Motorcycle crashes into cyclists!

I saw that on the news this morning.  Yeah it could have been a lot worse.

As a former motorcyclist and somebody whose ridden Mullholland on several occasions I'm going to say the motorcyclist was going way too fast for his abilities (and he wasn't going that fast).  From a speed standpoint he could have easily made that turn on that bike, but appears to have panicked and straightened up on the corner for some reason.  It almost looks like he hit the bikers on purpose, but he likely saw them and stood up to hit the brakes versus just staying engaged in the corner.

Yeah that corner is Youtube famous, there are tons of wrecks there all the time. 

Motorcyclist got target fixation when he saw the cyclist. Rather dumb move on the cyclists part to ride that road given it's infamy for people in fast cars and on motorcycles going way too fast and crashing.  

I agree 100%....but I bet we are in the minority of cyclists.  Just because you have every bit as much right as other vehicles to be on a road of your choice doesn't mean the choice is a good one.

I agree with everything you wrote....what does that have to do with riding on a road where crashes happen almost every day?  I think that's a poor choice on where to ride, but yeah, you certainly have every right to ride there.  Have fun.

Maybe you should take a poll.  I agree that riding on some roads, although one has the right, is not a good idea.  There are several roads in my area that I have the right to ride on but don't due to safety.  My right to ride does my family no good if I am killed while riding on dangerous roads.

I read the article that ChrisM posted on the thread about this same topic.

I guess list pro cyclist George Hincapie and the RD for the Amgen Tour of California as some of the dumb cyclists.  They were in that group of riders (informal group ride) but further ahead when it happened.

ETA:  I would probably ride it if I visited LA.  Looks like a beautiful ride.  Maybe do it a couple times a year.  Would I take it every day on my commute?  Probably not.

Sure enough, there are dozens and dozens of youtube clips of that corner.

Yep.  George will look the same as you or I if he gets waffled by some idiot showing off on those roads. As has been posted, that road is a crash fest......and as you know, bicycles and their riders don't fare well vs. cars and motorcycles.

you are lucky.  a friend and i got buzzed - a very intentional buzz - on our weekly ride last thursday - on a very safe road that we ride all the time.  i'm slowly learning to avoid more and more roads when riding.

I would say they have a different comfort level with the risks they are willing to take, not DUMB or making dumb moves.

The exact same reason I defend gun owners for being called "dumb" because people think guns are dangerous.  I don't call sky divers dumb, or other extreme sport athletes.  Or people who might do an OWS or surf alone making dumb moves.  Or motorcyclists in general.  Or running at night.

If you don't feel it's safe, then don't do it.  But calling the people that do want to do it "dumb" or making a "dumb move" is name calling.  I'm sure everyone does certain things that seem dangerous or unsafe to others.  I don't think they should be called "dumb" for it.

If doing something dangerous is a dumb move, then there are a lot of dumb people out there.  Even entire occupations.  Emergency personal/first responders, the military, construction workers...  Dangerous jobs.  But they have a higher level of acceptance of the danger/risk and do things that some people would say "NO WAY they would do that".

I object to the name calling.  If anything, I would say it's a "risky" choice - but if they are comfortable with that risk?  That's on them.  It's not fare to say they are making a dumb move because I'M too afraid to do it.

Target fixation on the Boo-Tay? 

no no, this guy started to pass us, slowed down to our speed when he was next to us, and moved to the right until he almost hit our handlebars.

You know, saying something is a "dumb move" isn't necessarily name calling, is it?  At least it isn't in my book.  I guess if it is, my wife should quit calling me names.

I guess I ride my bike and motorcycle with care, heightened attention, and caution, not fear.  If I was truly afraid, I wouldn't do it.  I do that stuff for fun - and being afraid is NOT fun to me.

That's why I DON'T go off big jumps or drops on my MTN bike or snowboard.  I'm afraid of that stuff.  Where as biking in traffic doesn't cause fear in me - elevated caution, perhaps.  I also assume that NO ONE is paying attention or sees me while riding.

Same deal, different choice of words......same meaning.  I go into buildings where armed bad guys are, and I can call what I feel apple pie or whatever term makes everyone happy......we all know what it is.

True, risky is the more PC word choice than dumb. But there is an argument to be had either direction.

You use gun owners as an example, here is an argument for that. Some say just owning a gun is more dangerous than not and would call the act of having a gun in the house "dumb" or "risky". The same can be said for riding a bike on the street, also could be seen as dumb or risky. Both are well within the rights of the person doing it, and the riskiness or dumbness of the person is up to interpretation.

Now take a gun owner who decides he will have 3-4 beers before handling his loaded weapon or cleaning his loaded weapons in his house. Still within his right as there is no law against such a thing but IMO pretty durn dumb. Same to me as a bicyclist riding on a road that is world renowned for people driving like idiots on it. You can watch hundreds of videos of people going off that same shoulder after taking the corner too fast. Still well within the cyclists right to ride there, but IMO pretty durn dumb. 

I am sure we can all think of a road nearby that is legal for a cyclist to be on but that we would never ride on due to either space constraints, speed of traffic or amount of traffic, some roads are just "dumb" to ride on IMO.

Now of course that is my opinion only and the cyclist is free to knock himself out on any road that is legal, but I reserve the right to call them dumb when they get hit.

Wrong.  That's what words are for and they have different meanings - and why we have so many, to get a point across.

If you came home and said you ran in to a bank and felt "apple pie".  NO ONE would have a clue what you meant.  That's not what apple pie means.  Unless somehow you can convince everyone to change their mind that it DOES mean that.

Caution is an action to avoid danger or mistakes.  Fear is an emotion based on a belief that something is a threat - they are not even synonyms.  You may (or may not) be cautious BECAUSE of fear, but they don't have the same meaning.