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Back-to-back Ironman within 5 weeks
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 2016-05-15 12:30 PM |
 5 |  Subject: Back-to-back Ironman within 5 weeksHi, I'm new to this forum and have a question: I've registered for an IM in late August which will be my main goal for the season. It turns out that there is another IM just five weeks before, which I for personal reasons would love to add to my race calendar. I'd like to have some input if that is simply stupid. My backround: 50 years old. I have only done one triathlon event, an IM 2013 which I finished at 13:30 - quite comfortable, conservative pacing. I have done around 15 marathons since 2002, about four the last year with a recent PB (3:39). For my August IM, I'm think that sub 12 is a togh but realistic goal. If I were to add that other IM 5 weeks before that, I wouldn't really race it, probably aim for a finishing time around 13,5-14 hours. Since October, I've averaged slightly less than 30 hours/month. I expect to do about 50 hours in May-June. I realise that even a conservative IM in July would require a 2-week taper and some recovery. On the other hand the IM itself would count for something in building fitness What do you think: could I do both without completely ruining the second IM, which is the one where I'd like to race? Grateful for any kind of input, |
| 2016-05-15 1:10 PM in reply to: #5181849 |
Extreme Veteran 890    Sterling | Subject: RE: Back-to-back Ironman within 5 weeks I don't see a problem. If you've trained the mileage decent enough and recover ok from big training days why not? People run Ultra marathons (100 milers) with less recovery than that all the time. Treat the first one as a training day. We overthink things all the time. Have fun and be glad you have the time to be able to do that! |
| 2016-05-15 1:38 PM in reply to: Ciczack |
Master 2855 Kailua, Hawaii | Subject: RE: Back-to-back Ironman within 5 weeks how did you feel after your IM in 2013, a month out.? Did you recover quickly or did it linger ? Also I wouldn't agree that the IM itself would build your fitness. Lots of folks do back to back IMs but it totally depends on your recovery rate and mental focus on doing a second one that soon after. |
| 2016-05-15 2:29 PM in reply to: #5181854 |
| 5 | Subject: RE: Back-to-back Ironman within 5 weeks Metafizx: I think I recovered OK 2013. Managed a marathon PB about 2,5 on the IM. Eased into training the first month without major problems as I recall. Obviously, I'd need to get into some decent training qucier it's time. |
| 2016-05-15 8:47 PM in reply to: 0 |
| 108 | Subject: RE: Back-to-back Ironman within 5 weeks I did two within 4 week last summer, met a couple from Canada that was doing the 4th in 4 week, met a German couple that was doing 2 within 3 weeks, and a third couple that was 2 in 2. All the couples were over 45. This was my observation. the men fared worse than the women. ie the Canadian couple, he looked like hell before even starting #4, she looked healthy. he had DNF'ed #2 because of the heat. the German couple, the first race he did quite a bit better than her on the bike, but race #2, he was significantly slower on the bike than #1 such that his wife was wondering if he had dnf'ed on the bike. he did finish the bike, but the toll of #1 had slowed him significantly. Couple #3, they both did well on #2. Why did the men in 2 of the 3 couples fare worse than the women in subsequent races? Unless women have some make-up that allows them to do well when doing endurance events close together (which I doubt is the story), it seems to me that men don't actually know how to not kill it even if they say they will hold back. You can do both no problem. If you want your best time to be IM #2, then you really, truly, honestly, really, really need to not push at all. If you can't do it, then make IM #1 your A race. Edited by Dutchcrush 2016-05-15 8:47 PM |
| 2016-05-16 1:18 AM in reply to: Ciczack |
Master 2855 Kailua, Hawaii | Subject: RE: Back-to-back Ironman within 5 weeks I think if you prepare yourself mentally and set out a good schedule, you can accomplish this. I did a IM and 2 weeks after did XTERRA Worlds, and was able to pull it off. I am not a fast recovery person with IM's so I was amazed at being able to do that. However, it did set me back after the second race, I was dealing with recovery issues for quite awhile, like months of recovery. So you might consider the downtime after the 2nd IM, it could be more than you think. |
| 2016-05-16 7:35 AM in reply to: Dutchcrush |
Extreme Veteran 890 Sterling | Subject: RE: Back-to-back Ironman within 5 weeks Originally posted by Dutchcrush I did two within 4 week last summer, met a couple from Canada that was doing the 4th in 4 week, met a German couple that was doing 2 within 3 weeks, and a third couple that was 2 in 2. All the couples were over 45. This was my observation. the men fared worse than the women. ie the Canadian couple, he looked like hell before even starting #4, she looked healthy. he had DNF'ed #2 because of the heat. the German couple, the first race he did quite a bit better than her on the bike, but race #2, he was significantly slower on the bike than #1 such that his wife was wondering if he had dnf'ed on the bike. he did finish the bike, but the toll of #1 had slowed him significantly. Couple #3, they both did well on #2. Why did the men in 2 of the 3 couples fare worse than the women in subsequent races? Unless women have some make-up that allows them to do well when doing endurance events close together (which I doubt is the story), it seems to me that men don't actually know how to not kill it even if they say they will hold back. You can do both no problem. If you want your best time to be IM #2, then you really, truly, honestly, really, really need to not push at all. If you can't do it, then make IM #1 your A race.
Well, for all intensive purposes here's a little science behind that possibility. Women store more fat than men. It's in their genes to be able to do that (child bearing, etc.) In any type of long endurance event, they have the greater ease of using fat as their main fuel, which is what we all try and train our bodies to use throughout training. I mean with only 3 examples there it's obviously a crap shoot to decide what really went wrong, but a lot of "educated" people state in the long run, women will be able to go longer than men.(obviously in races/etc....hehehe) no pun intended....lol!
It's just a matter of time |
| 2016-05-16 9:10 AM in reply to: Ciczack |
Member 1083 | Subject: RE: Back-to-back Ironman within 5 weeks There are people who do Iron distance events week after week. Not a ton of people to be sure but it is done. There are even multi day iron events where you do an Iron distance triathlon daily for several days. There was or is a triple deca ironman for 30 consecutive days. I read an article about it. It was really fascinating actually. I think the overall change is that you have to be well enough trained to be able to go the distance. And you aren't going to race both but just complete them happily. It is probably possible to race one and then just do the other. Staying mentally focused I think is actually a bigger challenge than the physical challenge. |
| 2016-05-16 10:24 AM in reply to: Ciczack |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: Back-to-back Ironman within 5 weeks Given the information you provided, I'd estimate there is almost zero chance that the you wouldn't hurt your chances at a good IM race in the second (whether you would 'ruin' them is harder to gauge). The first one would almost certainly not act as a fitness builder once you include a taper and recovery for that one. There are people who can do this easily, but they are not the majority. I'd say it was simply stupid. But it's not like an IM isn't stupid to begin with and we all do stupid things from time-to-time. But if your goal is to really do well in the August IM, then skip the other one. |
| 2016-05-17 3:34 PM in reply to: Ciczack |
| 5 | Subject: RE: Back-to-back Ironman within 5 weeks A lot of great input, appreciate it. I'm not totally discouraged from what's being said and I can live with taking a half-hour off the A-race goal time if it comes to that. If I'd do both and stick with the 2nd being the A-race, how would you approach tapering-recovery-(building)-tapering? I'm thinking that I might get away with a short taper for race 1, since it'll be a slow race anyway. Keep up tough training until two weeks before the race provided I don't do any super-long workouts two weeks out. A VERY easy first recovery week. Then pushing it a bit more weeks 2-3 if I feel OK (short distance/race intensity focus) and finally two very easy weeks taper before the A-race. Focus on the bike between the races to minimize injury risk. After my first IM I felt quite good in terms of muscle soreness. I guess general fatigue is the main concern coming into race 2. |
| 2016-05-17 3:54 PM in reply to: Ciczack |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: Back-to-back Ironman within 5 weeks You might be able to hit your goal time or come within a half hour. Or you might be hours off. There is no way to know in advance. What I do know is that you will almost certainly hurt your chances at having your best day in the second race. If you decide to give it a go, regardless, I would suggest just easing back on the volume over the 2 weeks prior to the first race. After the race, get moving again as soon as you are able. Start with swimming and biking ASAP, but even a short, easy run in a day or two if you can manage. All easy and nothing terribly long for a couple weeks. Then hope you can do a couple weeks with some moderately longer stuff again with a more moderate taper (since you won't be coming off as high a load to begin with) into the second race. |
| 2016-05-17 10:37 PM in reply to: metafizx |
Coach 9167 Stairway to Seven | Subject: RE: Back-to-back Ironman within 5 weeks Originally posted by metafizx I think if you prepare yourself mentally and set out a good schedule, you can accomplish this. I did a IM and 2 weeks after did XTERRA Worlds, and was able to pull it off. I am not a fast recovery person with IM's so I was amazed at being able to do that. However, it did set me back after the second race, I was dealing with recovery issues for quite awhile, like months of recovery. So you might consider the downtime after the 2nd IM, it could be more than you think. Right, i think the bigger issue is going to be recovery after the 2nd oen. You may need 2-3 months off, which may be in your plan anyway. But I also agree with others, then 1st IM won't build the kind of fitness you want, it will tear you down. If the 2nd one is your A race you'd be better off doing a 1/2 IM 3-5 weeks prior and really racing it hard. |
| 2016-05-24 10:03 AM in reply to: Ciczack |
| 5 | Subject: RE: Back-to-back Ironman within 5 weeks I'm fine with ending the season after race 2 - although the original plan was to do a marathon some 10 weeks after the A race. I suppose I have to decide which challenge has more appeal: Trying to acheive as good a finishing time I can in one IM, or trying to finish two IMs in five weeks. I'm also toying with the idea to make the first race the A race. However, the course is a bit harder and I will get five weeks less to prep. On the other hand, I won't ruin part of the preparationstossing in an IM before the A race. Decisions, decision... With some luck, the new race will get full so I don't need to decide at all... |
| 2016-05-24 12:48 PM in reply to: Ciczack |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: Back-to-back Ironman within 5 weeks Originally posted by Ciczack I'm fine with ending the season after race 2 - although the original plan was to do a marathon some 10 weeks after the A race. I suppose I have to decide which challenge has more appeal: Trying to acheive as good a finishing time I can in one IM, or trying to finish two IMs in five weeks. I'm also toying with the idea to make the first race the A race. However, the course is a bit harder and I will get five weeks less to prep. On the other hand, I won't ruin part of the preparationstossing in an IM before the A race. Decisions, decision... With some luck, the new race will get full so I don't need to decide at all... There is zero way to make the second IM a 'true' A race for you, as long as you remain intent on doing the first. And if you really race the first (making it your A race), the second one could end up brutal (again, no way to know for sure in advance, but you are certainly not stacking the odds in your favor). I suggest you decide to either see how fast you can go in one IM and do only one, or decide to try to get through 2 inside of 2 months and don't focus much on your time goals. Don't attempt to try for both--at least this time through. Or, if you do, at least go into it recognizing how low the probability of success will be so you don't get overly frustrated/disappointed if things don't go well. And hold off on your marathon plans until you are a few weeks on the other side of your last IM race, as well. Even after only 1 IM, it can be challenging to coming back for a marathon in relatively short order. |
| 2016-06-02 7:33 AM in reply to: Ciczack |
| 5 | Subject: RE: Back-to-back Ironman within 5 weeks So, after some pondering I've decided do skip the double and instead go for a good time in the original goal race. Thank you all for your input, it definitely helped my decision-making. |
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