to see the list of irresponsible car owners. How about irresponsible knife owners? How about irresponsible people in general... or just the ones that cause all the vital product safety info like... do not hang your self with this extension cord?

We could discuss all the irresponsible workers that hurt or kill their co-workers. Maybe irresponsible doctors that kill patients every year, how about irresponsible plastic surgeons.....

Why I got to be hanging people?

2012-12-14 11:41 AM
in reply to: #4535441

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Subject: RE: Irresponsible gun owners
powerman - 2012-12-14 12:36 PM

Would you care to see the list of irresponsible car owners. How about irresponsible knife owners? How about irresponsible people in general... or just the ones that cause all the vital product safety info like... do not hang your self with this extension cord?

We could discuss all the irresponsible workers that hurt or kill their co-workers. Maybe irresponsible doctors that kill patients every year, how about irresponsible plastic surgeons.....

McRibs anyone?

2012-12-14 11:42 AM
in reply to: #4535447

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Subject: RE: Irresponsible gun owners

mr2tony - 2012-12-14 9:37 AM
Big Appa - 2012-12-14 11:32 AM So what is the % of all the guns owned to the 10 stories you posted and the % of people that die from medical negligence? What do you think has the bigger %?
OK so are you saying gun owners should have to buy a sort of a malpractice insurance? I'd be OK with that. I know homeowner insurance rates are higher for people who have guns in some areas, or I think they are, but I doubt they equate to what doctors have to pay for malpractice insurance. Did you want to talk about medical malpractice insurance? Why not just stick with the car/gun analogy, it's much more plausible.

Read powerman's reply.

In rebuttal to your post so if we get the insurance we can kill people and be ok with no jail time?



2012-12-14 11:42 AM
in reply to: #4535451

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Subject: RE: Irresponsible gun owners
powerman - 2012-12-14 11:38 AM

jford2309 - 2012-12-14 10:34 AM I agree with you Tony, there should be consequences for irresponsible gun owners.

There are... manslaughter, reckless endagerment, child endangerment, child neglect, intoxicated while in possesion of a firearm, improper use of a firearm, improper discharge of a firearm, discharge of a firearm in city limits......

...and I agree with them!  something was lost in the typing and they way it sounded when I typed it!

2012-12-14 11:49 AM
in reply to: #4535429

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Subject: RE: Irresponsible gun owners

I agree.  I'm all for people having guns to hunt, have done it myself.  But, I remember when I used to hunt, we were extremely careful with out guns.  Each of us would check that there was no shell in the chamber of our gun, then when loading the car, we'd make sure again, and sometimes leave it open so there was no way either a shell could be in there, of if there was, could fire accidentally. 

But, my bigger issue these days is the culture of violence that we promote.  I know that I'm a peace loving, liberal hippie goofball, (as pointed out by my friends in the Great State of Texas), but it does trouble me how much we promote violence in this country.  Its everywhere, from video games to the sports we watch, to what we find acceptable on T.V.  I remember watching Bones one time, and they showed this guy literally get his head blown off, with blood and brain matter splattered over the side of a van.  That's ok to show.  But, Janet Jackson has part of her nipple show for a fraction of a second, couldn't see it unless you had Tivo and looked for it, and that causes national outrage?  When Saving Private Ryan was going to be shown on T.V. the issue that came up was not the opening scene, which I think is fantastic, but that there is the odd F Bomb dropped. 

We accept and embrace violence in this country.  We accept, embrace, and celebrate a gun culture.  I know, not all of us, and not all of us embrace and accept all of it, but as a country, this is where we are.  Sorry to hijack the tread somewhat, but I would like to see the dialog in this country change somewhat.  I'm not as interested in directly controlling what guns people have, but I would like us to address the culture of violence we have.

I often joke with my wife that what we really ought to do is legalize pot and hand out porn to everyone.  Get everyone high and horny.  Would make for a different world than people getting drunk and watching their preferred form of violence.

2012-12-14 11:50 AM
in reply to: #4535429

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Subject: RE: Irresponsible gun owners


Nothing in the constitution affords me the right to drive a car (or horse and buggy or bike or whatnot).....but I'm afforded the right to carry a gun. legally and protected.

Why punish the ones that are responsible for the ones that aren't (or obtaining and using a gun illegally).

Said it once....and I'll say it again. An Armed Society is a Polite Society.

Up until this week, Chicago didn't have a CCW law....meaning only thugs had them. What is your murder rate? Break in rate? Robbery/Rape rate?

Texas....we have rights and I konw our rates are lower. Thugs aren't going to take as many chances if they know you're possibly carrying.

Take your Demo-crap-tic rhetoric somewhere else......

This is America!

AMERICA!

2012-12-14 11:50 AM
in reply to: #4535441

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Subject: RE: Irresponsible gun owners
powerman - 2012-12-14 11:36 AM

Would you care to see the list of irresponsible car owners. How about irresponsible knife owners? How about irresponsible people in general... or just the ones that cause all the vital product safety info like... do not hang your self with this extension cord?

We could discuss all the irresponsible workers that hurt or kill their co-workers. Maybe irresponsible doctors that kill patients every year, how about irresponsible plastic surgeons.....



Yes, ignoring irresponsible gun owners is the key. Let's just change the subject and create a red herring argument to keep people focused on everything EXCEPT the topic at hand.
2012-12-14 11:54 AM
in reply to: #4535478

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Subject: RE: Irresponsible gun owners
mr2tony - 2012-12-14 9:50 AM
powerman - 2012-12-14 11:36 AM

Would you care to see the list of irresponsible car owners. How about irresponsible knife owners? How about irresponsible people in general... or just the ones that cause all the vital product safety info like... do not hang your self with this extension cord?

We could discuss all the irresponsible workers that hurt or kill their co-workers. Maybe irresponsible doctors that kill patients every year, how about irresponsible plastic surgeons.....

Yes, ignoring irresponsible gun owners is the key. Let's just change the subject and create a red herring argument to keep people focused on everything EXCEPT the topic at hand.

They are not ignored they are dealt with according to the law.



2012-12-14 11:54 AM
in reply to: #4535477

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Subject: RE: Irresponsible gun owners
As suspected, trying to change the subject to cars instead of actually debating about guns. All you can say is `CARS ARE DANGEROUS TOO!' How about actually having a conversation about guns without bringing it back to cars?
2012-12-14 11:54 AM
in reply to: #4535478

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Subject: RE: Irresponsible gun owners
mr2tony - 2012-12-14 10:50 AM
powerman - 2012-12-14 11:36 AM

Would you care to see the list of irresponsible car owners. How about irresponsible knife owners? How about irresponsible people in general... or just the ones that cause all the vital product safety info like... do not hang your self with this extension cord?

We could discuss all the irresponsible workers that hurt or kill their co-workers. Maybe irresponsible doctors that kill patients every year, how about irresponsible plastic surgeons.....

Yes, ignoring irresponsible gun owners is the key. Let's just change the subject and create a red herring argument to keep people focused on everything EXCEPT the topic at hand.

Well you tell me... what is the key word in your thread.... GUN... or IRRESPONSIBLE?

What is your point? You want special laws for irresponsible owners...there already are. You really think a law is going to fix stupid?

Or is it that since some are irresponsible, then none can be trusted... you tell me.

2012-12-14 11:57 AM
in reply to: #4535478

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Subject: RE: Irresponsible gun owners
mr2tony - 2012-12-14 10:50 AM
powerman - 2012-12-14 11:36 AM

Would you care to see the list of irresponsible car owners. How about irresponsible knife owners? How about irresponsible people in general... or just the ones that cause all the vital product safety info like... do not hang your self with this extension cord?

We could discuss all the irresponsible workers that hurt or kill their co-workers. Maybe irresponsible doctors that kill patients every year, how about irresponsible plastic surgeons.....

Yes, ignoring irresponsible gun owners is the key. Let's just change the subject and create a red herring argument to keep people focused on everything EXCEPT the topic at hand.

You mean the fiscal cliff?

2012-12-14 11:59 AM
in reply to: #4535491

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Subject: RE: Irresponsible gun owners
Big Appa - 2012-12-14 11:54 AM

mr2tony - 2012-12-14 9:50 AM
powerman - 2012-12-14 11:36 AM

Would you care to see the list of irresponsible car owners. How about irresponsible knife owners? How about irresponsible people in general... or just the ones that cause all the vital product safety info like... do not hang your self with this extension cord?

We could discuss all the irresponsible workers that hurt or kill their co-workers. Maybe irresponsible doctors that kill patients every year, how about irresponsible plastic surgeons.....

Yes, ignoring irresponsible gun owners is the key. Let's just change the subject and create a red herring argument to keep people focused on everything EXCEPT the topic at hand.

They are not ignored they are dealt with according to the law.



From one of the articles you didn't even bother reading:
Washington has no law that includes criminal penalties for adults who allow children to get their hands on guns.

From another:
A similar case last week in Minneapolis resulted in the death of left a 2-year-old boy. Police said the boy's 4-year-old brother accidentally fired the fatal shot. No charges have been filed in that case.
2012-12-14 12:01 PM
in reply to: #4535505

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Subject: RE: Irresponsible gun owners
mr2tony - 2012-12-14 10:59 AM
Big Appa - 2012-12-14 11:54 AM
mr2tony - 2012-12-14 9:50 AM
powerman - 2012-12-14 11:36 AM

Would you care to see the list of irresponsible car owners. How about irresponsible knife owners? How about irresponsible people in general... or just the ones that cause all the vital product safety info like... do not hang your self with this extension cord?

We could discuss all the irresponsible workers that hurt or kill their co-workers. Maybe irresponsible doctors that kill patients every year, how about irresponsible plastic surgeons.....

Yes, ignoring irresponsible gun owners is the key. Let's just change the subject and create a red herring argument to keep people focused on everything EXCEPT the topic at hand.

They are not ignored they are dealt with according to the law.

From one of the articles you didn't even bother reading: Washington has no law that includes criminal penalties for adults who allow children to get their hands on guns. From another: A similar case last week in Minneapolis resulted in the death of left a 2-year-old boy. Police said the boy's 4-year-old brother accidentally fired the fatal shot. No charges have been filed in that case.

Child endangerment might not specifically apply to guns but it can definitely be used in a case like this if deemed appropriate by the prosecutor. 



2012-12-14 12:04 PM
in reply to: #4535429

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Subject: RE: Irresponsible gun owners

Of course the whole 24 hour nesw cycle and the instant acess to vast amounts of information has nothing to do with the perception about gun chrimes.

2012-12-14 12:05 PM
in reply to: #4535494

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Subject: RE: Irresponsible gun owners
powerman - 2012-12-14 11:54 AM

mr2tony - 2012-12-14 10:50 AM
powerman - 2012-12-14 11:36 AM

Would you care to see the list of irresponsible car owners. How about irresponsible knife owners? How about irresponsible people in general... or just the ones that cause all the vital product safety info like... do not hang your self with this extension cord?

We could discuss all the irresponsible workers that hurt or kill their co-workers. Maybe irresponsible doctors that kill patients every year, how about irresponsible plastic surgeons.....

Yes, ignoring irresponsible gun owners is the key. Let's just change the subject and create a red herring argument to keep people focused on everything EXCEPT the topic at hand.

Well you tell me... what is the key word in your thread.... GUN... or IRRESPONSIBLE?

What is your point? You want special laws for irresponsible owners...there already are. You really think a law is going to fix stupid?

Or is it that since some are irresponsible, then none can be trusted... you tell me.



There are laws for irresponsible gun owners? Again:

Washington has no law that includes criminal penalties for adults who allow children to get their hands on guns.

How about they make one? Are you opposed to them making a law that says you get in trouble if your kid gets a gun and shoots himself? And if so, why?
2012-12-14 12:07 PM
in reply to: #4535510

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Subject: RE: Irresponsible gun owners
Aarondb4 - 2012-12-14 12:01 PM

mr2tony - 2012-12-14 10:59 AM
Big Appa - 2012-12-14 11:54 AM
mr2tony - 2012-12-14 9:50 AM
powerman - 2012-12-14 11:36 AM

Would you care to see the list of irresponsible car owners. How about irresponsible knife owners? How about irresponsible people in general... or just the ones that cause all the vital product safety info like... do not hang your self with this extension cord?

We could discuss all the irresponsible workers that hurt or kill their co-workers. Maybe irresponsible doctors that kill patients every year, how about irresponsible plastic surgeons.....

Yes, ignoring irresponsible gun owners is the key. Let's just change the subject and create a red herring argument to keep people focused on everything EXCEPT the topic at hand.

They are not ignored they are dealt with according to the law.

From one of the articles you didn't even bother reading: Washington has no law that includes criminal penalties for adults who allow children to get their hands on guns. From another: A similar case last week in Minneapolis resulted in the death of left a 2-year-old boy. Police said the boy's 4-year-old brother accidentally fired the fatal shot. No charges have been filed in that case.

Child endangerment might not specifically apply to guns but it can definitely be used in a case like this if deemed appropriate by the prosecutor. 



Washington has no law that includes criminal penalties for adults who allow children to get their hands on guns.
2012-12-14 12:08 PM
in reply to: #4535429

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Subject: RE: Irresponsible gun owners

I don't think Tony or anybody else is saying 'take the guns away from owners' which is what folks jump all over, the whole "from my cold dead hands"

What most of us would like is for it to be more difficult to get guns.  Several like to use the car analogy well, we make people get a license and carry insurance and they have to pay yearly for inspection/plates etc.  And they have to get their license renewed every 2-4 years depending on where you live.  I'd just like to see the same for gun owners.  I think they should have to read a book, take classes and pass a test before being allowed to buy a firearm.  Nobody said 'no guns, period'

Here in Texas my 17 year old son had to read a book, pay for and take six weeks of classes and we have to ride with him during several drives an sign off on it.  Then he has to take a written test then a driving test.  I am glad for all of this.  It just seems asking the same for gun ownership isn't too much to ask.

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