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AMA classifies obesity as a disease (Page 10)
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 2013-06-26 8:42 AM in reply to: 0 |
Champion  10157    Alabama |  Subject: RE: AMA classifies obesity as a diseaseOriginally posted by KateTri1 Originally posted by Rogillio The good news is, I don't think my insurance company can increase my rates for being obese like they are doing to smokers since obesity it is a pre-exisiting condition....a disease....which implies it was not my fault. ;-) Well, actually they can. They can't "refuse" you coverage, but they can surely make it unaffordable. Then what is the point of the ACA law that precludes denial of coverage for pre-existing conditions? All the insurance companies would have to do is make it ridiculously expensive (unaffordable). Edited by Rogillio 2013-06-26 8:50 AM |
| 2013-06-26 12:12 PM in reply to: 0 |
Master 2167 Livonia, MI | Subject: RE: AMA classifies obesity as a disease Originally posted by Socks Originally posted by noelle1230 Originally posted by KateTri1 Originally posted by Socks Fat people know they are fat and usually don't want to be that way but if it were easy they would be able to help themselves and no one would be overweight. They also have to WANT to make a change but when they do I can't get them the help they need without a diagnosis. i also would rather have the tools to treat them NOW rather in in 10 years when they are diabetic have hypertension and have already had a heart attack at 35. The cost of treating those diseases long term is far higher than getting someone to a nutritionist and into the gym. amen I call shenanigans on that. As it stood before this change, if a doctor found someone to be pre-diabetic, pre-hypertensive or tests showed they were a candidate for heart disease, the doctor treated those things. And if the MD thought that the patient being overweight was the cause of those things, the MD suggested weight loss. And if the MD felt the patient had an eating disorder, depression, anxiety or anything else that could be a cause of overeating, he/she could refer the patient to a mental health professional. How does calling obesity a disease change any of that? When did COJ get so snarky. Geez Its this thing called INSURANCE. If its not a DISEASE or a DISORDER and its not CODE-ABLE = no payment for treatment. That means I can't send the person to a nutritionist or a mental health person or to PT or whatever it is they may need. I know you all will argue that you don't have to see a nutritionist to buy veggies but if all you ate was fast food all your life you need help to change. I agree medicine has failed to push the issue and fails to approach things holistically but honestly you can only beat your head against a brick wall for so many hours a day. Lead a horse to water and all that. As an orthopedist I don't write for HTN meds or diabetes meds or any of that stuff but HTN and diabetes are things insurance will pay to treat because they have the all important CODE. When people ask "what can I do" I offer them resources and try to help but I have had only a handful of people take me up on it, a few have been very successful but most just shrug their shoulders at me. Actually a guy who was my rep years ago became diabetic at 300 + pounds turned things around started doing tris and has lost over 80# He is no longer diabetic and has the tri bug BAD. I think its awesome. Oops, mangled the formatting in my response early this morning. What I was trying to say to this post was: I'm sorry if I was snarky, that was not my intention. I am trying to learn and appreciate the point of view of a medical professional. The point I've been trying to make, as have others if you have a few minutes to read through the whole thread is that obesity seems to me like a symptom, not a disease. Before this ruling, didn't you have codes for eating disorders, or hormonal disorders or whatever the underlying CAUSE may be for someone grossly overweight? And if the body being so overweight caused other health issues like diabetes, high blood pressure, heart disease, etc, weren't you already treating those? I'm just wondering what this code of obesity will really do. If someone came in grossly underweight to the point they were sick would you need an "underweight" code to treat them? Or would you be able to look deeper for an actually cause or disorder, be it physical or mental? Also, you mention that surgery should be left for the morbidly obese. Don't you think that this ruling leaves the door open for more people to use it as a solution rather than modifying their lifestyle which would probably work for the vast majority of overweight people?
Edited by noelle1230 2013-06-26 12:13 PM |
| 2013-06-26 12:18 PM in reply to: Rogillio |
Science Nerd 28760  Redwood City, California | Subject: RE: AMA classifies obesity as a disease Originally posted by Rogillio Originally posted by KateTri1 Then what is the point of the ACA law that precludes denial of coverage for pre-existing conditions? All the insurance companies would have to do is make it ridiculously expensive (unaffordable). Originally posted by Rogillio The good news is, I don't think my insurance company can increase my rates for being obese like they are doing to smokers since obesity it is a pre-exisiting condition....a disease....which implies it was not my fault. ;-) Well, actually they can. They can't "refuse" you coverage, but they can surely make it unaffordable. There is a provision in the ACA for that as well. I believe it goes into effect in January 2014. |
| 2013-06-26 1:03 PM in reply to: Artemis |
Expert 1951 | Subject: RE: AMA classifies obesity as a disease Originally posted by Artemis Originally posted by Rogillio Originally posted by KateTri1 Then what is the point of the ACA law that precludes denial of coverage for pre-existing conditions? All the insurance companies would have to do is make it ridiculously expensive (unaffordable). Originally posted by Rogillio The good news is, I don't think my insurance company can increase my rates for being obese like they are doing to smokers since obesity it is a pre-exisiting condition....a disease....which implies it was not my fault. ;-) Well, actually they can. They can't "refuse" you coverage, but they can surely make it unaffordable. There is a provision in the ACA for that as well. I believe it goes into effect in January 2014. That's actually kind of cool. I am wondering though what the criteria for the actual diagnosis for "obesity" might look like. |
| 2013-06-26 1:14 PM in reply to: KateTri1 |
Champion 6999 Chicago, Illinois | Subject: RE: AMA classifies obesity as a disease Originally posted by KateTri1 That's actually kind of cool. I am wondering though what the criteria for the actual diagnosis for "obesity" might look like. that is simple. BMI over 30. Remember you can be 8% body fat and still be obese. |
| 2013-06-26 1:18 PM in reply to: KateTri1 |
Champion 10157 Alabama | Subject: RE: AMA classifies obesity as a disease Originally posted by KateTri1 Originally posted by Artemis Originally posted by Rogillio Originally posted by KateTri1 Then what is the point of the ACA law that precludes denial of coverage for pre-existing conditions? All the insurance companies would have to do is make it ridiculously expensive (unaffordable). Originally posted by Rogillio The good news is, I don't think my insurance company can increase my rates for being obese like they are doing to smokers since obesity it is a pre-exisiting condition....a disease....which implies it was not my fault. ;-) Well, actually they can. They can't "refuse" you coverage, but they can surely make it unaffordable. There is a provision in the ACA for that as well. I believe it goes into effect in January 2014. That's actually kind of cool. I am wondering though what the criteria for the actual diagnosis for "obesity" might look like. Good question. I was 250+ when I completed my two ironman races and I fit the definition of obese. I finished my second (IMKY) in 14:30. So while I might have been diagnose as having the disease of obesity I was much healthier than many people 100 lbs my junior. |
| 2013-06-26 1:24 PM in reply to: Rogillio |
Elite 6387 | Subject: RE: AMA classifies obesity as a disease Originally posted by Rogillio Originally posted by KateTri1 Good question. I was 250+ when I completed my two ironman races and I fit the definition of obese. I finished my second (IMKY) in 14:30. So while I might have been diagnose as having the disease of obesity I was much healthier than many people 100 lbs my junior. Originally posted by Artemis Originally posted by Rogillio Originally posted by KateTri1 Then what is the point of the ACA law that precludes denial of coverage for pre-existing conditions? All the insurance companies would have to do is make it ridiculously expensive (unaffordable). Originally posted by Rogillio The good news is, I don't think my insurance company can increase my rates for being obese like they are doing to smokers since obesity it is a pre-exisiting condition....a disease....which implies it was not my fault. ;-) Well, actually they can. They can't "refuse" you coverage, but they can surely make it unaffordable. There is a provision in the ACA for that as well. I believe it goes into effect in January 2014. That's actually kind of cool. I am wondering though what the criteria for the actual diagnosis for "obesity" might look like. That is a hard one to swallow. I used to smoke and still rode. I was a light smoker... 1/2 a pack a day. I rode a lot of miles, and every weekend I would kick my non smoking friends butts. They were all mad that I was a smoker, and I always told them that if they put in the miles I did, then they would beat me. So while I might have trained harder, and had a better engine than my friends... I always knew my smoking was not healthy, and that I would be much better with out. Just because a particular measure may come out good, it does not make weighing less or smoking a good thing. Over all, I would have been "healthier" riding less and not smoking. |
| 2013-06-26 1:37 PM in reply to: powerman |
Champion 10157 Alabama | Subject: RE: AMA classifies obesity as a disease Originally posted by powerman Originally posted by Rogillio Originally posted by KateTri1 Good question. I was 250+ when I completed my two ironman races and I fit the definition of obese. I finished my second (IMKY) in 14:30. So while I might have been diagnose as having the disease of obesity I was much healthier than many people 100 lbs my junior. Originally posted by Artemis Originally posted by Rogillio Originally posted by KateTri1 Then what is the point of the ACA law that precludes denial of coverage for pre-existing conditions? All the insurance companies would have to do is make it ridiculously expensive (unaffordable). Originally posted by Rogillio The good news is, I don't think my insurance company can increase my rates for being obese like they are doing to smokers since obesity it is a pre-exisiting condition....a disease....which implies it was not my fault. ;-) Well, actually they can. They can't "refuse" you coverage, but they can surely make it unaffordable. There is a provision in the ACA for that as well. I believe it goes into effect in January 2014. That's actually kind of cool. I am wondering though what the criteria for the actual diagnosis for "obesity" might look like. That is a hard one to swallow. I used to smoke and still rode. I was a light smoker... 1/2 a pack a day. I rode a lot of miles, and every weekend I would kick my non smoking friends butts. They were all mad that I was a smoker, and I always told them that if they put in the miles I did, then they would beat me. So while I might have trained harder, and had a better engine than my friends... I always knew my smoking was not healthy, and that I would be much better with out. Just because a particular measure may come out good, it does not make weighing less or smoking a good thing. Over all, I would have been "healthier" riding less and not smoking. But you are comparing yourself to yourself. Certianly I would have been heathier at 210 lbs than at 250 lbs. My point was that I was 'obese' but still able to swim 2.4 miles, ride a bicycle for 112 miles and run a marathon. In fact, I'd run several marathons. In my first marathon I ran non stop for 23 miles before taking my first walk break. I ate heathly foods (granted, way too much food but still healthy food), I didn't smoke, I didn't drink any alcohol, I got plenty of rest/sleep, lifted weights and worked out 12 to 15 hrs/week and virtually never got sick. But I was aflicted with the obesity disease..... |
| 2013-06-26 1:41 PM in reply to: Rogillio |
Sensei Sin City | Subject: RE: AMA classifies obesity as a disease Does fit = health? If I finished my IM with cancer, I would think that I'm fit but still not healthy. |
| 2013-06-26 1:44 PM in reply to: Rogillio |
Elite 6387 | Subject: RE: AMA classifies obesity as a disease Originally posted by Rogillio But you are comparing yourself to yourself. Certianly I would have been heathier at 210 lbs than at 250 lbs. My point was that I was 'obese' but still able to swim 2.4 miles, ride a bicycle for 112 miles and run a marathon. In fact, I'd run several marathons. In my first marathon I ran non stop for 23 miles before taking my first walk break. I ate heathly foods (granted, way too much food but still healthy food), I didn't smoke, I didn't drink any alcohol, I got plenty of rest/sleep, lifted weights and worked out 12 to 15 hrs/week and virtually never got sick. But I was aflicted with the obesity disease..... Hummmm... Not sure. We could go to the extreme and look at NFL line men. By far the most physically fit 300+ lb men on the planet... But I would be hard pressed to agree that carrying around 100-200 extra pounds "healthy". Fit maybe, healthy, not sure. So then in your case it comes down to a matter of degree. Is 50 pounds too much, 20, 10... I'm not sure of the answer. I get what you are saying. And I do think smoking is more harmful than extra fat so maybe I was not comparing apples to apples. I'm not sure when you can be fit, and extra fat becomes "unhealthy". |
| 2013-06-26 1:59 PM in reply to: 0 |
Champion 10157 Alabama | Subject: RE: AMA classifies obesity as a disease Originally posted by powerman Originally posted by Rogillio But you are comparing yourself to yourself. Certianly I would have been heathier at 210 lbs than at 250 lbs. My point was that I was 'obese' but still able to swim 2.4 miles, ride a bicycle for 112 miles and run a marathon. In fact, I'd run several marathons. In my first marathon I ran non stop for 23 miles before taking my first walk break. I ate heathly foods (granted, way too much food but still healthy food), I didn't smoke, I didn't drink any alcohol, I got plenty of rest/sleep, lifted weights and worked out 12 to 15 hrs/week and virtually never got sick. But I was aflicted with the obesity disease..... Hummmm... Not sure. We could go to the extreme and look at NFL line men. By far the most physically fit 300+ lb men on the planet... But I would be hard pressed to agree that carrying around 100-200 extra pounds "healthy". Fit maybe, healthy, not sure. So then in your case it comes down to a matter of degree. Is 50 pounds too much, 20, 10... I'm not sure of the answer. I get what you are saying. And I do think smoking is more harmful than extra fat so maybe I was not comparing apples to apples. I'm not sure when you can be fit, and extra fat becomes "unhealthy". Overall health includes physical, emotional and spiritual health. You can eat a healthy diet and be emotionally and morally bankrupt to the point that you hate yourself and everyone around you and I submit you are not healty. I believe physical "health" is a function of diet, exercise and genetics. You can eat healthy foods and have a lean physique but can't run from A to B or do 20 pushup or walk up a few flights of stairs then you are not healthy IMO. OTOH, if you run 6 miles a day and work out 2 - 3 times a day but still carry some excess baggage, I don't think that is unhealthy. Genetics also plays a role in one's health. Some people just seem to be sick all the time regardless of how well they take care of themselves. Others can eat garbage all their lives and live to be 98. I agree that smoking for most people is more harmful than extra body weight....OTOH, there have been many people who smoke modestly for decades and live to be 90 and never have smoking related illnesses. Kind of a rambling post on my part. Sorry. Just thowing out some thoughts/observatons. Edited by Rogillio 2013-06-26 2:04 PM |
| 2013-06-26 2:01 PM in reply to: 0 |
Master 2167 Livonia, MI | Subject: RE: AMA classifies obesity as a disease Originally posted by powerman Originally posted by Rogillio But you are comparing yourself to yourself. Certianly I would have been heathier at 210 lbs than at 250 lbs. My point was that I was 'obese' but still able to swim 2.4 miles, ride a bicycle for 112 miles and run a marathon. In fact, I'd run several marathons. In my first marathon I ran non stop for 23 miles before taking my first walk break. I ate heathly foods (granted, way too much food but still healthy food), I didn't smoke, I didn't drink any alcohol, I got plenty of rest/sleep, lifted weights and worked out 12 to 15 hrs/week and virtually never got sick. But I was aflicted with the obesity disease..... Hummmm... Not sure. We could go to the extreme and look at NFL line men. By far the most physically fit 300+ lb men on the planet... But I would be hard pressed to agree that carrying around 100-200 extra pounds "healthy". Fit maybe, healthy, not sure. So then in your case it comes down to a matter of degree. Is 50 pounds too much, 20, 10... I'm not sure of the answer. I get what you are saying. And I do think smoking is more harmful than extra fat so maybe I was not comparing apples to apples. I'm not sure when you can be fit, and extra fat becomes "unhealthy". I think you've hit on something that kinda makes my point for me about this whole obesity as a disease thing. The "being fat" isn't the health issue......the health issue is whatever sickness the body has due to being too fat. Or, the issue is being miserable because mentally you can't behave in a way that makes you unfat when you wish you were unfat, in which case you can seek psychological/psychiatric treatment. If you're fat and have no health issues, blood work doesn't show you're on your way to any health issues, mentally your happy and not frustrated by not being able to change habits, and we all know BMI can be wrong, who's to say you have any DISEASE at all???? Edited by noelle1230 2013-06-26 2:01 PM |
| 2013-06-26 2:36 PM in reply to: noelle1230 |
Elite 6387 | Subject: RE: AMA classifies obesity as a disease Originally posted by noelle1230 If you're fat and have no health issues, blood work doesn't show you're on your way to any health issues, mentally your happy and not frustrated by not being able to change habits, and we all know BMI can be wrong, who's to say you have any DISEASE at all???? But I also doubt you would be "obese" at that point. Sure, your BMI might not be favorable. But in my mind, we are talking about having 30 extra pounds, and obese we are talking 100. Forget all that because I actually had to find out for myself. At my heaviest, I was 190. On the verge of going up another pant size, quite a little belly, and miserable. I had been on the couch for about 3 years. My BMI was 26.5, overweight. I thought I was carrying 20 pounds of fat around, but after training knew it was like 25-30. I got down to 165 which was normal, and added a bit of muscle. At 215 I would be obese, and there would be now way I would think of myself as obese at 215. And I do not have a ton of muscle mass to skew the numbers. That would be all fat... but it would be 35 lbs. of fat that puts me from top of normal to bottom of obese. That's crazy. |
| 2013-06-26 2:50 PM in reply to: powerman |
Champion 10157 Alabama | Subject: RE: AMA classifies obesity as a disease Originally posted by powerman Originally posted by noelle1230 If you're fat and have no health issues, blood work doesn't show you're on your way to any health issues, mentally your happy and not frustrated by not being able to change habits, and we all know BMI can be wrong, who's to say you have any DISEASE at all???? But I also doubt you would be "obese" at that point. Sure, your BMI might not be favorable. But in my mind, we are talking about having 30 extra pounds, and obese we are talking 100. Forget all that because I actually had to find out for myself. At my heaviest, I was 190. On the verge of going up another pant size, quite a little belly, and miserable. I had been on the couch for about 3 years. My BMI was 26.5, overweight. I thought I was carrying 20 pounds of fat around, but after training knew it was like 25-30. I got down to 165 which was normal, and added a bit of muscle. At 215 I would be obese, and there would be now way I would think of myself as obese at 215. And I do not have a ton of muscle mass to skew the numbers. That would be all fat... but it would be 35 lbs. of fat that puts me from top of normal to bottom of obese. That's crazy. Such is the dilema of saying someone has a disease if they are 'obese'. Who decides what is 'obese' and what was 'love handles'? Of course, the same issue exists with calling alcoholism a disease. If you drink a 5th of Jack every other day are you an alcoholic? Maybe, maybe not. Calorie-wise, if you drank a 5th of Jack every other day you'd probably be obese too....but I distract myself. |
| 2013-06-26 2:54 PM in reply to: powerman |
Master 2167 Livonia, MI | Subject: RE: AMA classifies obesity as a disease Originally posted by powerman Originally posted by noelle1230 If you're fat and have no health issues, blood work doesn't show you're on your way to any health issues, mentally your happy and not frustrated by not being able to change habits, and we all know BMI can be wrong, who's to say you have any DISEASE at all???? But I also doubt you would be "obese" at that point. Sure, your BMI might not be favorable. But in my mind, we are talking about having 30 extra pounds, and obese we are talking 100. Forget all that because I actually had to find out for myself. At my heaviest, I was 190. On the verge of going up another pant size, quite a little belly, and miserable. I had been on the couch for about 3 years. My BMI was 26.5, overweight. I thought I was carrying 20 pounds of fat around, but after training knew it was like 25-30. I got down to 165 which was normal, and added a bit of muscle. At 215 I would be obese, and there would be now way I would think of myself as obese at 215. And I do not have a ton of muscle mass to skew the numbers. That would be all fat... but it would be 35 lbs. of fat that puts me from top of normal to bottom of obese. That's crazy. I think you're coming around to my way of thinking! |
| 2013-06-26 3:09 PM in reply to: Rogillio |
Elite 6387 | Subject: RE: AMA classifies obesity as a disease Originally posted by Rogillio Such is the dilema of saying someone has a disease if they are 'obese'. Who decides what is 'obese' and what was 'love handles'? Of course, the same issue exists with calling alcoholism a disease. If you drink a 5th of Jack every other day are you an alcoholic? Maybe, maybe not. Calorie-wise, if you drank a 5th of Jack every other day you'd probably be obese too....but I distract myself. Just ask him to stop, and you will get your answer. Not at all trying to tie the two together anymore, just interesting... I heard a staggering statistic on the news one night from a study. 50% of Americans drink... considered one drink a year. Of the American's that drink, 10% have a "problem", and 10% are alcoholic. That 20% of drinkers, consume 80% of all the alcohol. It's staggering to me that 50% of all Americans do not drink at all. And it is also crazy to think that 80% of a liquor stores sales are going to people that should not have it. And the other 20% go to responsible folks. That is a LOT of booze for a very small percent of the population I was wondering what a similar stat would be of all the fast food and junk food consumed and what percentage obese people hold? |
| 2013-06-26 3:17 PM in reply to: powerman |
Champion 10157 Alabama | Subject: RE: AMA classifies obesity as a disease Originally posted by powerman Originally posted by Rogillio Such is the dilema of saying someone has a disease if they are 'obese'. Who decides what is 'obese' and what was 'love handles'? Of course, the same issue exists with calling alcoholism a disease. If you drink a 5th of Jack every other day are you an alcoholic? Maybe, maybe not. Calorie-wise, if you drank a 5th of Jack every other day you'd probably be obese too....but I distract myself. Just ask him to stop, and you will get your answer. Not at all trying to tie the two together anymore, just interesting... I heard a staggering statistic on the news one night from a study. 50% of Americans drink... considered one drink a year. Of the American's that drink, 10% have a "problem", and 10% are alcoholic. That 20% of drinkers, consume 80% of all the alcohol. It's staggering to me that 50% of all Americans do not drink at all. And it is also crazy to think that 80% of a liquor stores sales are going to people that should not have it. And the other 20% go to responsible folks. That is a LOT of booze for a very small percent of the population I was wondering what a similar stat would be of all the fast food and junk food consumed and what percentage obese people hold? "Just ask him to stop, and you will get your answer." So you agree the 'disease' is characterized or defined by behavior? BTW, how the heck do you change font now? Where is the command to make something bold? |
| 2013-06-26 3:28 PM in reply to: Rogillio |
Elite 6387 | Subject: RE: AMA classifies obesity as a disease Originally posted by Rogillio Originally posted by powerman "Just ask him to stop, and you will get your answer." So you agree the 'disease' is characterized or defined by behavior? BTW, how the heck do you change font now? Where is the command to make something bold? Originally posted by Rogillio Such is the dilema of saying someone has a disease if they are 'obese'. Who decides what is 'obese' and what was 'love handles'? Of course, the same issue exists with calling alcoholism a disease. If you drink a 5th of Jack every other day are you an alcoholic? Maybe, maybe not. Calorie-wise, if you drank a 5th of Jack every other day you'd probably be obese too....but I distract myself. Just ask him to stop, and you will get your answer. Not at all trying to tie the two together anymore, just interesting... I heard a staggering statistic on the news one night from a study. 50% of Americans drink... considered one drink a year. Of the American's that drink, 10% have a "problem", and 10% are alcoholic. That 20% of drinkers, consume 80% of all the alcohol. It's staggering to me that 50% of all Americans do not drink at all. And it is also crazy to think that 80% of a liquor stores sales are going to people that should not have it. And the other 20% go to responsible folks. That is a LOT of booze for a very small percent of the population I was wondering what a similar stat would be of all the fast food and junk food consumed and what percentage obese people hold? No, I agree it is characterized by a whole host of factors. I'm backing away from trying to compare the two. This whole subject get's very complicated when you look at a condition caused by personal choice. You do not "choose" cancer or small pox. Everyone can get that. You can't be an alcoholic, unless you put it in you, which is a choice. But there are factors that make you want to choose it. With obesity, obviously there is a personal choice to do that, and I do not know myself what factors may be involved to make you want to choose that. At least medical factors for the AMA. And yes, I do understand the complexity of looking at a disease state, which is a symptom, but not actually THE disease. I can't speak for anyone else, I can just speak for me. I understand it to the point that I can make proper decisions for my life. Hopefully, others can get their head wrapped around what ever they need to, to get their life where they want it. ... and you do not see all the tool bars above your text box? Are you doing "quick reply"? |
| 2013-06-26 3:35 PM in reply to: powerman |
Champion 10157 Alabama | Subject: RE: AMA classifies obesity as a disease Originally posted by powerman Originally posted by Rogillio Originally posted by powerman "Just ask him to stop, and you will get your answer." So you agree the 'disease' is characterized or defined by behavior? BTW, how the heck do you change font now? Where is the command to make something bold? Originally posted by Rogillio Such is the dilema of saying someone has a disease if they are 'obese'. Who decides what is 'obese' and what was 'love handles'? Of course, the same issue exists with calling alcoholism a disease. If you drink a 5th of Jack every other day are you an alcoholic? Maybe, maybe not. Calorie-wise, if you drank a 5th of Jack every other day you'd probably be obese too....but I distract myself. Just ask him to stop, and you will get your answer. Not at all trying to tie the two together anymore, just interesting... I heard a staggering statistic on the news one night from a study. 50% of Americans drink... considered one drink a year. Of the American's that drink, 10% have a "problem", and 10% are alcoholic. That 20% of drinkers, consume 80% of all the alcohol. It's staggering to me that 50% of all Americans do not drink at all. And it is also crazy to think that 80% of a liquor stores sales are going to people that should not have it. And the other 20% go to responsible folks. That is a LOT of booze for a very small percent of the population I was wondering what a similar stat would be of all the fast food and junk food consumed and what percentage obese people hold? No, I agree it is characterized by a whole host of factors. I'm backing away from trying to compare the two. This whole subject get's very complicated when you look at a condition caused by personal choice. You do not "choose" cancer or small pox. Everyone can get that. You can't be an alcoholic, unless you put it in you, which is a choice. But there are factors that make you want to choose it. With obesity, obviously there is a personal choice to do that, and I do not know myself what factors may be involved to make you want to choose that. At least medical factors for the AMA. And yes, I do understand the complexity of looking at a disease state, which is a symptom, but not actually THE disease. I can't speak for anyone else, I can just speak for me. I understand it to the point that I can make proper decisions for my life. Hopefully, others can get their head wrapped around what ever they need to, to get their life where they want it. ... and you do not see all the tool bars above your text box? Are you doing "quick reply"? No, I don't see any tool bars and no I'm not using quick reply. Probaly some setting in my profile? |
| 2013-06-26 3:38 PM in reply to: powerman |
Champion 10157 Alabama | Subject: RE: AMA classifies obesity as a disease Originally posted by powerman Originally posted by Rogillio Originally posted by powerman "Just ask him to stop, and you will get your answer." So you agree the 'disease' is characterized or defined by behavior? BTW, how the heck do you change font now? Where is the command to make something bold? Originally posted by Rogillio Such is the dilema of saying someone has a disease if they are 'obese'. Who decides what is 'obese' and what was 'love handles'? Of course, the same issue exists with calling alcoholism a disease. If you drink a 5th of Jack every other day are you an alcoholic? Maybe, maybe not. Calorie-wise, if you drank a 5th of Jack every other day you'd probably be obese too....but I distract myself. Just ask him to stop, and you will get your answer. Not at all trying to tie the two together anymore, just interesting... I heard a staggering statistic on the news one night from a study. 50% of Americans drink... considered one drink a year. Of the American's that drink, 10% have a "problem", and 10% are alcoholic. That 20% of drinkers, consume 80% of all the alcohol. It's staggering to me that 50% of all Americans do not drink at all. And it is also crazy to think that 80% of a liquor stores sales are going to people that should not have it. And the other 20% go to responsible folks. That is a LOT of booze for a very small percent of the population I was wondering what a similar stat would be of all the fast food and junk food consumed and what percentage obese people hold? No, I agree it is characterized by a whole host of factors. I'm backing away from trying to compare the two. This whole subject get's very complicated when you look at a condition caused by personal choice. You do not "choose" cancer or small pox. Everyone can get that. You can't be an alcoholic, unless you put it in you, which is a choice. But there are factors that make you want to choose it. With obesity, obviously there is a personal choice to do that, and I do not know myself what factors may be involved to make you want to choose that. At least medical factors for the AMA. And yes, I do understand the complexity of looking at a disease state, which is a symptom, but not actually THE disease. I can't speak for anyone else, I can just speak for me. I understand it to the point that I can make proper decisions for my life. Hopefully, others can get their head wrapped around what ever they need to, to get their life where they want it. ... and you do not see all the tool bars above your text box? Are you doing "quick reply"?
OK, found it. Had to select "rich text editor" in my profile. |
| 2013-06-26 3:46 PM in reply to: powerman |
Sensei Sin City | Subject: RE: AMA classifies obesity as a disease Originally posted by powerman Originally posted by Rogillio Such is the dilema of saying someone has a disease if they are 'obese'. Who decides what is 'obese' and what was 'love handles'? Of course, the same issue exists with calling alcoholism a disease. If you drink a 5th of Jack every other day are you an alcoholic? Maybe, maybe not. Calorie-wise, if you drank a 5th of Jack every other day you'd probably be obese too....but I distract myself. Just ask him to stop, and you will get your answer. Not at all trying to tie the two together anymore, just interesting... I heard a staggering statistic on the news one night from a study. 50% of Americans drink... considered one drink a year. Of the American's that drink, 10% have a "problem", and 10% are alcoholic. That 20% of drinkers, consume 80% of all the alcohol. It's staggering to me that 50% of all Americans do not drink at all. And it is also crazy to think that 80% of a liquor stores sales are going to people that should not have it. And the other 20% go to responsible folks. That is a LOT of booze for a very small percent of the population I was wondering what a similar stat would be of all the fast food and junk food consumed and what percentage obese people hold? That's what I was going to say. There is only ONE person I actually know who doesn't drink (for religious reasons). Almost all others? I have seen it fist hand - at least ONE beer in a year. Maybe if they consider ALL Americans, not just ones of legal age? What's the percentage of kids that can't (or will lie when asked?). I also agree with your other point. Some qualify having one drink a day is someone with a problem. I don't think that's really the case. I think a problem comes if you can't stop. Recently, I probably have a oz of bourbon a night. Maybe double. It's purely for the enjoyment of it, just like if I had a cup of ice cream every night. But if someone took my Bourbon away? There would be ZERO withdraw other than me saying "boy, I sure liked that, but oh well". This whole thread had me thinking of addictions again. I don't envy people that suffer with addictions of any kind. I was reminded again walking through Caesars Palace on Sunday. I can walk by the slots and roulette wheel with ZERO interest in putting a dollar down. Other than the bells and lights, I would barely notice them. I can't imagine how difficult if you had a feeling that you MUST do it for whatever reason. That must suck. |
| 2013-06-26 3:58 PM in reply to: 0 |
Elite 6387 | Subject: RE: AMA classifies obesity as a disease Originally posted by Kido That's what I was going to say. There is only ONE person I actually know who doesn't drink (for religious reasons). Almost all others? I have seen it fist hand - at least ONE beer in a year. Maybe if they consider ALL Americans, not just ones of legal age? What's the percentage of kids that can't (or will lie when asked?). I also agree with your other point. Some qualify having one drink a day is someone with a problem. I don't think that's really the case. I think a problem comes if you can't stop. Recently, I probably have a oz of bourbon a night. Maybe double. It's purely for the enjoyment of it, just like if I had a cup of ice cream every night. But if someone took my Bourbon away? There would be ZERO withdraw other than me saying "boy, I sure liked that, but oh well". This whole thread had me thinking of addictions again. I don't envy people that suffer with addictions of any kind. I was reminded again walking through Caesars Palace on Sunday. I can walk by the slots and roulette wheel with ZERO interest in putting a dollar down. Other than the bells and lights, I would barely notice them. I can't imagine how difficult if you had a feeling that you MUST do it for whatever reason. That must suck. And even I have a hard time sometimes giving something a name for the heck of it... Alcoholisim. We don't say a crack head has Crackisim. We don't call a junkie a Heroinic. When we look at addiction as a whole... then we start really looking at obsession and compulsion. You can be OCD, and not have a substance abuse problem. A gambler, isn't putting a substance in their body, but most certainly has physiological responses to stimulus. Putting a substance in your body does in fact change things. And putting too much food in your body chronically changes things. And there are certainly O/C behaviors going on. But was it an OCD component to begin with.. IDK. Hopefully we will learn more about it as we go and can help people further change behavior that they find harmful. What I do know is that if you can leave a drink on the table when it is time to go, then you don't get it. Edited by powerman 2013-06-26 3:59 PM |
| 2013-06-26 4:20 PM in reply to: chirunner134 |
Sensei Sin City | Subject: RE: AMA classifies obesity as a disease Originally posted by chirunner134 Originally posted by KateTri1 that is simple. BMI over 30. Remember you can be 8% body fat and still be obese. That's actually kind of cool. I am wondering though what the criteria for the actual diagnosis for "obesity" might look like. Incorrect. The Mayo Clinic and World Health Organization both classify obesity is excessive BODY FAT. The BMI is a simple population measure that more often than not identifies people that likely have weight issues. As a population, we are not made up of a bunch of NFL players or body builders. BMI is FAR from the only measure for obesity. It's only a quick and simple initial indicator. From the WHO: What are overweight and obesity?Overweight and obesity are defined as abnormal or excessive fat accumulation that may impair health. Body mass index (BMI) is a simple index of weight-for-height that is commonly used to classify overweight and obesity in adults. It is defined as a person's weight in kilograms divided by the square of his height in meters (kg/m2). The WHO definition is:
BMI provides the most useful population-level measure of overweight and obesity as it is the same for both sexes and for all ages of adults. However, it should be considered a rough guide because it may not correspond to the same degree of fatness in different individuals.
For me? I'm 6'7" and an athlete. My current BMI is 27 and yes, I know I'm overweight. To get to a "normal" BMI, I would need to be 215. Guess what, That's exactly the weight I would love/know I should be for aesthetics/athletics/and health. I don't need the BMI to tell me that. That's purely me getting my BF to a good level (sub 15%). So if I have a healthy body fat level, low and behold, I have an acceptable BMI. I would assume BMI is a pretty good indicator for the general population, knowing there will be plenty of exceptions to this guide. People are smart enough to be able to use a little common sense when using a "guide". If T.O. or Shannon Sharpe or body builder has a BMI of over 30 and someone says "see, BMI is wrong in these cases so it's invalid" is wrong, IMO. There are instances in just about ANYTHING that disprove what's statistically correct... I remember the same kind of arguments when the seat belt law came into effect (yes, I'm that old). People would say, "I know a guy who was thrown from a car before it flew off a cliff or blew up. Not wearing one save his life". Just because there are a few instances where seat belts where "wrong", in general? Using them is the "right" choice. |
| 2013-06-27 10:48 AM in reply to: Kido |
Expert 1951 | Subject: RE: AMA classifies obesity as a disease The AMA has clasified both Alcoholism and obesity as a "disease". Alcoholism is dual classified as both a medical and psychiatric disease. |
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