General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Diagnosis, please Rss Feed  
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2018-07-11 7:37 AM


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Subject: Diagnosis, please
I just finished my first Sprint Tri, so I now have a PB!

Even in "training", I am unable to jog after the bike. I can walk 4 mph after the bike, and did so on the TRI, but I have NO legs left to jog. It's not pushing through pain, I just have nothing left. If a tiger were to attack me, I would be dead.

Yet, when I isolate my running (no bike), I can jog OK, not fast, but OK for the 2 miles this Sprint required.

Is this a case of low endurance, that I have not trained adequately, or something else?

Disappointing, to say the least.

I'm 74, recognize age is against me, but I believe I have enormous room for growth in all 3 phases of the TRI.

What can I do to fix this?


2018-07-11 7:58 AM
in reply to: nathan_strahl@yahoo.

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Subject: RE: Diagnosis, please
What kind of training are you doing ? Age factored in I am going with under trained. You could be over biking also but my guess is if you just did your first race you still need to slowly build some endurance.
2018-07-11 8:25 AM
in reply to: Goggles Pizzano


15

Subject: RE: Diagnosis, please
You are correct, my strength is in biking as I have been doing that for years.

With limitation in time (work, family), is HIIT the best (most efficient way to build endurance?
2018-07-11 8:56 AM
in reply to: nathan_strahl@yahoo.


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Subject: RE: Diagnosis, please
I am no expert on triathlon.
But, I do consider myself an expert on acquiring skills, abilities, and knowledge.
Doesn't mean I'm any good at that, but as a sometime teacher...I 'study' this.

So, being that any physical activity in some sense is just like learning to play piano...or anything else.
1. You're not very good at it when you first start.
2. Other related skills (say...another instrument....or in your case...cycling) can certainly be helpful. They can also hinder if you think they're "the same thing"
3. You practice some....and you get better.
4. As you're practicing, you start to "think" much more and more about it.
5. As you're thinking about it, you find the things you don't do so good...and you focus on those. Just because you can get to the end of a song, doesn't mean you played it properly. No point in expending excessive time on the things you do right, unless you expend effort on the things you do wrong.

Also....adults are terrible at doing all these things. We complain about kids who have no sense of delayed gratification. You know, standing in line at the checkout "Mommy, I want this candy/toy/etc. NOW". But the reality is, they have tons of it, because we enforce it on them. No, you can't drive until you're 16. Voting 18. Drinking 21. We make them go to bed at 9:00 and don't let them have a snack before dinner. As an adult, if we want to go out to McDonald's for dinner...we go. If we want to stay up and watch TV, we do.

We're terrible at breaking things down and working the sum of the parts.

That being said, it might be harder to find the sum of your parts when you're trying to do put two things together. But, that's a "part" of triathlon that we all have to learn and figure out.

Definitely, try dialing back on the bike.
Definitely practice cycling and then straight into running. Even if it's just a half mile or a quarter after cycling. It took me two years to start to learn to deal with the legs that feel like they're both made of lead and yet, somehow helium filled. After five years, I still have not found a way to slow down to my regular pace for the first half mile in a race. I virtually set a half mile PR in the first half mile of every race I do. I'm getting better.

My 17 year old did his first race with me on Sunday. He didn't "train" for it. He's in decent shape as a lacrosse player and the fact that he's 17. The biggest thing for him was...he had little sense of "how far" he had left at various stages and therefore had no idea how to 'pace' himself in any part of it. At times he felt he laid off too much. Other times he went too hard.

Keep it up, and soon...you'll be one of those guys blowing by me on the run (even at a jog!) and when I look at the age on their calf as they blow by...I just shake my head in shame.
2018-07-11 9:44 AM
in reply to: jhaack39

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Subject: RE: Diagnosis, please
Originally posted by jhaack39

I am no expert on triathlon.
But, I do consider myself an expert on acquiring skills, abilities, and knowledge.
Doesn't mean I'm any good at that, but as a sometime teacher...I 'study' this.

So, being that any physical activity in some sense is just like learning to play piano...or anything else.
1. You're not very good at it when you first start.
2. Other related skills (say...another instrument....or in your case...cycling) can certainly be helpful. They can also hinder if you think they're "the same thing"
3. You practice some....and you get better.
4. As you're practicing, you start to "think" much more and more about it.
5. As you're thinking about it, you find the things you don't do so good...and you focus on those. Just because you can get to the end of a song, doesn't mean you played it properly. No point in expending excessive time on the things you do right, unless you expend effort on the things you do wrong.

Also....adults are terrible at doing all these things. We complain about kids who have no sense of delayed gratification. You know, standing in line at the checkout "Mommy, I want this candy/toy/etc. NOW". But the reality is, they have tons of it, because we enforce it on them. No, you can't drive until you're 16. Voting 18. Drinking 21. We make them go to bed at 9:00 and don't let them have a snack before dinner. As an adult, if we want to go out to McDonald's for dinner...we go. If we want to stay up and watch TV, we do.

We're terrible at breaking things down and working the sum of the parts.

That being said, it might be harder to find the sum of your parts when you're trying to do put two things together. But, that's a "part" of triathlon that we all have to learn and figure out.

Definitely, try dialing back on the bike.
Definitely practice cycling and then straight into running. Even if it's just a half mile or a quarter after cycling. It took me two years to start to learn to deal with the legs that feel like they're both made of lead and yet, somehow helium filled. After five years, I still have not found a way to slow down to my regular pace for the first half mile in a race. I virtually set a half mile PR in the first half mile of every race I do. I'm getting better.

My 17 year old did his first race with me on Sunday. He didn't "train" for it. He's in decent shape as a lacrosse player and the fact that he's 17. The biggest thing for him was...he had little sense of "how far" he had left at various stages and therefore had no idea how to 'pace' himself in any part of it. At times he felt he laid off too much. Other times he went too hard.

Keep it up, and soon...you'll be one of those guys blowing by me on the run (even at a jog!) and when I look at the age on their calf as they blow by...I just shake my head in shame.



Very interesting post..thanks for that!
2018-07-11 2:23 PM
in reply to: nathan_strahl@yahoo.

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Subject: RE: Diagnosis, please
Originally posted by nathan_strahl@yahoo.You are correct, my strength is in biking as I have been doing that for years. With limitation in time (work, family), is HIIT the best (most efficient way to build endurance?
Best ? I don’t know if I could answer that. Personally I would want to have a base before I started hard interval training.


2018-07-11 3:57 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Diagnosis, please
1. Dial back on the bike intensity, both in training (for bike/run workouts) and in the race! If you can't run at all off the bike, clearly you are pushing the bike too hard. This is especially tempting if the bike happens to be your strength.

2. As others have said, regularly practice running "off the bike" in training, even if it's only 5, 10 or 15 minutes. That will help you get used to the feeling of transitioning from biking to running rhythm. It's difficult for everyone, regardless of age, experience, and fitness. Doing bike/run workouts (often called "bricks" since your legs tend to feel like that!) once or twice a week definitely helps, but only up to a point. I can't honestly think of a triathlon where I've ever felt really good when I first started running, and several where I hurt/cramped so badly off the bike that I wasn't sure I could even finish (including one race that ended up being my fastest ever HIM in 5:16, and another where I broke my best time by 20 minutes). I have even had a couple of races where I had to walk most/all of transition. Neither ended up being a total disaster--in both cases once I got moving I was able to pull off a solid run for my fitness at the time. My guess is that both involved overdoing the bike leg a bit.

3. Manage expectations. Know that in a race, the first few minutes, sometimes even the first few miles, are probably going to feel like sh.... Don't try to push a particular pace, just focus on working out the kinks from the bike and getting your steps and breathing into a good rhythm. Your stride will probably be shorter than normal for a while--that's okay, Focus on good turnover and staying relaxed. If you really are feeling so wobbly you can't safely run, walk through transition and then gradually try to start running after 3-5 minutes when your legs feel a bit better.


Edited by Hot Runner 2018-07-11 3:59 PM
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