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2007-12-17 12:11 AM
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Subject: RE: TriAya's Group: SHUT like dog on steak, sorry!

ShawnC13 - 2007-12-16 11:54 PM Yanti my runners I have are Pearl Izumi but the bike shoes are Specialized Comp Roads

My bad! They look so much like PI's Vagabonds ... but they are GREAT and it is always important to match.



2007-12-17 3:57 AM
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Subject: RE: TriAya's Group: SHUT like dog on steak, sorry!

BASE BUILDING

As with every aspect of tri training, there are as many different opinions on how to build base as there are coaches, and every athlete is coming in with a different background and needs. These are just the basics and what I’ve found to be areas of consensus in my research, which does mean there are going to be some gross generalizations. Conversely, even for its simplicity, it gets technical/science-y in some places  As always … grain of salt, dig around for yourself, ask questions, etc. Also, I’ve organized the info as best I can, but I realize there are some places it gets messy. Best I can do for an internet forum post written quickly! Finally, feel free to ask specific questions about how this fits into your current level of fitness / training plan / life goals / will you get to heaven (re. tri heaven, only if you do base, I assure you ).

Building a Foundation

As the name suggests, this period of training is the foundation of the endurance athlete’s training cycle, and it mainly consists of long, steady aerobic work of increasing distance. This type of training should make up the majority of your cycle, especially as a beginning triathlete (that includes me). You know how the experienced athletes keep saying, “Just swim bike run, swim bike run …” and that nothing substitutes for time in the disciplines? Absolutely true, for many reasons. Simply, practice makes perfect. You’re training your nervous and muscular systems to respond in the way you want. You’re building strength in the exact ways you need it in order to race tri.

The question is, how exactly does one swim bike run, how much, and when?

The simple answer, as it pertains to base, is that if the most important thing is T.I.T.S. (Time In The … Saddle/Swim/Street), then the way you can SAFELY get the most time in is by doing your workouts at an aerobic level. If you train with heart rate zones of some kind, then you’re looking at approximately 50-75% max, and towards the lower end as you’re just starting out in your training or training season. [Lactate threshold heart rate is a better way to train, but ask me and/or do your own research if you really want details … I don’t want to “zone” out into numbers or areas of intense debate here.] Simply put: do your workouts at a pace where you could carry on a conversation. All your workouts, through the whole workout, during base training.

This is an area of contention. If you PM me (or several of you ask me to post) I will give you my reasons for saying “all workout, each workout.” If you look at the research/information yourself, you will at the very least find that nearly all coaches will say the more of a beginner endurance athlete you are, a) the more of that base should be in aerobic work, and b) the longer of a base period you need.

Let me repeat the most important part: the way you can safely do the most time training is at a lower intensity (aerobic level).

Physical Changes and Benefits

The major effect is that your body learns to use oxygen most efficiently to power your muscles, and the tried-and-true method to doing this is spending a lot of time in aerobic base building. (Cardiovascular fitness is related: basically, your heart—a muscle—has to do a lot less work to deliver oxygen, and aerobic fitness is that your cells, most importantly your muscle cells, can use that oxygen most efficiently). You’ll notice that some of these benefits are similar to those of active-recovery workouts (which are done at the low end of the aerobic zone).

The bottom line is that building a strong aerobic base is the #1 way to increase your athletic performance. If you want to go faster, first, go slower. In base, you gradually becomes faster while you are still putting forth the same amount of effort. Then if you eventually really put a lot of effort in (say, in a race), you will go much faster.

  1. Improves fat metabolism. In aerobic training, your body preferentially uses fat as a fuel source, and the more you do, the more you are training your body to prefer fat for fuel. (Important for weight loss—the lower the intensity, the longer you can go, the more fat you will burn. Simplification, but fairly true). The number of enzymes that help convert fat into energy increase.
  2. Develops slow twitch muscle fibers. These get bigger. They are the muscle fibers that will contract repeatedly without fatiguing (=> endurance).
  3. Increases capillary density. Capillaries are small blood vessels that deliver oxygen to your muscles. The more you have, the longer you can continue to perform (=> endurance). 
  4. Reduces risk of injury. You’re putting a manageable amount of stress on your joints, muscles, and connective tissue so they build up. Obviously, this is good in any case. Also, if/when you eventually introduce higher-intensity training, you will be putting a lot of stress on your body, and you’ll need to have your frame built strong.
  5. Strengthens immune system. As above—good in any case, and higher-intensity straining also stresses the immune system, so it’s good to have it already strong.
  6. More energy.

A) Energy in the sports sense. The number of mitochondria increase: these  structures in the cell produce energy. So => more energy. Important for races!

B) Energy in the layperson sense. You rev your metabolism without taxing your body too much. At most (to borrow a phrase from a friend), the workouts leave you “pleasantly tired.” If you’re getting a lot of training in, it’s important to avoid burnout, and doing the workouts at an aerobic intensity does just that. These workouts give you a sense of well-being instead of “I’m blown out;” they relieve stress and improve your quality of sleep.

C) You recover more easily from these workouts, so you can do more training (or attend to life—pretty important, huh?)

7. Mental improvements. (Will say lots more when I do a significant mental training post. These can’t really be lumped in a separate category, but I wanted this post to make some sense). You can be more relaxed and at ease, practice “meditative” workouts, and the steady rhythm of the workout (as opposed to having to “dig deep” or do intense intervals) lends itself well to mental focus that you’ll need for races. Remember, even “sprint” tris are 1-3 hours long.

Phew! That was a lot. Again, the BOTTOM LINE: building a strong aerobic base is the #1 way to increase your athletic performance, especially for a beginner endurance athlete. In any case, unless you build a strong aerobic base, your body is likely to break down, rather than benefit, from high-intensity training.

Duration of Base Period

The longer, the better. Like, years. Reality check: while the journey is the true reward, we want to do races, too. They motivate us by having something to work toward, something to enjoy, and then something to improve on.

Back to ideal (to help explain why a long base period is so important and makes up so much of the training cycle). This is what Joe Friel (who wrote the BIBLES, after all) has to say about it:

“Endurance implies an aerobic level of exertion … For the novice multisport athlete, endurance is the key to improvement. Emphasize this ability above all others in the first year or two of training … A high level of endurance takes years to mature … Plan on taking months and even years to fully develop endurance, rather than days or weeks.”

If you want to do more intense training, do it. Just build up to it with a proper base (and those in our group who have done a lot of long-distance stuff already have a fairly good base going.) But also know that it will not, in fact, kill you (and may benefit you as a beginner triathlete) to just do base work until it’s time to taper and peak for a race. [Interestingly enough, it’s how nearly every beginning marathon program works.] This way, too, you’re keeping your risk of injury and burnout low.

Many athletes struggle with doing base and staying in it for long periods of time—“I don’t really feel like I’m getting a workout!” What you’re not getting is that intense rush. What you are getting is the most important kind of workout.

I would also say building base is as fun as you want to make it. Remember: run/walk is a type of interval that breaks a workout up, makes it easier, makes it more interesting, lets you work out for longer. Also, as you progress through base, you get fitter, so you can incorporate things like hills or faster swim intervals and still remain aerobic.

Back to the point: so just how many months? If you look at the literature, we’re talking a bare minimum of two months (assuming you’re rebuilding base after having some experience in endurance sports). Again, the longer the better. If you’ve never built a base before or have taken an extended break, three or four months.



Edited by TriAya 2007-12-17 4:00 AM
2007-12-17 11:10 AM
in reply to: #1103187

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Subject: RE: TriAya's Group: SHUT like dog on steak, sorry!
Wow! I have a lot of catching up to do! I was super busy this weekend, but had 2 great training days

Okay - kids aren't a problem for me either. My one and only is 23. I know that I would not be attempting to do this if I had a child at home.

Thanks for the swim tips Beth. I see a few that I'm guilty of, but I've noticed I do them more frequently when I'm tired. I've learned to watch for it, especially #5.

What about using swim "toys." I don't recall seeing any mention of the benefits or detriments. I use a pull buoy to warm up and will use it every now and again during my freestyle when I feel like I'm struggling with the not kicking (which I'm getting better at). I don't use my kickboard anymore though, or if I do I do it on my back only.

I love the swimming portion. It flat wears me out but it brings back some wonderful memories. I hope I don't freak when it comes to OWS, since I've never done that before. Once the water warms back up I'm hoping to OWS once a week, instead of in the pool.

Laura, congrats on your 5K. I can't say that I hate to run, but it's definately hard for me. I'm learning to use it as a fitness guide. The longer I can go without stopping to walk, the better I know I'm getting. Elementary, I know. This week I start the 5/2. I don't think I'll be able to make it to 5K but thanks for the "goal" thought!

'K, I'll post this and read some more and post again later. Gotta work to earn some entry fee money

2007-12-17 11:18 AM
in reply to: #1105653

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Subject: RE: TriAya's Group: SHUT like dog on steak, sorry!
yanti...great information as usual...and this coming from a scantily clad woman running down the third street promenade!!!!

the base buildup will benefit everything. those lsd runs will progress to 30 or 60 minute runs. i have been spending more time on the bike to build my legs and lungs. now i just have to wait for the pool to open in january!!!!

thanks for all of the great info.
2007-12-17 11:24 AM
in reply to: #1105526

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Subject: RE: TriAya's Group: SHUT like dog on steak, sorry!
TriAya - 2007-12-16 9:04 PM

[Guys close your eyes here a minute again]

Ah, who'm I kidding, the guys in this group are all too well acquainted with women's issues, I think!

Sorry, this came up awhile back but it came to mind again with the current poll in Tri Talk ... yes, on the whole, women really are stronger on the first day of menstruation. Lots of evidence to support this. Of course, there are plenty of exceptions. 

I was "lucky" enough to test this theory for nearly every race this year.  Talk about timing.  It never was too much of an issue, and I didn't feel too depleted, and in fact, my first tri, I won the Athena division.  Maybe there's something to it?

2007-12-17 12:26 PM
in reply to: #1106058

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Subject: RE: TriAya's Group: SHUT like dog on steak, sorry!
“Endurance implies an aerobic level of exertion … For the novice multisport athlete, endurance is the key to improvement. Emphasize this ability above all others in the first year or two of training … A high level of endurance takes years to mature … Plan on taking months and even years to fully develop endurance, rather than days or weeks.”


I was so glad to read this. I think this helped me to let go with the fact that I just couldn't "do" it all right now. It's like permission being given to me to take a long time to being "developed" properly. It also made me feel more like I was going to succeed in becoming a triathlete in 2008.


2007-12-17 1:14 PM
in reply to: #1106190

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Subject: RE: TriAya's Group: SHUT like dog on steak, sorry!

MrsUSMC - 2007-12-17 12:26 PM
“Endurance implies an aerobic level of exertion … For the novice multisport athlete, endurance is the key to improvement. Emphasize this ability above all others in the first year or two of training … A high level of endurance takes years to mature … Plan on taking months and even years to fully develop endurance, rather than days or weeks.”
I was so glad to read this. I think this helped me to let go with the fact that I just couldn't "do" it all right now. It's like permission being given to me to take a long time to being "developed" properly. It also made me feel more like I was going to succeed in becoming a triathlete in 2008.

Terri, you are the poster child for why base building at a moderate pace WORKS, and why it's so important. GREAT JOB!!!

2007-12-17 1:55 PM
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Subject: RE: TriAya's Group: SHUT like dog on steak, sorry!
Awwww, thanks! Shhhhh, I'm actually enjoying myself!
2007-12-17 5:37 PM
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Subject: RE: TriAya's Group: SHUT like dog on steak, sorry!
Yanti, thanks for the great info on base-building. I have a couple questions. First, can doing too many races screw up your base building? And second, what is base building in swimming?

With my running, it seems like all I've been doing is base building since I started running, a little over a year ago. And I'm totally fine with that, by the way. I love just going out for runs at an easy pace, and I've already seen pretty big improvements in my times, dropping my easy pace from 10-minute-miles to 9:10-minute-miles (and even the occasional 9-minute-mile). I don't want to stray away from base building because I really get a lot of satisfaction from those workouts, but if I'm constantly training for the next race, does that screw up the base building? I'll be starting a formal training plan in January for a race in April. After that, I haven't decided if I'll train for another oly, or sign up for a couple of fun sprints over the summer. I figure if I do the sprints, I can just focus on more base building and not train specifically for the races (with tapering and whatnot). I'm starting to think that might be the smarter thing to do.

As for swimming, I don't quite get the difference between base building and, well, not-base building. My understanding is that even for beginner swimmers, swims should be broken into drills, intervals, and some endurance training. Right? So what does base building mean?
2007-12-17 5:40 PM
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Subject: RE: TriAya's Group: SHUT like dog on steak, sorry!
I'm feeling like kind of a big slug for taking a couple days off from working out, but I think maybe I needed it. I've slept, like, 10 hours a night for the past three nights and have really been in no mood to run or swim (I've decided to not push the bike this month).

Well, I'll still be able to meet my swim/run goals for the week. So it's not too bad, I guess. I just hate feeling so unmotivated!
2007-12-17 6:38 PM
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Subject: RE: TriAya's Group: SHUT like dog on steak, sorry!

ERIN on BASE BUILDING (Oly tri, beginning swim) 

Fielding - 2007-12-17 5:37 PM First, can doing too many races screw up your base building?

Yes, but note the "reality check" clause in the post. "Too many races" for sure is if you're not getting enough recovery time in between. Treeathlon is March; Battle of the Bay is April; that's just fine!

 With my running, it seems like all I've been doing is base building since I started running, a little over a year ago. And I'm totally fine with that, by the way. I love just going out for runs at an easy pace, and I've already seen pretty big improvements in my times, dropping my easy pace from 10-minute-miles to 9:10-minute-miles (and even the occasional 9-minute-mile). I don't want to stray away from base building because I really get a lot of satisfaction from those workouts, but if I'm constantly training for the next race, does that screw up the base building?

You do have a decent run base built up for sprint tris and short road races; not so much the Oly. Oly is better thought of as a mini-HIM than a sprint-plus. In fact, some parts of the BT Oly training plans call for more volume than the HIM plans, mainly because it's good to have that base. Most of the BT beginner training plans have this caveat:

"This program IS JUST a volume-builder.  If your new to endurance, its recommended to focus on only volume for your first year, the following years you can start adding intensity-specific workouts as you will have a good base.  BUT the following program is easily modified for intensity training."

As you ramp into the Oly training, just pay good attention to your breathing and level of exertion. If you can keep a 9+min/mi as you increase the distance, great! But if you're slowing down on runs or huff-n-puffing, then slow the pace or insert walk breaks. 

I'll be starting a formal training plan in January for a race in April. After that, I haven't decided if I'll train for another oly, or sign up for a couple of fun sprints over the summer. I figure if I do the sprints, I can just focus on more base building and not train specifically for the races (with tapering and whatnot).

Decide after April.

As for swimming, I don't quite get the difference between base building and, well, not-base building. My understanding is that even for beginner swimmers, swims should be broken into drills, intervals, and some endurance training. Right? So what does base building mean?

You are right. Swimming is a different beast. The good news is that, in some sense, base is base (you're making aerobic fitness gains regardless of discipline), and you already have built an adequate aerobic base through running. For one thing, it's pretty hard to jack up your heart rate in swimming unless you're really flailing and sinking. For another, technique FIRST trumps all other considerations. Here's a gross summary/paraphrase of Tom Rodgers (a well-known tri coach and frequent Ironman AG winner):

Swimming is more like playing the piano or swinging a golf club; that's why it's called (rightly) "swim practice" rather than "workout." Water is 1000x denser than air, and look how many thousands of dollars and how much time we spend on aerobars, bikes, positioning, etc. Training for the swim (especially for the beginner) consists of frequency of practice, repetitive drills, and frequent intervals [note from Yanti: you'll build up plenty of endurance doing that, and better to get the technique down before doing long swim sets--otherwise it's like swinging a golf club incorrectly hundreds of times].

Without even taking into account the multiple factors of OWS, our own position in water is a three-dimensional affair (as opposed to running and biking, where you're generally only focusing on two dimensions, and not nearly to the vast degree as swimming). This multidimensionalism requires far more balance, but isn't self-correcting like it is on the run and bike: if you swim incorrectly or are imbalanced, you can repeat it  thousands of times.

Your weight is supported; recovery time within and between practice is less and you can train more often. Your heat dissipates in the water.



2007-12-17 6:39 PM
in reply to: #1106731

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Subject: RE: TriAya's Group: SHUT like dog on steak, sorry!

Fielding - 2007-12-17 5:40 PM I'm feeling like kind of a big slug for taking a couple days off from working out, but I think maybe I needed it. I've slept, like, 10 hours a night for the past three nights and have really been in no mood to run or swim (I've decided to not push the bike this month). Well, I'll still be able to meet my swim/run goals for the week. So it's not too bad, I guess. I just hate feeling so unmotivated!

Looks to me like you are a wise and disciplined athlete by taking rest when you need it.

2007-12-17 7:04 PM
in reply to: #1106792

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Subject: RE: TriAya's Group: SHUT like dog on steak, sorry!
TriAya - 2007-12-17 4:38 PM

As you ramp into the Oly training, just pay good attention to your breathing and level of exertion. If you can keep a 9+min/mi as you increase the distance, great! But if you're slowing down on runs or huff-n-puffing, then slow the pace or insert walk breaks.



Thank you for this. I admit that I struggled with keeping my pace easy for months when I first started really training to run. I felt like if I wasn't exhausted or breathing really hard after every run then I wasn't working hard enough. I've learned that lesson! But I suspect I'll have to learn it all over again as I get into my oly training.

Without even taking into account the multiple factors of OWS, our own position in water is a three-dimensional affair (as opposed to running and biking, where you're generally only focusing on two dimensions, and not nearly to the vast degree as swimming). This multidimensionalism requires far more balance, but isn't self-correcting like it is on the run and bike: if you swim incorrectly or are imbalanced, you can repeat it thousands of times.


Wow! That is a really cool way of looking at swimming, and actually makes me feel better about struggling so much. Three dimensional! No wonder it's taking me so long to figure it out!

Edited by Fielding 2007-12-17 7:05 PM
2007-12-17 7:06 PM
in reply to: #1106795

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Subject: RE: TriAya's Group: SHUT like dog on steak, sorry!
TriAya - 2007-12-17 4:39 PM

Looks to me like you are a wise and disciplined athlete by taking rest when you need it.



Heh. I wise and disciplined athlete who is spending the whole day watching The Blue Lagoon from her couch. I'd forgotten how totally ridiculous this movie is.
2007-12-17 8:23 PM
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Subject: RE: TriAya's Group: SHUT like dog on steak, sorry!
So i was talking to the KID who is my swimming instructor right now on Saturday when i was in the pool about what I should do next. I asked if I should sign up for the same thing again and he said that I shouldn't he said to sign up for a strokes and drills class where they work with you more to perfect things. I was kinda glad to hear that made me feel a bit better. he also said I could sing up for intro to masters but I am not ready for that I looked at some of their workouts and that is just a bit beyond my capabilities right now.

Has anyone used the Total Immersion DVD's and if so what did you think of them?
2007-12-17 9:13 PM
in reply to: #1088776

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Subject: RE: TriAya's Group: SHUT like dog on steak, sorry!
Another question about clip on Aerobars. I am lookin at Profile Design Air Stryke. Anyone use these or have a suggestion as to what and why they use the ones they are using?


2007-12-18 8:35 AM
in reply to: #1107012

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Subject: RE: TriAya's Group: SHUT like dog on steak, sorry!

ShawnC13 - 2007-12-17 10:13 PM Another question about clip on Aerobars. I am lookin at Profile Design Air Stryke. Anyone use these or have a suggestion as to what and why they use the ones they are using?

I'm interested to hear this too!

2007-12-18 1:00 PM
in reply to: #1088776

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Subject: RE: TriAya's Group: SHUT like dog on steak, sorry!

I just typed a big paragraph and my computer locked up and lost all the info, that sucks. With that said her is the short version:

Three months ago when I started swimming I had to rest every 25 to 50 meters. I can now swim up to a mile without stopping. I know that my form is probably not correct but what an improvement on my endurance and distance. After reading all the swim discussion I have come to realize that I may be that golfer that swings away a hundred times and keeps missing the fairway. With that said you have all inspired me to get with a swim coach after the first of the year. Especially since I do not really practice any drills and pretty much keep to continous freestyle. I assumed that was how you built a swimming base and it has worked to this point but after reading everything it is obvious that if I'm to improve I will need experienced guidance.

2007-12-18 1:41 PM
in reply to: #1088776

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Subject: RE: TriAya's Group: SHUT like dog on steak, sorry!
Thank you Hector. It's always nice, while I'm hanging on the side of the pool huffing and puffing, to realize that others have done it before me and it will happen less and less as my endurance builds up
2007-12-18 3:42 PM
in reply to: #1108060

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Subject: RE: TriAya's Group: SHUT like dog on steak, sorry!

MrsUSMC - 2007-12-18 11:41 AM Thank you Hector. It's always nice, while I'm hanging on the side of the pool huffing and puffing, to realize that others have done it before me and it will happen less and less as my endurance builds up

Trust me I know exactly how you feel and something tells me I will experience the same thing again once I start doing drills. If it makes me faster then it will all be worth it.

2007-12-18 3:44 PM
in reply to: #1108292

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Subject: RE: TriAya's Group: SHUT like dog on steak, sorry!
HCS5QA - 2007-12-18 3:42 PM

MrsUSMC - 2007-12-18 11:41 AM Thank you Hector. It's always nice, while I'm hanging on the side of the pool huffing and puffing, to realize that others have done it before me and it will happen less and less as my endurance builds up

Trust me I know exactly how you feel and something tells me I will experience the same thing again once I start doing drills. If it makes me faster then it will all be worth it.

it will indeed! 



2007-12-18 4:09 PM
in reply to: #1108295

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Subject: RE: TriAya's Group: SHUT like dog on steak, sorry!
lastcall2003 - 2007-12-18 1:44 PM
HCS5QA - 2007-12-18 3:42 PM

MrsUSMC - 2007-12-18 11:41 AM Thank you Hector. It's always nice, while I'm hanging on the side of the pool huffing and puffing, to realize that others have done it before me and it will happen less and less as my endurance builds up

Trust me I know exactly how you feel and something tells me I will experience the same thing again once I start doing drills. If it makes me faster then it will all be worth it.

it will indeed! 

Hey beth! Thanks for all the swim tips, believe it or not I am soaking it up. 
2007-12-18 4:17 PM
in reply to: #1108349

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TinkerBeth
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Subject: RE: TriAya's Group: SHUT like dog on steak, sorry!
HCS5QA - 2007-12-18 4:09 PM
lastcall2003 - 2007-12-18 1:44 PM
HCS5QA - 2007-12-18 3:42 PM

MrsUSMC - 2007-12-18 11:41 AM Thank you Hector. It's always nice, while I'm hanging on the side of the pool huffing and puffing, to realize that others have done it before me and it will happen less and less as my endurance builds up

Trust me I know exactly how you feel and something tells me I will experience the same thing again once I start doing drills. If it makes me faster then it will all be worth it.

it will indeed! 

Hey beth! Thanks for all the swim tips, believe it or not I am soaking it up. 

You're welcome!  I'm glad they are helping - I'll be posting some more soon

(soon being in the next couple of days, I'm a little under the weather today )

2007-12-18 4:19 PM
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Subject: RE: TriAya's Group: SHUT like dog on steak, sorry!
HCS5QA - 2007-12-18 3:42 PM

MrsUSMC - 2007-12-18 11:41 AM Thank you Hector. It's always nice, while I'm hanging on the side of the pool huffing and puffing, to realize that others have done it before me and it will happen less and less as my endurance builds up

Trust me I know exactly how you feel and something tells me I will experience the same thing again once I start doing drills. If it makes me faster then it will all be worth it.

It just takes time - the focus on technique will really help.  I think it's great that you are going to seek out a coach

swimming can be very difficult to try and figure out on your own - the in person feedback is very valuable



Edited by lastcall2003 2007-12-18 4:20 PM
2007-12-18 6:57 PM
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Victoria BC
Subject: RE: TriAya's Group: SHUT like dog on steak, sorry!
Sorry to hear you are under the weather. Do you recommend trying the Total Immersion DVD? or just go and get a coach?
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