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2007-02-13 10:16 AM

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Subject: Lifetime Fitness vs LA Fitness
Ok...my opinion will totally be left out of this b/c i've made up my mind. But i'd be interested to see everyones thoughts regarding tactics being used at LTF and correct any misunderstandings regarding it.

I've heard from several folks (no names mentioned) that LifeTime Fitness places itself based on income levels. In fact it was stated "they go where the money is"...

Here's the facts:
Winward Parkway is a very wealthy area, however the average household income is only $116k (http://www.homepages.com/localpages/Georgia/Alpharetta.htm)

Woodstock Georgia is not quite as affluent with an average hosehold income of $83k (http://www.homepages.com/localpages/Georgia/Woodstock.htm)

The Roswell West LA Fitness (on the edge of Woodstock/Roswell) is packed solid daily. There are times during the week you can not find a parking spot anywhere.

I have been to the Windward Parkway LA Fitness at different times of the day (Before LTF moved in the area) and it has never come close to the same congestion.

The difference in a family membership monthly rates is $50.00 between LAF and LTF as I understand it.

Question: Assuming LTF is focusing on "following the money", is this the right approach. OR, does MONEY = MARKET?





2007-02-13 11:33 AM
in reply to: #689154

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Subject: RE: Lifetime Fitness vs LA Fitness
MORE INFO:
LA Fitness Rates as of 2/13/07
Initiation Fee: 144.98
Individual monthly rate 34.99/person

Lifetime Fitness Rates as of 2/13/07
Initiation Fee: 191.40
Individual monthly rate: 59.95/person

CORPORATE INFO:
LA Fitness are mostly franchised and provide no information based on financials

Lifetime Fitness is public, plenty of 411 available.
http://library.corporate-ir.net/library/13/136/136737/items/189296/...
67% of revenue are monthly dues
5% are initiation fees
25% are in Center Service

In Center Services include Coffee, Sports Drinks, TEAM concepts, etc (is what the rep on phone stated)

Delta between LTF and LAF:
Initiation Fee: <$50.00
monthly rates: <$25.00


Edited by steventrihard 2007-02-13 11:38 AM
2007-02-13 4:13 PM
in reply to: #689154

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Subject: RE: Lifetime Fitness vs LA Fitness
So, basically Lifetime would rather try to milk people in the affluent areas rather than go to where more people live? Am I understanding this right? Obviously, something isn't working if they can't meet their enrollment goals. Money-wise, that's quite a difference between the two and it seems most people will go where it's more affordable and convenient.
2007-02-13 6:41 PM
in reply to: #689262

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Subject: RE: Lifetime Fitness vs LA Fitness

steventrihard - 2007-02-13 12:33 PM MORE INFO: LA Fitness Rates as of 2/13/07 Initiation Fee: 144.98 Individual monthly rate 34.99/person Lifetime Fitness Rates as of 2/13/07 Initiation Fee: 191.40 Individual monthly rate: 59.95/person CORPORATE INFO: LA Fitness are mostly franchised and provide no information based on financials Lifetime Fitness is public, plenty of 411 available. http://library.corporate-ir.net/library/13/136/136737/items/189296/... 67% of revenue are monthly dues 5% are initiation fees 25% are in Center Service In Center Services include Coffee, Sports Drinks, TEAM concepts, etc (is what the rep on phone stated) Delta between LTF and LAF: Initiation Fee: <$50.00 monthly rates: <$25.00

What's the delta re: family membership?  Our family has a Y m'ship and we pay ~74/month (family of 4 and not taking into account discount I get as cycling instructor); I believe LTF family m'ship is ~129.  I'm guessing LAF/LTF family m'ship delta is similar and perhaps smaller.

As our Y is literally 1/2 mile from LTF, A LOT of people made the jump.  From what I've heard, LAF on Windward has lost a lot of people to LTF as well.  Most everybody I speak to, especially my tri buds, say they like it very much.  At the same time, and this coming from neighbors, my tri buds and other former Y members with whom I've spoken, LTF definitely takes an aggressive approach w/regards to marketing additional services, etc. - undoubtedly due to the fact that LTF is a public company and needs to keep shareholders happy.

2007-02-14 7:53 AM
in reply to: #689154

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Subject: RE: Lifetime Fitness vs LA Fitness
Ok..my communication skills obviously suck. just to review the purpose of the thread:

Question: Assuming the LTF approach is to "go where the money is", does that mean thats where the market is. Other comments offline went something like "they derive revenue from more places that just enrollment feels and membership dues". Yes, however over 70 % is derived from that, and the others "in service" facilities being Cafe, studio, spa treatment, etc...(does that mean only affluent areas engage in cafes, studios, and spa treatments???).

Point being its assumed they "go where the money is" to only recieve a $20.00 monthly premium on top of LAF. My guess is they didnt research the market enough, and felt where the money is = the lowest risk exposure. I would almost guarantee they'd shut down LA Fitness in the Sandy Plains area if they opened one remotely close to LAF. It is more than worth the 20.00 a month to have all the amenities that the one off Winward has. (and believe it or not us "poor" people in Woodstock CAN indeed afford the additional 20.00 a month).

This thread is not to knock LTF, rather to point out theres a HUGE fitness market outside of the so-called "affluent" areas of Atlanta. Once they dig deeper, my guess is thats exatly what they will determine (even without the "parking lot" test)

2007-02-14 8:44 AM
in reply to: #690069

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Subject: RE: Lifetime Fitness vs LA Fitness

steventrihard - 2007-02-14 8:53 AM Ok..my communication skills obviously suck. just to review the purpose of the thread: Question: Assuming the LTF approach is to "go where the money is", does that mean thats where the market is. Other comments offline went something like "they derive revenue from more places that just enrollment feels and membership dues". Yes, however over 70 % is derived from that, and the others "in service" facilities being Cafe, studio, spa treatment, etc...(does that mean only affluent areas engage in cafes, studios, and spa treatments???). Point being its assumed they "go where the money is" to only recieve a $20.00 monthly premium on top of LAF. My guess is they didnt research the market enough, and felt where the money is = the lowest risk exposure. I would almost guarantee they'd shut down LA Fitness in the Sandy Plains area if they opened one remotely close to LAF. It is more than worth the 20.00 a month to have all the amenities that the one off Winward has. (and believe it or not us "poor" people in Woodstock CAN indeed afford the additional 20.00 a month). This thread is not to knock LTF, rather to point out theres a HUGE fitness market outside of the so-called "affluent" areas of Atlanta. Once they dig deeper, my guess is thats exatly what they will determine (even without the "parking lot" test)

Your communications skills don't suck - perhaps those of us who responded did so with bias one way or another and therefore did not "read" your post as intended.  With this in mind and taking into account your post above, my understanding is LTF goes where there's an established market (ala Lowe's vs Home Depot) and attempts to offer a better overall product for a minimal premium above what people are paying elsewhere.

This is smart business and if done correctly mitigates barriers to entry that otherwise might exist in trying to open new markets.

And to clarify, I'm really not biased for/against LTF, in fact if I weren't tied to the Y via a particular board membership as well as paying outrageously low monthly dues for our family of 4 (due to status as staff via cycle instructor), our family would probably make the jump too.  LTF is very family oriented and many of our friends as well as all of my non-BT tri friends are over there.

 



Edited by LHablas 2007-02-14 9:06 AM


2007-02-14 8:58 AM
in reply to: #689154

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Subject: RE: Lifetime Fitness vs LA Fitness
steventrihard,
I'm having trouble trying to understand what your question is. But here is my take to what I think you are asking.

McDonalds, as an example, figures out the best location based on research. I was once told McDonalds isn't in the business of selling burgers, they are in the real estate business (there is some truth to that).

I assume LTF's research told that that a facility in Alpharetta would do well. Opening up a business cost a lot of money. I'm sure LTF would like to have a facilty on every street corner but they have to make decisions and build according to that strategic plan. Given that they are a public company, they have to carry those costs themselves. LAF, as a franchise type business, does not have to carry the buildout costs themselves, rather, the individual owner does. That different model allows LAF to grow initially at a much faster rate as the buildout costs are distributed. On the other hand, building out quickly may get LAF into trouble. For example, if the LAF Windword location can't maintain a large enough membership base with the Y and LTF close by, they may close up shop.

FWIW, I go to LAF simply becuase they are less than 3 miles from my house (John's Creek). It is extremly crowded (I call it Bejing Fitness due to the number of asians there. My wife who is asian gets a kick out of that). If a LTF fitness opened as close I might be tempted to switch. The costs don't bother me but access to the extra stuff would be nice (bigger pool, masters swim class, rock climbing - all stuff I might be interested in doing).
2007-02-14 9:27 AM
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Subject: RE: Lifetime Fitness vs LA Fitness
Well stated!!! and the last few lines totally exemplifies my point!! (hilarious reference by the way...i can relate)
2007-02-14 1:01 PM
in reply to: #690155

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Subject: RE: Lifetime Fitness vs LA Fitness

jonathan22 - 2007-02-14 9:58 AM ... FWIW, I go to LAF simply becuase they are less than 3 miles from my house (John's Creek). It is extremly crowded (I call it Bejing Fitness due to the number of asians there. My wife who is asian gets a kick out of that). If a LTF fitness opened as close I might be tempted to switch. The costs don't bother me but access to the extra stuff would be nice (bigger pool, masters swim class, rock climbing - all stuff I might be interested in doing).

I go to the same LA Fitness and trying to find a swimming lane at times can be impossible ... so I know what you mean.

There is a Masters swim at Dynamo (corner of Abbotts Bridge and Jones Bridge) but I believe it starts in the middle of the night (~5:15 am?).

As to the difference between LAF and LT?  To me it seems like Lifetime is a bit nicee and a place to hang out.  LA Fitness is more like a place to go workout.

That said, I don't see why LAF doesn't have a similar approach in offering specialized classes such a Masters swim, HR base spin class or metabolic testing as LT ...

2007-02-14 2:34 PM
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Subject: RE: Lifetime Fitness vs LA Fitness
Supply vs Demand as well as amenities vs low key. Winward makes sense, because to borrow a song.. "if they can make it there.. they can make it anywhere" in Atlanta. Buckhead would not be a good test because they already know there is a market there. Based on the winward opening, I believe that's indicitive of a 'test' run as opposed to market based research suggesting that it was the best place to open.
Now for my opinion on the gyms.. If LTF opened up near me, I would jump ship immediately. For the same reasons I jumped to LAF from Bally's. It's just better. The hours are better (obviously), the pools are better, the programs are better etc..
Pretty much, Bally's is a joke now, but they have their market.. i'm just not in it.
2007-02-14 2:56 PM
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Subject: RE: Lifetime Fitness vs LA Fitness
brian, pm sent


2007-02-14 3:07 PM
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Subject: RE: Lifetime Fitness vs LA Fitness
brian - 2007-02-14 1:01 PM
There is a Masters swim at Dynamo (corner of Abbotts Bridge and Jones Bridge) but I believe it starts in the middle of the night (~5:15 am?).


Not to thread jack,
But yes, Dynamo is right outside my neighborhood (Hillbrooke). My kids took swim lessons there. When I get off my current project and am able to be in town a little bit more, I''m going to go there when I can.

As it is, I could probably go there on Mondays and I may just do that.
2007-02-14 3:50 PM
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Subject: RE: Lifetime Fitness vs LA Fitness
from an economics standpoint, pricing is primarily a marketing decision. Price is simply one way to represent value, and obviously not the only way. We can assume that Lifetime probably prices their product with a profitability target, although that target may require time or membership parameters. So in determining facility location, they probably select markets that will respond best to their total consumer offering: this is likely a combination of price, location, service, etc.

From my experience, Lifetime's services and facilities are superior to that of LA Fitness' but their facility is simply too far away to be convenient to me. Ergo, the pricing is irrelevant in my value decision, even though I could afford to join.
2007-02-17 9:48 PM
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Subject: RE: Lifetime Fitness vs LA Fitness
jonathan22 - 2007-02-14 4:07 PM

brian - 2007-02-14 1:01 PM
There is a Masters swim at Dynamo (corner of Abbotts Bridge and Jones Bridge) but I believe it starts in the middle of the night (~5:15 am?).


Not to thread jack,
But yes, Dynamo is right outside my neighborhood (Hillbrooke). My kids took swim lessons there. When I get off my current project and am able to be in town a little bit more, I''m going to go there when I can.

As it is, I could probably go there on Mondays and I may just do that.


Dynamo also holds classes a little bit later (7am?) at an outdoor pool off winward during the summer. I may join these this summer if my shedule allows.
2007-02-19 7:03 PM
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Subject: RE: Lifetime Fitness vs LA Fitness
ok...i must retract all horrible things I said.

Spoke with a rep from LTF...heres some facts:

* Currently building (yes building) a facility in Lawrenceville
* Next two locations will be (drum roll please) Johns Creek and Woodstock (yes..thats a grin on my face)
* Then there will be a Roswell/Sandy Springs location

Now aint that some stuff!!!!

2009-10-28 9:17 AM
in reply to: #689154


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Subject: RE: Lifetime Fitness vs LA Fitness

My opionion is that, you can't really compare mercedez Benz against Hyundai and get them same package that you expect. I have been going the gym for 15 years and joined to mostly all the gym around Atlanta area because I have moved to a different places around. To me, whatever is close by and convenient and descent where I can do my workout, that's where I actually join. It's not about the money, its where you are happy and get the service you want and conviently in you daily lives. So, really now way to compare LA fitness and Lifetime fitness. Lifetime may charge more because of amenities and all that.  But, you get what you pay for. It's all depends on individual.



Edited by agneso 2009-10-28 9:22 AM


2009-10-28 1:21 PM
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Subject: RE: Lifetime Fitness vs LA Fitness
Do both of those membership costs allow use of any club?  There were no LAF or LT when I lived in CO so I joined Bally's with the nationwide program. (I renewed at a rate of $ 10 per month).  I'm fortunate that the ONLY Bally's facilty on the south side is right down the road from work and it is "dated" but certainly not worth joining another gym at some of the rates mentioned in previous comments. 

People mak comments on "wealthy areas" but what is the makeup of the area "old money" vs "startup".   What is the median age of the community?  Doesn't take a lot of "memberships" to start dwindling the spending abilities of families. 
2009-10-28 1:52 PM
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Subject: RE: Lifetime Fitness vs LA Fitness
Is it here that I opine that LA Fitness is a crime ridden ghetto?

Seriously, we joined LA Fitness because of the amenities that were offered above and beyond Golds Gym.  We left LA Fitness Johns Creek for Lifetime Fitness because of a crime/locker theft problem LA Fitness had (has? ... I have heard of locker thefts recently).

When we switched we saw that Lifetime Fitness has much, much better amenities: better equipment, group fitness instruction better, larger facilities, better childcare, locker rooms, steam room, larger pools, outdoor pool, outdoor lap lanes, towel service, no/low/infrequent crime, better trained employees ... and the list goes on.

Does LTF have their quirks and issues they need to work on? Yes ... but the difference is that they do work on them as their goal is to provide value for the extra $20.00 per month in membership fees.
2009-10-28 3:47 PM
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Subject: RE: Lifetime Fitness vs LA Fitness
nm


Edited by autigers_1998 2009-10-28 3:48 PM
2009-10-28 3:56 PM
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Subject: RE: Life Time Fitness vs LA Fitness

Hmmm... a 2.5 y.o. thread resurrection?!

Welcome to BT, Agnes.  It's a great resource and community.  Interesting first post .

I tend to agree with Agnes that you join for convenience.  I also agree that comparing Life Time to LA Fitness or Gold's is comparing apples to oranges.  Each has a totally different approach, corporate philosophy, club environment, member retention plan and level of customer care. 

Is one better than the other?  As someone who has been employed by various gyms, I can say that from an industry standard point of view, yes, one is far superior.  However, on the member side, I would say that mileage may vary... and it may vary greatly.

That said, if you're just looking for a pool and a treadmill, why on earth would you pay more to have towel service, a rock wall, and other amenities you won't use?  Do you mind having to wait a little while for a piece of cardio equipment or having the length of your cardio workout limited to 20-30 minutes to reduce wait time for others?  Is "one stop shop" important to you in a fitness facility?  If not, doesn't seem like Life Time is a good fit. 

I personally am not sure that I would join Life Time if I didn't participate in group fitness classes (cycle, core conditioning, hot yoga, strike and functional integrated training) or if I didn't have kids.  The kids' programming is terrific and, IMHO, is way underused by most members. 

As I've stated many times before, I believe that the only way to determine what gym is right for you is to actually try it out for a week, to go at the times you anticipate going, to see how crowded it is, really check out the cleanliness of the locker rooms, the traffic patterns going to and from the club... to take stock of what it is you want out of a gym and then join the one that is most closely aligned with your needs. 

When I visit other fitness facilities I have a list of safety/security questions I ask/observations I make that I believe are very telling.  I'd be happy to share them if anyone is in the market for a new gym and interested.  Just shoot me a PM.

To me, Life Time offers an "experience" (run/cycle/swim clubs, DJ by the pool, overnight rock wall, parents night out, Daddy/Daughter dance, Spooktacular, endurance rides, group fitness jams with DJs, etc.) and amenities that fit into my family's way of life, whereas other gyms simply offer a place to work out.  Nothing wrong with either one, it's just different.  Apples to oranges.

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