Manatee Mentors 2015.2 CLOSED (Poptarts? Pet pics?) (Page 100)

As the father of 2 and the husband of one, I feel for you.  

Actually, my race this weekend is 2 separate, gender specific races. I feel bad for the women starting an hour later then the guys.  So, my question back to you is simple. How do we fix it?  What it comes down to (given the 2 minutes that I have pondered this) is to simply do away with OA awards and have Female/Male OA's, just like we have female and male age groups.  I'm sure there would be more to it, but what am I missing?

Ha!  I'd very quickly look like a speed bump Manatee if I wore that thing at the PPA or IM Boulder in August when it's 90*.  Nope.  Sorry.  Not happening.  I'm thinking something more along the line of a manatee t-shirt like this or this, sombrero covered with little stuffed manatees and some maracas with manatee pictures.  In other words, something in which I can breathe and not pass out from the heat.

I just really like the fact that Wonder Womanatee is carrying the Golden Lasso!  Evidently, they were after accuracy in the costume making. Because what is more accurate than a mashup of two completely different worlds?!?!  Who comes up with this stuff?

Yeah...good question. It's something I am pondering myself. 

I like the idea you proposed of Female/Male OA. At least upon first consideration. 

Another piece that is...errr...challenging is the time differences. I was reading about some of those trail races when the women are finishing an hour behind the men and all of the crowd/sponsors/post race festivities have long since gone home. Boy...we all talk about the atmosphere of races. Imagining finishing an ultra into a ghost town.

People like to take jabs on the WNBA and women's soccer and claim it's "boring" but I just feel that you have to look at women's sports through their own lens and not try and compare it to mens. There is something uniquely special about the way women play their sport. I wish more could see that.

I do realize life is not fair.  And I am proud to be a female! But there are challenges like this.

Oh, and thanks Chris, for asking! 

I felt this as a youngster (though I never did any cojones kicking...on purpose). 8th grade definitely changed the girl/boy athletic dynamics I had been used to being at the top of. High school even more so. 

And I feel it for raising Mak. She won't hear "for a girl" or "like a girl" from me, and I will correct anyone I hear say it to her. I even had issues with the recent "Like a girl" ad campaign. Trying to turn a negative connotation into a positive...I get it. But it still didn't sit well. Why not "Like an athlete"?

She wrapped it up nicely, I think, though. Running has an equal "playing field" where men and women compete alongside each other. That is awesome as a sport.

No, thanks for posting, as it will be on my mind on Sunday and I'll make sure I stick around for the women's finish.

As for the WNBA, I consider myself a BBall purist, and love the game before it became Drive, Travel, Dunk, Foul.  So I'll gladly watch a WNBA game, but can't watch the NBA at all.

I think the conversation needs to start at a grass roots level and work it's way up, as well as at a larger, corporate sponsor level and work it's way down. One of the things that is challenging is to have the conversation not become devisive, ie "we want our own race and you're not allowed" along the lines of the child taking his ball and going home. The whole thing plays out as part of the much larger gender equality discussion that has been ongoing for far too long in society. I think we've come a long way, but we still have a long way to go.

And I'll get off my soapbox now.

For anybody looking for a quick boost of energy, why not try this?

You could either have an icing shot or a slice of dry-old German chocolate cake. (Brought to you by cakewrecks.com)

I like how many of the major marathons handle the starts, at least for the pro's.  Women start a few minutes before the men and they finish at about the same time. 

The "2nd class-ness" of women's athletics runs deep. I remember last year when Meb won Boston and the announcers kept saying that an American hadn't won since 1983. Um no. That would be Lisa Rainsberger in 1985.

^^^^ This.  To be totally honest, I never even thought about it.  I see your posts, Adrienne, about being X overall (M and F) and think "Holy carp".  I'm just not in that category.  But I agree with your points on women sports in general.  The FIFA World Cup is here in Vancouver and I am sure that you will be able to buy tickets right up until game time for many of the games.  Mens World Cup--not so much.  There are definitely differences between men's and women's sports, but I agree that they have to be looked upon seperately.  Both are exciting to watch, if for different reasons.

Adrienne, I'm not picking on you, but the discussion needs to come from a different angle(or better yet, many angles), because so few of us can relate to your experience.  The discussion has to be relatable to all, or at least have a different piece that all relate to.  As a father, I want my girls to have every opportunity in life that I had and more.  As a high end racer, you want to have every opportunity in races that others have.  As a mother, Erin wants something else, and so on for everyone in this group and beyond.  The joy for me in the discussion is that there are soooo many different ways to look at it, but in the end, most of us are after the same thing.  A level playing field throughout.

OK, now I'm off my soapbox. LOL

Why are things gendered instead of leveled? Money? Gendering is just a form of leveling? I guess I mean this for sports overall. EVERY male in his sport in not better than EVERY female in the same sport, or would people disagree? Why not have the best of the best competing with each other no matter gender? Not enough women as strong/fast to make it worth their while to attempt "competing" with the men? (Thinking "aloud" thoughts I've thunk before)

Yeah, excellent point. 

I was rather specific in my complaint when it really is the surface of a much bigger issue. Interestingly I was just reading about the guys losing their sh*t over Fury Road LOL 

http://www.themarysue.com/mra-to-the-max/

Didn't you see, I'm off my soapbox 

I don't know why (actually, it is a cultural and historical thing), but I think it is our responsibility to fix that.

Okay, now Erins question has me thinking.  Will the playing field ever be level?  The fastest man will always be faster than the fastest woman.  If, one day, it is decided that there should be no gender-ing to sport, will many women not then complain that "It is not fair, we can never win'?  Not trying to stir the pot, just thinking out loud.

I don't think the playing field will ever be level. I can't imagine that our bodies will be motivated to adapt in a way that does so. Do you?

Funny!

I don't know much about the new Mad Max but I'm pretty sure Sarah Connor became a badazz about 3 Terminators ago.

Hmmm, so, what would this mean?

No snarkyness, just curious.

We have levels or I guess, groups in my running club. It makes sense, we should be grouped with people who run the same paces.

There are no females in level 1 or 2.

Now I edited my question for more thought. lol  Get back on that box!

The best of the best will always boil down to straight competition, no "handicap" per se.  As soon as you start making allowances for gender, age, speed, color of eyes  then you will always have an asterisk. Racing, either standalone run or triathlon, lends itself to being more easily compared between men and women. The top female soccer player, for instance, cannot as easily be compared to the top male soccer player because of team dynamics, team standings etc.

There are sports like auto racing where women are competative, although they are still a minority.

And, of course, we have the Battle of the Sexes between King and Riggs.

No, and that's my point.  Perhaps it needs to be not about separating genders as much about respecting and appreciating both.  I really liked what Lauren Fleischman wrote.  And the "Like a Girl" campaign said that to me--we have to stop bashing/segregating/disrespecting genders.  "Boys will be boys" instead of holding them accountable--why should they be held to a different standard in matters that should be equal.  "Like a girl"--yes, I do run/throw/whatever like a girl.  And I am proud of it.  Masters swimming, as your run club--we are divided into abilities, not genders.  Respect for both genders--for their individual abilities, strengths.  I'm rambling, and I know it.  I don't know what the answer is, except respect for all.

Ah, now we're moving! I think it is important that we define "level". Is it the same speed? The same size? The same strength? The same pay? Yes, I threw that one in to mess the whole discussion up.  Because each of wants a different "level."  While some are speaking of sport, others are speaking career, while still others are mulling over life choices.  

For the sake of a sport based discussion, I think we have to realize that "level" does not mean the same speed, strength or size.  For me, "level" means the same opportunity, be it to race, to train, or to simply participate.  First, remove the gender barriers that take away the opportunity to participate, as well as the socio-economic barriers. We have to develop a sense of self worth within all of our young people so that they feel as though they can go out and do whatever they are gifted to do in life. That falls on the shoulders of not only the Matt's and Erin's of the world, but the aunts, uncles, the sisters and brothers and so on and so on.

Evidently, you've riled me up! 

Going back to my original "complaint" I think just overall awards for female and male solve my issues. Then they are basically two respective races, run at the same time.

And then handle the longer races the way most marathon majors do with a staggered start so that the finishes are pretty close.

Those two things solve a lot of the "issues"

Maybe---you register into a race with a PR, not an age.  You compete against others who have similar abilities.

You win. 

And I absolutely love this group. Thank you all for the discussion, this is another one of these that will be stuck in my head for a while. A long while.

I think most races I've done have awards for OA male and OA female and then age group. The only place I've seen them lumped together, perhaps, is in the results where they sometimes mix genders. I may be simpliying or misunderstanding your use of the term awards.