Birkierunner's (Jim Kelley) General + Long Course Group (OPEN) (Page 10)

Question for the group-

Has anyone done an IM using a Run/Walk strategy for the marathon portion? I am planning on doing this to save my legs and I feel it will provide me with a decent run split after the bike leg. I am not shooting for a sub 12hr finish or anything, just a great first experience and finishing the event in time. I am curious if when training, should I Run/Walk during all of my runs or just my long run?

On Tuesdays, my club meets at a track for speed intervals (which I love) and they have helped me dramatically improve my running and speed. I was thinking of keep doing that workout since my plan calls for runs on Tuesdays but every other run I do, make it a Run/Walk? Yesterday I started my program and did a Run/Walk with a friend for 45 minutes and logged 4.2 miles. I felt really good afterward and I think that we can go faster on the run portion to try and even things out at about 10:00minute/mile. So should I stay with the Run/Walk on all training runs or just the Sunday long run?

Feels good to officially have started my Ironman Training Plan!!!

Matt,

Glad to hear your training has kicked-off! From what I experienced at IMFL a couple years ago, just about everybody does some sort of run/walk during the marathon portion of an IM. It may be by design or perhaps it due to fatigue, but a run/walk marathon is very normal. I've heard two schools of thought about run/walk, and to be fair, they're similar.

1. Run inbetween aid stations and walk the aid stations. After you take in your stuff at the aid station, then run to the next one, walk as you drink and eat, and then run to the next one, etc.

2. Set your watch to a certain plan - like 8 minutes run, 1 min walk and just follow that pattern. Towards the end of the race, I would assume many folks change the intervals to, for ex, 4 min run, 1 min walk, or perhaps even less run. But the idea is that you go into the marathon with a plan and stick to it as long as you can.

And regardless of what strategy you employ, I think walking the hills goes without saying, esp if your goal is to finish, not KQ.

When I did IMFL a couple of years ago, I tried strategy #1, and it went ok. The one problem I found with strategy #1 is that aid stations are not so evenly spaced. This meant that some intervals were longer than others, but it's a decent strategy. They were roughly 1 or 2 miles apart, so the intervals were 8-18 min depending on how fast you're running. (That said, I've registered for Syracuse 70.3 this June, and my stretch goal is to fully run the 1/2 marathon. It probably won't happen given all the hills, but it's a stretch goal. And I have no illusions about running the whole 26.2 at IMMT...I'm def planning on run/walk strategy for IMMT...)

Not sure how the aid stations are set-up at IMMT, but perhaps Jim (or others who have raced IMMT before) can chime in.

In terms of training, I think it's probably a good idea to get you legs used to the change of speed with the run/walk strategy. That said, I would think that you may want to use it only on your weekly long runs, but I'm def no expert. I plan on incorporating more run/walk long runs as we get closer to race day. Right now, I'm still focused on building as big of a base as possible, ie. running only.

I look forward to hearing what everybody else thinks.

I will be in Cancun (Playa DeCarmen) exactly 3 weeks from IM Cabo and am planning on doing my last long ride (6 hours) there. 1st question I have is this a good idea? I assume riding in the heat will prepare me for what to expect on race day. 2nd question is does anyone have any info a how to arrange for a long ride? I'm not adventurous enough to go out 100 miles on my own down there. I found this site http://www.cancun-bike-tours-rentals.com/but was wondering if anyone had any other ideas.

Thanks in advance!

So I just wanted to share an experience I had today while out running.

I was comming down a hill and even though I was on the side walk I was at a point where I needed to cross a street. I was almost acorss when I was almost hit by a distracted driver. I came so close I could feel the heat of the engine as I jumped out of the way.

So if you run outside on the streets please be careful and mindful of drivers. Most of them are good about looking out for runners but all it takes is one to end your running.

Stay safe out there.

I have done something like #1 for both HIMs. The first one was an accident - I was planning to run the whole time but it was just so hot that i couldn't. So i walked all aid stations (which happened to be almost exactly every mile). The second one was better weather and I was in a little better shape for the bike so my legs were fresher. I ran the first 6+ miles, and then walked the aid stations after that.

My friend did something more like #2 for her IM. In training she only did run/walk for her long runs, and she would either do run 1 mi / walk 1 min or run 5 min / walk 1 min. In the race I think she ended up walking more than that, but like you said at least you go in with a plan.

Yes, I"m currently following the 19 week IM plan from this site. Coincidently it calls for a 6 hour ride the exact day I'm going to be in Mexico so timing worked out. Its just that I will not have been out in the heat at all this year up until that point so I wanted to make sure I wasn't hurting myself but doing such a long ride. On my current plan the longest has been 3.5 hours, building up now (I've done two IM's prior so at least my body knows what to expect).

As for the 2nd part "arrange a ride" just wondering if anyone knows of any groups that ride down there so I can tag along.

Steve- You may want to contact your hotel and see if they know of a tri club or a cycling club. You have to be careful in that part of the world. I have a friend in Guatemala (a little more dicey than Mexico but similar issues) and he rarely rides outside and does most of his work on a trainer. It is a bit of an ordeal to set up a ride there, because they have to have security vehicles go with the group.

Matt,
For Ironman Wisconsin last year I ran the entire marathon (because I paced myself well on the bike, I was able to do it). I finished with 4:15 marathon which I was very happy with. And to be honest it is a great feeling passing all the walkers! That being said a run/walk strategy will still get you ahead in the end because it is my belief that most go to hard on the bike and then a lot of people end up walking the majority of the marathon.

Todd

By the way there is a good "seminar" in 4 or 5 parts on You Tube (put on by endurance nation, I think ) that basically describes how saving yourself for the marathon will give you the best IM time.

- Todd

Here is the link to the first one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=topqR_vwc9o

Edited by trei 2014-01-22 7:57 PM

Hey all. Is it too late to join this group? I have Augusta later in the season and still looking for a second 70.3 to sign up for.

Edited by ehernand 2014-01-23 9:34 AM

Hello everyone:

STORY: I have two sprint triathlons under my belt and am excited for more this season! My wife joined a different mentor group and I saw the support she was getting and thought I would try it out myself. I have not always been highly active. I wrestled in high school and was in great shape, and then I went to college. I would exercise during the summers, but not really during the school year. Eventually I had gone from my high school weight of 180 up to 215, and was also doing 12oz curls like it was my job. I started exercising more during the end of my senior year and tried to incorporate it as part of my lifestyle, but I always came back to the standard sedentary lifestyle. Fast forward a couple of years and one of my co-workers started talking about doing a triathlon. This piqued my interest as it could be some kind of inter-department man challenge! I began to research different distances of races and finally decided that the Olympic distance would be a good one, so I started training. Shortly after I started training, I realized that I was more out of shape than I thought and then committed to the sprint distance. Somewhere in the mix of deciding which race to do, it dawned on me: I need to have a GOAL in mind with exercise or I will never stick with it. Once I completed my first two tris this past fall, I was excited for next season! I have also come to the realization that speed, strength, and endurance do not come overnight, but with time and CONSISTENT training.

FAMILY STATUS: Recently married in October 2013 (we are 25)

CURRENT TRAINING: I have been doing light-medium aerobic running/cycling/swimming in the gym while it is cold out, and will need to start a more formal training plan soon.

2014 RACES: I plan on doing the Muncie May Triathlon on May 10th, the Columbus Challenge Olympic Tri on August 9th and the Purdue Boilermaker Half-Marathon on October 18th. I may squeeze another race in there somewhere too but I'm not sure yet.

WEIGHTLOSS: When I met my wife I weighed about 215 and I made my way down to about 200 with exercise and went between 200-210 from there. Once I started training for my tris I was slowly and steadily taking weight off down to about 190 and hovered there for 7 months or so. Since the beginning of the year my wife and I have started NSNG (no sugars, no grains) and I weighed 183.6 lbs this morning. Aside from weight loss, we both want to just live an overall healthy lifestyle instead of trying to go on a "diet" and just make healthy choices in general.

WHY I AM JOINING: I would like to have a resource base available to me for education and encouragement. There is SO much information out there about nutrition, training plans, best practices, etc. and sometimes I wonder if I am doing the right thing. I try to remind myself that as a beginner any exercise is going to help, but I suppose I am just looking for a little direction with my training.

I have something I have been toying with and I want the group's opinion. I have been trying to figure out an iron distance race, but I have a few issues that go with it. I need a race at the end of the season, so I have time to build up my swim. I can't swim with any regularity until Lake Huron melts and gets up to 50 F. Which means May/June depending on the Spring. I don't have a public pool easily available to me. If I get to swim 1x per month between mid-September and May I am doing well. The second thing is I prefer wet suit legal, lack of swimming means I swim like a barge. The upside is since I do 90% of my swims in a large, cold, rough lake, I have no fear of open water.
There is an iron distance race that is semi-convenient for me in mid-August, but it is 3 weeks before a HIM that I have to do. Its in my home town, I am heavily involved in the planning of the event and the city has me as its liaison to the event. Plus, I am literally the only person who lives in my county that does the HIM (plenty of people from here do the spring and a few do the Olympic).
Is 3 weeks enough time to recover between the two races? Mind you I will say that I just want to complete the Iron distance race, but don't believe my BS, when the race starts I will not be able to control myself and I will try to beat people.

So I take it from you sig line that you live in Michigan? If you are looking for a late season IM that is wetsuit legal I would look into IM Florida or IM Arizona. If it does not have to be an IM Branded event, I have heard Beach to Battleship down in NC is a really well run race and its in October. As far as doing the events back to back...Have you done an IM before? I would say doing a HIM 3 weeks after an IM is not ideal as you will still be recovering from the IM but I am no expert so take my opinion for what its worth.

Would it be better to find something in October or November then? Using the HIM as a tune up?

And Yes I live in Northeast Michigan on Lake Huron.

Edited by JBacarella 2014-01-24 10:05 PM

It seems that you guys are generally a more experienced group of triathletes, so I would like to pose this question: From where you are now, what general advice would you give to someone just starting out so that they can be better off in the long term? I aspire to compete in an IM, and be competitive in my age group for shorter races. As an engineer, I tend to over-think things and I keep getting caught up thinking about appropriate training intensities as well as how to train in general. I am planning on starting the 20 week Olympic 3x balanced plan in a couple of months, and it says that for your first year you should only be focused on volume of training not intensity. Would you agree?

Thanks so much Todd, that was really helpful!!! I paced my first "long run" the other day with run/walk at a slightly slower pace then I want to go and it averaged out to 11:28min/mile for the hour. I checked and that boils down to a 5 hour Marathon. If I were able to maintain that pace for the whole Marathon portion, which I think I can, I will be happy with it.

My advice is that you are young like me (29) so take your time...IM is not going anywhere. Is this Olympic going to be your first event? If so, I would say wait a year or two until you get some experience under your belt before tackling an IM. The distance needs to be respected and you should have a firm understanding of training, recovery and nutrition before you start training for an IM (at least in my opinion). I think your question about volume vs. intensity will yield different opinions from different people. If you are just starting out, you want to build your aerobic base and build volume so your body is used to the training load. If you have a good base, you can increase intensity to gain speed.

This will be my 5th year in the sport and I also turn 30 this year so it seemed like natural timing for an IM. The first 3 years of doing triathlons was about learning the sport, having fun, losing weight, maintaining fitness, gaining sport specific knowledge and just general health and nutrition knowledge. Year 4 was the leap to bigger events (HIM) and really getting my mind ready for the training that will be IM. In October, I did my first HIM and I did not prepare for it as well as I should have and some of the reasons for that are I too just got married (September) had a lot of other friends get married so went out of state a lot, had a 2 week honeymoon, missed workouts for wedding things, etc. etc you get the point. The wife and I do not have children and we are going to wait until after the race before we start. I am not an engineer but I have a demanding career with hours that can vary week to week which can also make missing workouts easy. I feel like I am just now finally ready (mentally & physically) to tackle an IM. I am very fortunate that my wife is so supportive of this lifestyle and goal. After all, it was her that got me into triathlons in the first place so I guess she brought this on herself But in all seriousness, we too are in our first year of marriage and there are a lot of things that we want to do, places we want to visit, etc. I sat down with her and we planned out our entire year for 2014 up until race day. She knows when I am doing my trainings, how long they will take and on what days. Talk to your wife about your goal and make sure she is supportive before starting. Make sure you both understand how long of a journey tackling an IM is and how much time it can take to train for it. Do you have 10-20 hours a week over the next 6-9 months to devote to training? If no, then doing one now might not be for you. I would suggest a 2-3 year plan to gain knowledge, establish a base and slowly build from there. Also, take time to see what event you want to do, how your body reacts to different climates, different nutrition, etc. Have there been people who have done an IM from 0 training in 9months to a year? yup but I wouldn't suggest it and I am sure others on hear would echo that its a bad idea. Whatever you decide to do, the people of BT will be here to help you but I think you would greatly benefit from 2 years of shorter distance racing, training and building volume/speed before tackling an IM. I know that the last 4 years have prepped me good and I cant wait to finally finish my 5 year plan by crossing the finish line at IMMT.

Matt, thanks so much for the advice. It's good to hear from someone who is a few years down the road from me! I didn't mean to make it sound like I was wanting to do an IM this season or even next season, I will do a HIM in two years if everything goes to plan. I suppose I just wanted reassurance that I am going about things the right way. I plan on taking my time when it comes to building myself up in preparation for longer events like HIM and IM. Good point about discussing the time commitment with the SO, she definitely needs to support me during the process or it won't go very smoothly. Good luck with your training!

Anytime bud. Sorry, I must have read things wrong because I thought you were talking about doing an IM this year or next. I would say that you are on the right path though when it comes to taking it season by season and progressing every year. Oh an definitely get the blessing from the wife, you will need it