what do you do for knee pain?

Haven't had knee issues (knock on wood) but I do have a "over the counter" portable TENS unit (electrical stimulation/pain reduction). It's called something like an E-MP-10, and looks exactly like an MP3 player, but with electrodes instead of earphones. (There should probably be a warning on it NOT to stick the electrodes in your ears!)

It works to some extent. Seems to work best with muscle soreness and (in my case) nerve issues that seem to be left over from swelling from a previous injury that is compressing a nerve after I've been on my feet a long time. My understanding is it doesn't actually contribute to healing, but can give pain relief by blocking nerve signals to the brain. Not sure how effective that would be with knees but I have definitely heard of people getting some relief from low back pain, arthritis, etc. The ones that PT's use are probably more powerful and maybe specialized for different purposes--not sure.

Have you examined your current foods that you eat on a regular basis? Not sure if you consume diary products on a regular basis but they have been known to be a source of inflammation along with refined grains (breads and cereals, etc) and sugar. There is alot of back and forth on diet and whats good or bad for you and every person is different.

But dairy is a known inflammatory and its high in fat and cholesterol.  I personally do very little dairy, I like to have yogurt a couple times a month, other then that I stay away. I drink soy milk when I am in active training due to its protein content and almond milk in the off season or when not actively training.

Anyways each person is different but examining ones diet may shed some light (and some pounds) on a otherwise unknown source of inflammation. Google 'arthritis and diet' and maybe there might be something that helps for you.

Also might consider doing stretching exercises such as yoga, if all the connective tissues in the knees, shins, quads etc are tight this might cause some tightness of the knees in addition to inflammation that could certainly be a source of pain. I like the warrior series of poses that really work the legs and get a good stretch in the front areas of the legs.

Best wishes on your training.

 

Edited by rjcalhoun 2017-12-01 9:25 PM

Thanks, definitely food for thought.
I like the idea of strengthening surrounding muscles and I don't do enough stretching.

I started running a little over a decade ago. After a few years, I started to get knee pain. I slowly switched to swimming and phased out my running. About four years ago, I started running again because I got this crazy idea that I wanted to do a triathlon.

This time, though, I researched the sport (of running) and made changes to my form- basically went from a heel strike to a midfoot strike (I actually did it wrong for probably about a year but I think I have it down know). No more knee pain.

I recommend considering your running form as a possible cause. Good luck!

Dunno if it'll work for your issues but I had horrible knee pain when I started running again. After three miles I was limping and sitting with ice and everything. Then I got patella straps and it immediately stopped. After a few months I didn't even need the straps and no pain for years since. Really, really amazing experience.

https://www.amazon.com/Pro-Tec-Athletics-Patellar-Tendon-Strap/dp/B0...

Thank, always good to check form. Maybe I'll have someone videotape me.

I don't get what that thing does, but thanks for the tip, I'll order it.

Maybe videotaping would be the best, but here's what I did. I got some minimalist shoes (they were actually walking shoes!). I could feel the ground with them and this helped with the forefoot strike I was after. To my amazement, my times were also not bad after a short while. I slowly backed away from forefoot to a more midfoot strike after about my first year of adjusting my form and that's where I'm at now.

Basically, you're shifting the shock of the landing from your knees to your ankles with a midfoot strike (as opposed to a heel strike). The most important thing is that my knee pain is gone.

I'm sure others here can tell you much more about changing your running form. I'm a very average runner, but after some years of struggle I feel positive about my running.

Ordered a two pack of the knee patellar strap! Got my fingers crossed it will help.

Cool. I hope they work for you. (Don't hate me if they don't!). I wore them as high as I could get them, just under the kneecap so the cap was completely resting on them. It's a little uncomfortable at first. Shouldn't hurt. It just kind of feels weird since it partially immobilizes the kneecap. Please post about whether they work for you or not. I had such a good experience with these things, that I mention them every time I can, but I never get an opportunity to follow up with anybody to see if they used them. Again I can't say what'll happen to you but for me the drop in post run pain was almost immediate, maybe even noticeable after the first run..

I've been playing football (soccer) my whole life - now in my 40's. My knees were getting more and more painful after games, so I reduced playing a lot, and also stopped all kind of running on hard surfaces.

As a "I have nothing to lose" attempt, I also went to see a chiro. Best decision I made. Although they are not miracle workers and can't fix everything, they managed to do some stuff with my legs, hips and back, that enabled me to take up running again and eventually got me in to triathlon. I have done 4 IM's in the last 2 years, so it really fixed my knee issues!

WOW

Update - wore the strap on my right knee to see if I could tell the difference between knees. Right knee hurt the next day. Not blaming strap, maybe I put it on the right knee because subconsciously it's the one that hurts more.
So today, wore one on my left knee. If left knee doesn't hurt tomorrow I'll assume its all good and will wear straps on both knees. Will keep you updated if it helps.

I would work with a sport therapist to set you up on a plan. Have you been through the docs, gotten all of the tests, etc.? Once you are officially diagnosed the sports PT can help strengthen up the muscles in your legs and set you on a path to minimize your knee pain. Basic things you can do yourself...run on a treadmill (no more road running), less miles, good shoes made for your feet, lose weight/healthy lifestyle, etc. But the PT can get you specific exercises for your conditioning and make sure what you are currently doing isn't a bad idea (like using those straps might be bad idk with your specific case)

As far as diet goes, start doing a lot of research on dietary needs or go to a dietician, although I find many aren't trained well. A healthy diet isn't too hard to maintain as long as its not a diet but a complete lifestyle change and the weight should just shed off from diet alone. Humans weren't meant to carry around extra weight, our diet/lifestyle has led to that.

Edited by toomanyhobbies 2017-12-14 11:29 AM

Thanks for the ideas. Not being the happiest being home with babies I ate badly, but when I switched to a reasonably healthy diet I did drop almost 40 lbs. I'm pretty up on diets and did get to a great weight with a very low carb diet, but just eating really healthy isn't moving the scale that last 15 lbs. sigh...

Arthritis was diagnosed with x-rays, don't know if that is the way it's done or if I should ask for more tests?

Went to PT and really don't want to go back. PT is a young kid who kept asking if I could do household tasks, if I was okay turning over on the table and could I lift my leg. I felt like she really wasn't seeing me, and the exercises she gave me were very basic.
She wasn't impressed with the patella strap - said it might help if my knee was loose but mine doesn't move enough, but that it couldn't hurt if I wanted to wear it.

I've got to get back to recording my food on myfitnesspal the night before. I found if I do that and have the food prepared I stick to my plan better.
Seem to be okay building my runs very slowly, just wish there was more I could do.

Wishing everyone a fit, strong new year!

Mitzi

Is there any way you can find a PT who is more experienced in working with athletes? It doesn't matter what level of athlete you are; you are placing different demands on your body than the average sedentary person, and you need someone who understands that. I've had very good experiences with PT's who were athletes themselves--not necessarily runners, but at the very least outdoor enthusiasts who were active recreationally in sports and worked with lots of athletes.

Hard to say about arthritis diagnosis. I know from a friend who's a PT that most people of a certain age will show some signs of "wear and tear" on an x-ray or MRI that might be associated with arthritis, but only some of those will actually be having pain, stiffness, or other symptoms, or be in need of treatment. Someone whose area is sports medicine might be better qualified to advise you and recommend a sports-oriented PT. I dealt with a misdiagnosed injury myself this year that resulted in me taking almost four months off running, when it probably could have been just one month or less with early diagnosis and proper treatment--it really would not hurt to get a second opinion!

Finally, swimming and aqua-jogging is great for joints and all manner of soreness--the more you can swim, the better. Plus it is "free cardio" (without pounding) and can let you get away with lower run mileage than you otherwise could. I know people will dispute me on that, but that's been my experience since I was a kid and even now--I can maintain decent run fitness on pretty low mileage if I am putting in a lot of hard work in the pool.

Hope you can work toward a more pain-free 2018!

Edited by Hot Runner 2017-12-27 10:19 PM

Good advice, you remind me of something I should have known. My son, H.S. football player, current runner and weight-lifter, got the same treatment as I did when he went in for back pain. He went to a different PT in Boston, where she did more intensive hands-on work, and he actually got relief.

I'll ask around at my tri club.

This is what solved my knee pain problems. But I started with minimalist shoes so that I could feel the ground and land correctly, something that did not come naturally at all in the beginning. I have since ditched the minimalist shoes and will probably even try a pair Hoka's sometime soon. I have also shortened my stride but I had the most success with this when I focused on a higher cadence, which made a longer stride all but impossible (at least for someone slow like me).

Thanks. I don't think I'm a heel striker, but I don't think my heel ever gets that close to my butt so who knows?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrOgDCZ4GUo

Will have my hubby video me on his cell phone at the gym. Probably too dorky but I can't afford to care.

I've had a small miniscal tear since the early 90s (my years as a ski instructor). It wasn't bad enough nor was it painful enough at the time to require surgery. I'm sure that 25+ years later I've got some arthritis in there as well, but nothing that's sent me to the M.D.

The two things that keeps me running (as that's where my knee pain flares up--when the mileage increases) are yoga & foam rolling. Particularly, yoga that requires that I do a lot of single leg balance work that forces me to activate and work the stabilizer muscles in my knees and ankles as well as yoga stretches that focus on runner's needs (hip flexors, hamstrings, glutes, calves & shins). On the foam roller, I really pay attention to the muscle heads that tie into the knee joint (I'll also use "The Stick" or a rolling pin on these areas as needed). Those two things have been game changers for me as I'm approaching 50.

Just another thought that may be more preventative in nature.

Thanks, I'll get that foam roller out. Bought it but never used it.