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 2008-11-18 4:06 AM in reply to: #1813722 |
 Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009lkagop - 2008-11-17 10:49 PM Thank you so much again for doing this, Jorge. I, like so many others, really appreciate your valuable time. I'm really, really new to all of this, and I just want to be absolutely clear that I'm proceeding correctly. I'm really sorry if these questions are stupid, but could I trouble you to let me know if I've got this right? I'm in the HRM/RPE group. So, I go to your blog and scroll down to the "Cycling Plan Week 1 (HRM & RPE)" and find this chart. I then see what I need to do for my first session or Q1. The first thing I need to do for my first session is a warm up (WU), specifically WU #1. So, I then find your WU chart for HRM/RPEs to see what the WU #1 looks like. WU #1 will be 10' @68-73% HR + 5' as 30" @ 97-103%HR/30" 68-73HR. So, I will spend my first 10 minutes getting and keeping my HR between 68-73%. Then I spend the next 5 minutes and 30 seconds getting and keeping my HR between 97-103%. Then I spend 30 seconds between 68-73%. So, then I check out what the MS involves. I spend my first 30 seconds getting and keeping my HR between 95-100%. I take a rest for 30 seconds and repeat this 9 times. I would then spend my next 10 minutes getting and keeping my HR between 78-83%. I then do my cool down which consists of 5 minutes of getting and keeping my HR between 68-73%, with an RPE of 2-3. So, I will have spent 16 minutes in WU, 20 minutes in MS and 5 minutes in CD with a total of 41 minutes. Am I on the right track? Thank you soooo very much! - Lora Lora, I am with you is this correct? I tried to read it but could not get it!! Thank you for this post! |
| 2008-11-18 7:42 AM in reply to: #1813945 |
Extreme Veteran  563   Pekin, IL | Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009 ziggyrottie - 2008-11-18 4:06 AM lkagop - 2008-11-17 10:49 PM Thank you so much again for doing this, Jorge. I, like so many others, really appreciate your valuable time. I'm really, really new to all of this, and I just want to be absolutely clear that I'm proceeding correctly. I'm really sorry if these questions are stupid, but could I trouble you to let me know if I've got this right? I'm in the HRM/RPE group. So, I go to your blog and scroll down to the "Cycling Plan Week 1 (HRM & RPE)" and find this chart. I then see what I need to do for my first session or Q1. The first thing I need to do for my first session is a warm up (WU), specifically WU #1. So, I then find your WU chart for HRM/RPEs to see what the WU #1 looks like. WU #1 will be 10' @68-73% HR + 5' as 30" @ 97-103%HR/30" 68-73HR. So, I will spend my first 10 minutes getting and keeping my HR between 68-73%. Then I spend the next 5 minutes and 30 seconds getting and keeping my HR between 97-103%. Then I spend 30 seconds between 68-73%. First 10' HR 68-73%. Then for the next five minutes do 5 intervals of 30 seconds 97%-103% followed by 30 seconds of 68-73%. (15minutes total) So, then I check out what the MS involves. I spend my first 30 seconds getting and keeping my HR between 95-100%. I take a rest for 30 seconds and repeat this 9 times. I would then spend my next 10 minutes getting and keeping my HR between 78-83%. Correct (MS=20 minutes/35 minutes total) I then do my cool down which consists of 5 minutes of getting and keeping my HR between 68-73%, with an RPE of 2-3. Correct (CD=5 minutes/40 minutes total) So, I will have spent 16 minutes in WU, 20 minutes in MS and 5 minutes in CD with a total of 41 minutes. Am I on the right track? Thank you soooo very much! - Lora Lora, I am with you is this correct? I tried to read it but could not get it!! Thank you for this post! The above changes are how I read it. |
| 2008-11-18 8:01 AM in reply to: #1813722 |
Coach 10487  Boston, MA | Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009 lkagop - 2008-11-17 9:49 PM Lora and all, if you go to my blog http://jorgepbmcoaching.blogspot.com/ and go to the Notes and how to read sessions you then will see the link below that explains it for HR. http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_AxAesOeS5Wo/SRpKLH06Q9I/AAAAAAAAAEg/t3bCwYO5gfA/s1600-h/How+to+read+HR+session.gif Thank you so much again for doing this, Jorge. I, like so many others, really appreciate your valuable time. I'm really, really new to all of this, and I just want to be absolutely clear that I'm proceeding correctly. I'm really sorry if these questions are stupid, but could I trouble you to let me know if I've got this right? I'm in the HRM/RPE group. So, I go to your blog and scroll down to the "Cycling Plan Week 1 (HRM & RPE)" and find this chart. I then see what I need to do for my first session or Q1. The first thing I need to do for my first session is a warm up (WU), specifically WU #1. So, I then find your WU chart for HRM/RPEs to see what the WU #1 looks like. WU #1 will be 10' @68-73% HR + 5' as 30" @ 97-103%HR/30" 68-73HR. So, I will spend my first 10 minutes getting and keeping my HR between 68-73%. Then I spend the next 5 minutes and 30 seconds getting and keeping my HR between 97-103%. Then I spend 30 seconds between 68-73%. So, then I check out what the MS involves. I spend my first 30 seconds getting and keeping my HR between 95-100%. I take a rest for 30 seconds and repeat this 9 times. I would then spend my next 10 minutes getting and keeping my HR between 78-83%. I then do my cool down which consists of 5 minutes of getting and keeping my HR between 68-73%, with an RPE of 2-3. So, I will have spent 16 minutes in WU, 20 minutes in MS and 5 minutes in CD with a total of 41 minutes. Am I on the right track? Thank you soooo very much! - Lora Basically during warm up # 1 you ride 10' @ 68-73% of your lactate threshold HR, then do 5 min riding alternating 30 seconds @97-100% of lactate threshold HR and 30 seconds @ 68-73% of lactate threshold HR spinning as recovery, do this until completing the 5' = total WU time = 15 min For the Main Set do 10 sets of 30 seconds each @ 95-100% of lactate threshold HR with 30 seconds @ 70-75% lactate threshold HR as recovery. Both the 30” interval @ 95-100% and the 30” interval @ 70-75% constitute one set for a total time 10 min. After you complete the sets then do 10 minutes @ 78-83% of lactate threshold HR. total time for MS = 20 minAfter you complete that then you do the CD which is 5 min @ 68-73% of lactate threshold HR. Total time: WU + MS + CD = 40 min There are no rests involving for you to stop completely. All the time you will be riding just at different intensities. If the session total time is 40, 50 or 60 min it means you won’t stop pedaling for the entire time. Hope that helps |
| 2008-11-18 8:31 AM in reply to: #1814043 |
Master 1887 Loveland, Ohio | Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009 JorgeM - 2008-11-18 9:01 AM lkagop - 2008-11-17 9:49 PM Lora and all, if you go to my blog http://jorgepbmcoaching.blogspot.com/ and go to the Notes and how to read sessions you then will see the link below that explains it for HR. http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_AxAesOeS5Wo/SRpKLH06Q9I/AAAAAAAAAEg/t3bCwYO5gfA/s1600-h/How+to+read+HR+session.gif Thank you so much again for doing this, Jorge. I, like so many others, really appreciate your valuable time. I'm really, really new to all of this, and I just want to be absolutely clear that I'm proceeding correctly. I'm really sorry if these questions are stupid, but could I trouble you to let me know if I've got this right? I'm in the HRM/RPE group. So, I go to your blog and scroll down to the "Cycling Plan Week 1 (HRM & RPE)" and find this chart. I then see what I need to do for my first session or Q1. The first thing I need to do for my first session is a warm up (WU), specifically WU #1. So, I then find your WU chart for HRM/RPEs to see what the WU #1 looks like. WU #1 will be 10' @68-73% HR + 5' as 30" @ 97-103%HR/30" 68-73HR. So, I will spend my first 10 minutes getting and keeping my HR between 68-73%. Then I spend the next 5 minutes and 30 seconds getting and keeping my HR between 97-103%. Then I spend 30 seconds between 68-73%. So, then I check out what the MS involves. I spend my first 30 seconds getting and keeping my HR between 95-100%. I take a rest for 30 seconds and repeat this 9 times. I would then spend my next 10 minutes getting and keeping my HR between 78-83%. I then do my cool down which consists of 5 minutes of getting and keeping my HR between 68-73%, with an RPE of 2-3. So, I will have spent 16 minutes in WU, 20 minutes in MS and 5 minutes in CD with a total of 41 minutes. Am I on the right track? Thank you soooo very much! - Lora Basically during warm up # 1 you ride 10' @ 68-73% of your lactate threshold HR, then do 5 min riding alternating 30 seconds @97-100% of lactate threshold HR and 30 seconds @ 68-73% of lactate threshold HR spinning as recovery, do this until completing the 5' = total WU time = 15 min For the Main Set do 10 sets of 30 seconds each @ 95-100% of lactate threshold HR with 30 seconds @ 70-75% lactate threshold HR as recovery. Both the 30” interval @ 95-100% and the 30” interval @ 70-75% constitute one set for a total time 10 min. After you complete the sets then do 10 minutes @ 78-83% of lactate threshold HR. total time for MS = 20 min After you complete that then you do the CD which is 5 min @ 68-73% of lactate threshold HR. Total time: WU + MS + CD = 40 minThere are no rests involving for you to stop completely. All the time you will be riding just at different intensities. If the session total time is 40, 50 or 60 min it means you won’t stop pedaling for the entire time. Hope that helps
OK. Great. I think I got it. That certainly did help. Thanks so much, Jorge. |
| 2008-11-18 8:43 AM in reply to: #1792702 |
Extreme Veteran 477 | Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009 |
| 2008-11-18 8:51 AM in reply to: #1814043 |
Champion 6056 Menomonee Falls, WI | Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009 Woo-hoo! I did my first workout for Jorge's program. Considering it was my first time on my bike since my last tri three months ago, it was a bit of a challenge. I have a question, though. I found it very hard to get my HR up into the range for the intervals, then afterward down into the recovery range. Is there a reason for this? Should I be concerned at all? There just seems to be a huge lag time to get my HR up or down. |
| 2008-11-18 9:24 AM in reply to: #1814121 |
Extreme Veteran 563 Pekin, IL | Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009 scoobysdad - 2008-11-18 8:51 AMWoo-hoo! I did my first workout for Jorge's program. Considering it was my first time on my bike since my last tri three months ago, it was a bit of a challenge.I have a question, though. I found it very hard to get my HR up into the range for the intervals, then afterward down into the recovery range. Is there a reason for this? Should I be concerned at all? There just seems to be a huge lag time to get my HR up or down.
Me too. During the warmup intervals, I think my HR got to the range on the last one and the intervals on the main set, my HR did not drop even close to the range for the rest intervals. Edited by CKinsey 2008-11-18 9:27 AM |
| 2008-11-18 9:50 AM in reply to: #1814121 |
Coach 10487 Boston, MA | Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009 scoobysdad - 2008-11-18 8:51 AM Woo-hoo! I did my first workout for Jorge's program. Considering it was my first time on my bike since my last tri three months ago, it was a bit of a challenge. I have a question, though. I found it very hard to get my HR up into the range for the intervals, then afterward down into the recovery range. Is there a reason for this? Should I be concerned at all? There just seems to be a huge lag time to get my HR up or down. Nope, it is not; that is perfectly normal! HR is a reflection of cardiovascular strain and not directly a reflection of what's going on your muscles given a stimulus (intensity) which is where we seek to produce training adaptations. During steady state efforts (z1-z2), HR reflects a bit better what’s going on with our muscles because the effort is pretty much even all the time, but when we increase the intensity (z3-z5) it takes time for you HR to catch up to what your muscles are doing. i.e. If you are sitting right now wearing a HRM and all of the sudden you stand up and sprint for 10 seconds and get back and sit down, you will see that your HR is just catching (increasing) after you sit back down. Even though you already used energy in your muscles to sprint for 10 seconds. Same here during the intervals, your HR will be just raising as you finish the interval and will just begin to go down after you finish the rest.For that reason I recommend to use RPE as you primarily way to gauge effort and use HR as secondary, as the intervals get longer it will become easier to guide your effort via HR because once you are pushing hard for a longer period of time your HR will be able to catch up. Also remember, given HR is not a direct reflection of the work done by your muscles and other variables can affect it, sometimes HR can be misleading. For that reason use it wisely, don’t let the HR dictate the effort; let your body (perceived exertion) do so and use the HR to make sure you are in the ballpark. |
| 2008-11-18 9:58 AM in reply to: #1813722 |
Lethbridge, Alberta Bronze member | Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009 lkagop - 2008-11-17 8:49 PM ... Am I on the right track? Thank you soooo very much! - Lora Just a quick comment: you probably wont be able to push your heart rate up to 100% of LTHR in the first :30 second hard interval. Probably not in the second interval either. The idea is that you should be working at the effort level that would eventually get your HR that high if you kept at it for a little while. When I trained by HR, I knew roughly what cadence and speed would get me to 100% LTHR. For shorter intervals, I would just hit that speed. That way I knew I was working hard enough even though the HR took a while to catch up. Edit: Now that I'm reading further, it looks like Jorge covers this above when he talks about using RPE instead. Always listen to Jorge first.  Edited by Micawber 2008-11-18 10:03 AM |
| 2008-11-18 3:54 PM in reply to: #1814227 |
Master 1222 Lafayette, IN | Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009 For that reason use it wisely, don’t let the HR dictate the effort; let your body (perceived exertion) do so and use the HR to make sure you are in the ballpark.-Jorge My son the x-country and track runner has told me at times that the HRM is holding me back. I am really starting to see that if I run by RPE, I will go faster. I originally got the HRM because I was afraid of going out too hard and figured it would keep me from blowing up. As time goes on, and I get more experience training, I do think the HRM does hold me back. If I use RPE, I do go faster. I will continue monitoring my HR since my HRM is still working, however I will pay more attention to RPE and develop that skill so I can train without HR. My wife says I am more wired than a NASA space shuttle when I head out! Edited by Gregkl 2008-11-18 3:55 PM |
I need to simplify!| 2008-11-18 4:43 PM in reply to: #1792702 |
Coach 10487 Boston, MA | Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009 Ok I am going to do my 1st session at 6pm. I'll hop online later on to see if anyone has any questions. I hope you guys are getting started! |
| 2008-11-18 5:59 PM in reply to: #1792702 |
Regular 68 Waltham | Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009 Thanks for everyone's feedback about a HRM with lap function. I think I'll stay away from the Garmin for now since I use a Nike+ to get distance/pace with running and I do want a watch/HRM that I can use while racing (inc. swimming) - so I'll probably just look to upgrade to a higher model Polar, or maybe switch over to Timex. I just finished "Q1" and had a good time with it. Nice to have a set interval program to do that was established by someone who really knows what he's doing! With the breakdown of the session, it made it go by very fast too which is nice on the trainer. So, thanks again Jorge!
Edited by monkeytri 2008-11-18 6:00 PM |
| 2008-11-18 7:26 PM in reply to: #1792702 |
Coach 10487 Boston, MA | Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009 ok, I survived the 1st Q1 session. I am way out of shape but in general it felt good to be back on the saddle. It is going to be a long way to get back in shape and get my cycling power back but it is all about doing the work and consistency |
| 2008-11-18 7:29 PM in reply to: #1792702 |
Master 3546 Millersville, MD | Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009 I've read all the materials on the blog, but am still confused by the "A" and "B" in the recovery portion of the interval (part in parenthases). For example, Q1 for HRM says: MS 10x30" (30" A) @ 95-100% HR + 10' @ 78-83% HR. In Q3 interval recovery, it's a B. I'm sure I just missed something, but what does the A/B stand for???? |
| 2008-11-18 7:52 PM in reply to: #1792702 |
Master 3479 Utah | Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009 Under training zones and terminology, scroll to the bottom, and click on the table for HRM/RPE or the one for power meter, whichever you are using. A and B are listed at the bottom of the table. They stand for the intensity you are shooting for with that particular session's rest interval. I think. Hope that helps! I am still trying to nail down the RPE. I saw the table on Jorge's blog before I asked the question, but I know that there are two different RPE scales out there. Without having any clue what my max HR or lactate threshold are, I can't correlate these RPE to my HR. Would RPE 2 be easy, still able to speak? 4 going hard, can't talk but not max effort? Is an RPE of 1 sitting still, or moving sloooowly? Anyone have more info for me? I THINK the other scale is a 1-10 scale, so I am fairly sure which one we're using here, but... Edited by givemashot 2008-11-18 7:53 PM |
| 2008-11-18 7:56 PM in reply to: #1815716 |
Veteran 156 | Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009 givemashot - 2008-11-18 8:52 PM Under training zones and terminology, scroll to the bottom, and click on the table for HRM/RPE or the one for power meter, whichever you are using. A and B are listed at the bottom of the table. They stand for the intensity you are shooting for with that particular session's rest interval. I think. Hope that helps! I am still trying to nail down the RPE. I saw the table on Jorge's blog before I asked the question, but I know that there are two different RPE scales out there. Without having any clue what my max HR or lactate threshold are, I can't correlate these RPE to my HR. Would RPE 2 be easy, still able to speak? 4 going hard, can't talk but not max effort? Is an RPE of 1 sitting still, or moving sloooowly? Anyone have more info for me? I THINK the other scale is a 1-10 scale, so I am fairly sure which one we're using here, but...
I am confused about the RPE as well. I know I have read about the zones and being able to talk/not talk due to effrot but a explantion would be helpful until we test LTHR in week 3 -Chris |
| 2008-11-18 8:01 PM in reply to: #1792702 |
Pro 4828 The Land of Ice and Snow | Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009 Hello all fellow cyclists! I just finished the first workout and am confused by the zones. Are the zones 1-5 listed the same as Joe Friel's zones? I had blood lactic acid testing done in the spring (yes, I know I should get tested again) and got zones 1 to 5c. However the top end of 5c is my max hr so I don't get how these zones max at 106%. Or am I looking at this ALL wrong ? Are the percentages listed a percentage of my LACTATE threshold and not my max?? If this is the case I just worked WAY too hard! Sorry to be a moron about this! |
| 2008-11-18 8:25 PM in reply to: #1792702 |
Master 3479 Utah | Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009 Sounds like the three of us have the same or similar questions. I did Q1 late last night, too. It went well, but without a solid idea of the RPE's, i decided to just wing it. The idea these first few weeks was to just get back in the saddle and move anyways, right? |
| 2008-11-18 8:29 PM in reply to: #1792702 |
Pro 4828 The Land of Ice and Snow | Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009 Yeah, I guess we all really want to know how much we should be suffering!! |
| 2008-11-18 8:34 PM in reply to: #1815751 |
Master 3546 Millersville, MD | Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009 aquagirl - 2008-11-18 9:01 PM Hello all fellow cyclists! I just finished the first workout and am confused by the zones. Are the zones 1-5 listed the same as Joe Friel's zones? I had blood lactic acid testing done in the spring (yes, I know I should get tested again) and got zones 1 to 5c. However the top end of 5c is my max hr so I don't get how these zones max at 106%. Or am I looking at this ALL wrong ? Are the percentages listed a percentage of my LACTATE threshold and not my max?? If this is the case I just worked WAY too hard! Sorry to be a moron about this!
This plan is calculated based on your lactate threshold. So 106% is probably close to or just under your Max HR.
Thanks to the person who pointed out the A/B thing - staring me in the face but I couldn't find it. |
| 2008-11-18 8:44 PM in reply to: #1792702 |
Pro 4828 The Land of Ice and Snow | Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009 Still don't get it ...5c according to my testing was my max hr, thus 100%. Jorge? Help? |
| 2008-11-18 8:47 PM in reply to: #1815622 |
Coach 10487 Boston, MA | Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009 JoshKaptur - 2008-11-18 7:29 PM what givemashot said I've read all the materials on the blog, but am still confused by the "A" and "B" in the recovery portion of the interval (part in parenthases). For example, Q1 for HRM says: MS 10x30" (30" A) @ 95-100% HR + 10' @ 78-83% HR. In Q3 interval recovery, it's a B. I'm sure I just missed something, but what does the A/B stand for???? |
| 2008-11-18 8:50 PM in reply to: #1815801 |
| Lethbridge, Alberta Bronze member | Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009 aquagirl - 2008-11-18 7:44 PM Still don't get it ...5c according to my testing was my max hr, thus 100%. Jorge? Help? If I understand it correctly, Jorge's percentages are based on what's commonly called LTHR not max HR. In Friel's zones that should be at the top of Z4 and the bottom of Z5. |
| 2008-11-18 8:51 PM in reply to: #1792702 |
Master 3546 Millersville, MD | Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009 Here's my HR graph for Q1 based on PRE. I just went close to as hard as I could for the 30 second intervals, and then just spun for 30 seconds. With the intervals being so short there was little time for wide fluctuations in HR - so this basically ended up being a Z4 (almost creeping into 5) workout.
Please ignore the fact that I was TOAST after this workout and wanted nothing more to do with my bike... I went for a quick walk for a cooldown, but left my garmin on the bike so no readings after 40 mins. Edited by JoshKaptur 2008-11-18 8:54 PM (week 1 q1 HR.JPG) Attachments ---------------- week 1 q1 HR.JPG (56KB - 14 downloads) |
| 2008-11-18 8:52 PM in reply to: #1792702 |
Regular 77 | Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009 Well I did Day 1 of the plan tonight and I have to admit, it was a little tougher than I was expecting. How tough is the actual workout going to be? lol Andy, |
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