Fast Twitch Tri-FULL (Page 10)

Weah almost neighbahs! 

MIKE -

For me, just about anything.  In fact this year I had my first-ever (first TWO ever!), non-wetsuits swim, and that's in over 100 races.  For most I wore a BlueSeventy swimskin thing over my tri stuff, as that is legal in swims in which a wetsuit isn't legal.

I said all that to let you know that i have worn my wetsuit for countless sprints, and I always feel it is beneficial.  I am hard-pressed to do a race swim in much under 1:50/100, and often it's clsoer to 2:00/100.  So, i'm not fast, and therin is my reason for always wearing the wetsuit -- i'm even slower without it, and my enough to know I save time by wearing it.  I have never had the problems Quincy describes, and while I know that what I recommended to her works for me, it obviously isn't the answer for everyone.  But i can get out of my suit in around 15-20s, i would guess, and fro a sprint swim I probably save 60-80s when in the wetsuit, and maybe 150 to 200s savings for an olympic. 

A person in my most recent told the following story from the Pittsburgh Ti this past July:  One of the big tri stars in his tri club showed up for the oly without his wetsuit, as pittsburgh is seldom wetsuit-legal, albeit close.  Well, this past yeat is WAS wetsuit-legal, and the guy was mad at himself for not even tossing it in his car, referring to waht he did as a "rookie mistake".  So for him, a big-deal tri guy who is a strong swimmer, he wished he had it for the oly.....and I aimagine he would've felt the same about the sprint.

Finally, I lied above.  As part fo the "Triple Challenge" at Chicago Triathlon, the first race is on saturday,a ndit's a super-sprint.  I think the swim is 250m, maybe 200m, but at any rate, standing there looking at the course before the race began, it just looked short......and I opted not to wear the wetsuit.  So I guess for me, if it's super-short i would go the easy route and swim without a wetsuit.  (I'm eyeing one next year where the swim is 0.2 miles, and that might be a decision to swim sans wetsuit.  We'll see!)

Q -

Full marks for him being a good sport ---- and for running so well with all that hair.  Mercy!

The term "Amazon Goddess" crosses my mind.......and if I dream about him tonight, that will be weird!

Congrats on the Amanda PR; she/he must be very proud.  Ciongrats too on the brunch PR, especially with a tummy issue going into it,  That's the way to dig deep, Q -- overcome the gastric prob and just suck it up in time for the brunch!

I envy you being able to do stuff for fun.  It's been years since I did any swim or bike or run just for fun, and I would never enetr a race just for the heck of it, or wear anything (like all that hair...) that would hinder my performance in any way.  I AM NOT PROUD of that, and I should just let it all go sometime and aim for pure fun.

the closest I come to that is some "C" races, and I guess anytime I race a second time on any given weekend.  I KNOW my performance will decline some in the second race, so i guess going into I'm doing it in some small way to just enjoy racing without no realistic notion of a PR.

But "in costume"???   C-r-i-n-g-e! 

I've been trying to figure out how to do a tri in costume. Sometimes I think the tri world takes itself too seriously. Then again the stuff people wear normally in a tri could be considered costumey to start so maybe there's not as much need. There is a bike ride near here that is a costume ride...maybe next year...

WAYNE -

You can read my post above to MIKE , in which I say I will wear the wetsuit whenever I come, and also cite my rough swim times.  I would say that if you consider yourself a substrong swimmer, you should look into getting one --- although down there, many of your swims are likely not wetsuit-legal.

I agree with the idea that wearing a wetsuit in cold water and/or on a cold day will help one stay warmer........but the cold (groan) fact is that one is still climbing on a bike in a wet top and heading out fast in cold air.  Or at least, that's me.  I have taken lots of "risks" over the eyars wherein I don't bother putting on a warm top over my wet tri top, which is wet because I always wear it under my wetsuit.  So the risk is one of hypothermia, i guess, where it's just wet and un-dried me against the elements.  So far, i have won them all, but I know it's a bit of edge-dancing to do this.

The concessions I make are three: 

1. I have my arm-warmers draped on my aerobars, and once I get air-dried, andif I'm quite cold, i will slip them on while riding;
2. I may have a pair of thin tech-type gloves in a Bento Box on my top tube, and if my fingers are numbly cold, i'll put on the gloves while riding;
3. I use toe-covers on my cleats any time the bike portion will be less than 60F, roughly, and this is especially helpful because I never wear socks (even though i have lousy circulation to my extremities).

For you, i expect the Amelai conditions would've been fairly brutal, had there been a swim.  That's not to say you'r enot tough, but rather that you'r probably not conditioned to racing or training alot in cold conditions.  Facing what you described -- wet, 67F, 25mph winds -- I would've been wary myself (but not so wary as to bother putting on a jacket or other top......which is getting back to the foolish risk factor).

Q -

 A guy at one of the Giant Acorn races (can't rmemebr if he was oly or sprint) wore a ballerina dress --- short, frilly, woulda been cute on a six-year old.  But he was a big guy, and maybe mid- to late-30s, so it just looked.....awkward.  I don't know what possessed him, other than his Inner Ballerina clamoring to be set free. 

JASON -

Going back a few days..........

First, scouting around I figured out that The Rock is not Newfoundland, but in fact Hawaii.  Lucky you!  Lucky, LUCKY you!

As for the 40kmTT and the pain cave, I am sure the HIM the week before had a massive amount to do with it.  Your bike time there was really good, your run time was really good, and it's clear that you didn't go slack there at all.  It's really tough to have an "A" race the week after a demanding race (2 or 3 weeks would be far better), andf I would score it a major moral victory to miss the goal time by only 30s. 

Yes, 5:05-5:10 is very realistic, but let it be known that many people have knocked big chunks off a half-iron PR.  And I AM thinking along the lines of 20 minutes or so, so you're within striking distance.  You also have age as a big factor on your side, and if you can cobble together consistently good training, it just might be there for you.  Swing for the fences, indeed!

I agree that the FTP becomes an approximate number anyway - so I'm the opposite.  I don't taper for my tests much (I just try to make sure it wasn't a crazy hard day just before the test and make it one of my workouts for the week (I'll usually put in Spinervals 27.0 so it's a standard way of taking the test).   For example, I plan on taking it next week since it's my last week of marathon taper prior to my first marathon so I have a lot less miles of running during that week so I can do the test as my threshold/time trial workout for the week.  The day before, I'll probably do a few 400m run intervals along with a swim.

Definitely aware that my tested FTP may be a little understated so if the workout numbers need to be adjusted, I'll adjust slightly.  I do the FTP test workout every 6 weeks or so.

Holly CRAP Shane,

That is a hard drill. My legs dropped like anchors, I could barley finish 25 before I felt like I was about to hit the bottom of the pool. I'm not sure what I was doing wrong my head was down, even looking back to over exaggerate.  Thanks for any help.

On a side note I signed up for a 12/16 1/2 marathon for my competitive fix. Ive never done a 8 week cycle to build for a 1/2 so I hope things go well.

Oh, dangit Shane!!!  I HATE PLANKS!!!  Now you want me to do the while swimming????? 

I think I get the drill though...will definitely give it a try in a pool I can stand up in.

michgirlsk - 2012-10-22 3:00 PM Amy, did you think there were one too many inclines???  Or is it just me?  I thought I had read lots on how this course was BQ-worthy, so I didn't expect so many!  (At least to me it seemed like a lot!)  Okay okay, I know there weren't THAT many, but sheesh, I'd like none.   Granted, for every incline there was a near equal decline, but...... I trudged up all the inclines because I didn't want to waste extra energy... I'm not sure if I completely made the time up on the downs, but... I just don't like climbing.

I totally thought the same thing!  I was wondering if I just hadn't trained hills well enough.  I never feel like I make up for it going downhill either.  Oddly enough, when I did do the full back in 2010 I found it to be quite BQ-worthy as I managed to qualify that year, my first (and only) full.  Are there or have there been any full marathons for you?  Doing this well in your 20's it seems there should be   I didn't consider all of this endurance athletics until I was post 30 and I often wished I had started a decade earlier!

To the group:

Do any of you around or over 40 start to feel that your body is feeling "old" and just won't perform for you anymore?  Or that you're just plain not capable of the things you used to be?  Or that you've already peaked and just can't get faster, go farther, etc?

If so, how have you overcome it, or have you accepted it and set different goals for yourself?

As an almost 50-something... Sure. I know my "best" performances in terms of speed are behind me. That's something I came to terms with years ago. It helps that I had several years away, had some injuries that led to surgery and I came out of that thinking I'd never be able to run again... I'm really just glad to be able to do this at all now. Having recovered SOME of my speed, I'm ecstatic.

But just because my "best" times are behind me doesn't mean that my "best" races are behind me. I've still never captured that perfect race. That's the elusive thing I chase. Sure, I've won my AG several times, but there's always something I could have done better, something that could have been improved, streamlined, thought out better before hand, dealt with better, etc.

I also have come to terms with the fact that, for running, I'm a but fragile. Once I start creeping toward double digit runs with any sort of consistency, I'm flirting with injury. Because of this, I know that my racing limit (as far as truly racing, not just running to make a distance) is about 10K.

Steve, 

Sorry I'm so late on responding... I was busy yesterday taking pictures of a friend's baby being born (no shots of the gross stuff, just the baby). 

My mom grew up on a farm, so she raised her kids to learn to work hard for what they have, I'm really glad she did that. 

As far as injuries, I've been very lucky over the past 2 years, until my back started acting up. I deal sometimes with old ankle and foot injuries from wakeboarding, but not nearly as much as I had expected. My main limiter in athletics is fear and anxiety. I have dealt with anxiety and panic disorder my entire life, and for the most part I have learned to control it when it comes to racing, it's just something else that wears on me mentally and physically leading up to the race.

You pretty much nailed that I put high expectations on myself and am afraid of failure. In workouts and in races, I feel like I MUST swim freestyle the entire distance, ride the bike non stop, and run or jog the entire run. I can't get off the bike, I can't walk, and I can't stop to tread water, even if I accidentally ingest some and choke, I just have to cough under water. I must say the desire to swim non stop is actually somewhat of a good thing, and having dealt with sudden panic attacks my entire life, I find I'm able to stay calm and keep swimming even if I choke on a bit of water. Coughing under water isn't fun, but it's possible. Overall though, that mentally puts undue stress on me and I really need to just let it go. 

I guess it's like I would rather not start, than start and fail, even though I know that is ridiculous. Once I get going I'm usually good to go.  I am aiming for New Orleans 2013 to FINALLY finish a half. It was a no swim this year due to 25-30mph winds with higher gusts and 4-5 foot waves. We did a time trial start 2 at a time for a 2 mile run to start.  There are 2 or 3 sprint distance races that I can do leading up to New Orleans next year, so I'll be warmed up to the idea of racing. I also plan to do a lot of mental work this winter to let go of the "all or nothing" mentality and the fear of distance on the run. I have though of forcing myself to adopt a run/walk strategy just to prove that it's ok to walk, I will probably even be faster. 

Thanks so much for the advice! Every little bit helps. I think I'm going to get on trifind and see what races are coming up for the end of the year or start of next year. 

OK, you guys have convinced me to give this a try. I think their is some surgical tubing at the pool that people sometimes use for this purpose. Of the three disciplines, swimming is my relative strength but I know this won't be fun. I will give you all a report.

I pretty much showed up on the tri scene at 40, so I don't have a younger performance to compare it to. I know that I've lost some physical ability in the course of aging, but I am way way stronger mentally so that makes up for some of it. I learn faster, my decision making is much keener, and I am not as susceptible to emotional break downs that would have done my younger, stronger self in.

There are also relative strengths and weaknesses. I know that for my age I still have relative speed, which is one reason I like short course. As distances increase I become less competitive, partly due to lack of experience, but partly because I have more speed than the average 40ish woman. As we age, the natural propensity is to lose speed and gain endurance. I am interested in hanging onto my speed as long as possible. Hoping by training correctly I can achieve this.

I haven't had a lot of injuries but I will echo what David said about running. I am very careful with mileage volume. Slogging through long slow distance doesn't do much for me except set me up for injuries. Fortunately it seems I can still increase volume through intensity and my body seems to respond with less of those niggles than if I simply tried to log mile after mile of z2 work.

I seriously doubt I'll match my cycling speed from college, even with better equipment; now 47.  I may get close as I didn't train as much then as I do now, even though I rode daily (commuting), but I know my explosive power (vertical leap) is _way_ down from when I was young.  So, I don't think I'll match my speed back then.

My running is probably better already, and I'm slow (5K PR 8:03 m/m).  My goal is to break 8 m/m by the end of the year.  I only ran in sports or for a couple of tri's I did in college; just a few weeks of prep running.  I've run more this year than any other year in my life.  So, while I probably could have run faster in my youth, I didn't work on it, so I didn't accomplish it.  I'm only better now due to working on it now and not working on it then.

I swam one year on a swim team in the beginning of HS, but it was a summer rec league.  We didn't have a HS swim team.  Some kids some year round, but they had to go to a bigger town 30-45 min away for that.  They were much better swimmers.  We only swam short distances, not 400-1500 m; maybe 400 yd was done as the longest swim.  If I can get signed up with a local masters swim team and get some form/technique help I'll probably end up being as good a swimmer, if not better, but again, that's not saying much.  If I were on a HS swim team in my youth and swam year round I wouldn't be able to repeat that speed now.

So, while I may end up doing better, it's just because I didn't work on it as hard in my youth.  Seeing how well I'm improving I'm really upset with myself that I didn't work at it more.  I was very good at cycling, even without a consistent workout.  I just didn't know anyone racing at the time and my parents thought it would be a waste of time.  Sigh.

I think I may get faster at running and swimming, but probably not at cycling, and only from a lack of volume and consistency in my youth.  My body is not better now, but my training is.

Some great and insightful responses regarding getting older and still competing.  As for me, my body just feels broken down for lack of a better description.  I take rest but it seems to make not much difference.  

For example, two years ago I trained for a marathon.  I felt pretty beaten up.  Now two years later, my body feels just as beat up training for a half marathon as it did for the full two years ago.  I can't even image the possibility of a full at this juncture.  I trained for HIM in early 2011 and I pretty much know I'm not physically capable of that much training anymore.

This is why I'm trying to be FAST TWITCH girl!  But, everything feels harder than it ever has before, even the short stuff.  Working on speed seems to put just as much stress on my body as the longer zone 2 easy pace stuff.

I eat really well, do massage, yoga, pliates, have a podiatrist and chiropractor with whom I work.  I try not to overdo it.  I'm an otherwise completely healthy, fit person with a good fat to muscle ratio.  Yet with each passing day my body grows more and more weary and my recovery is poorer and poorer.  My body is telling me it just can't keep up with my demands any longer.  And I'm just shy of 39!  Granted, I've been at this fitness thing since my early 20's with the emphasis on running/tris post age 30.

I just seems like I'm the only one feeling this way at this young of an age......

^^^ This.  It sounds really funny and maybe is a bit tounge-in-cheek, but it definitely sounds like you're burned out and exhausted from all of those years of dedication to fitness.  It's hard to stop, I know, but it may be just what the doctor ordered.  Take a month almost completely off and do some fun training if you need to feel active.  Joe Friel's blog this week on TP is a good read:

http://blog.trainingpeaks.com/posts/2012/10/18/the-transition-period-by-joe-friel.html

Noelle,

I'm 44 so I can say what you are feeling is NOT because you are just too old. You might be coming down with a cold. Maybe you are overtrained. Maybe it's just not your day. I am self-coached so it is easy for me to just say "I'm tired and sore and think I'll take the day off." It would be harder to explain this to a coach I think -- don't know your situation.

There's no doubt in my mind that speed work stresses the body more than your longer slower stuff. Hill work is also really stressful on my body. I haven't run since last Saturday because I overdid it. Today I woke up and the soreness was pretty much gone, almost seems miraculous considering how bad it felt for 2 days.

One thing I do to try to work on recovery is to make sure I get 7.5-8 hours of sleep a night. I also try to make sure to spread out my sprint work in each sport throughout the week. When it is really bad I eat lots of Advil and I also bought some analgesic salve they sell at farm stores for horses with sore legs. It's the same stuff they make for people only you get a lot more of it when you buy it for animals. You smell like a grandma but it does work. 

Guys, thanks for the input!!  It's definitely not just a recent thing.  It's been this slow decline over the course of the last two years.  Nothing has changed, not my passion, not how well I train or well I eat, or well I treat my body.  The only variable that is changing is that I am getting older.  I do get solid sleep, I do spread out my workouts.  If I feel just plain exhausted, I take an easier day even if I had not planned to do so.  I always take one day off per week to just do yoga or take a nice long walk.

I guess the bigger picture is that I can't keep up with myself anymore.  My performance in all disciplines as well as what I do outside of triathlon has either decreased or stabilized.  And after what used to be an easy workout, I just feel bushed.  Even a 6 mile run at zone two that feels easy leaves me SO tired.  It never used to be so.

Maybe I just need to improve my resting skills!  I am going to see a tri coach in a few weeks so hopefully she can lend some insight and give me a good off season plan.