swbkrun with us!!! - Closed (Page 104)

fowlmood - 2011-02-14 9:59 AM

Stomach doesn't bother me when I run. I think what is happening is I am depleting my energy on these long runs so technically I am finishing the run on fumes. I got the ride figured out so now I need to figure out the run to maintain energy.

fattyfatfat - 2011-02-14 11:49 AM Those that i talk with offline have pretty good idea of where I stand on training with power.  So maybe I should say something up here as it *may* seem like I think its a joke.  I don't.  Not even close. 

It can be a great tool if understood and used properly.  It may be an even better tool if you spend some time getting to know your body first then incorporating some sort of power into your training.  I've read some comments posted up here that if the powertap failed in a race they wouldn't know what to do.  wow.

and you can call this pot stirring or BS or whatever you want.  its not intended to be.  advice from people making claims about what power can do for you at a certain distance without ever having trained and raced that distance may not be the most accurate.  we can all discount, choose to listen too or not, etc...as has been stated.  but since this is a beginner site there's a good chance that many people may not know how to discount it or not listen to it.  and when you get into something that to many may be pretty technical this really becomes an issue.  sometimes the job of a mentor is to help the mentee's parse out the data.

and i agree with dino... it doesn't have to be expensive.   

edit... and for heavens sake... which ever route you choose.  HAVE FUN!!!!

AMEN!

peterday - 2011-02-14 11:54 AM I picked up a copy of Science of Triathlon yesterday and i got quite alot out of it.  It has several presenters like Joe Friel talking about sports psychology, form in all three disciplines, and nutrition.  I would suggest it for beginners such as myself but maybe not for most of you.  Many of you seem quite experienced and have probably heard all or most of this from your various coaches over the years.  But considering i have yet to race any distance of triathlon and only one 5k race thus far, this was a world of knowledge.   Using some of the running tips i tried to incorperate them into my run today.  This bring me to todays workout.

Today i was supposed to do a 35 minute run so i used the small track in the gym (it's still a bit too cold up here to go outside without my lungs freezing up on me with my asthma).   I always thought that i was supposed to be a poor runner.  I am 6'5", 280pounds and losing the weight slowly.  I just accepted that i would run like a juggernaught lumbering down the street.  I was suprised that i could change the way i ran, it has definitely made my day. 

Before i would heel strike, now its more on the ball of my foot,
Before i had a long stride with a lot of time rolling off my foot, now i lift my feet.
Before i didn't know about cadence for running, now i count my right foot (20 times per 15 sec, i couldn't get it any faster).  In the video Joe commented on Kenyan marathon runners with a cadence of 96 plus or minus 2 per minute or 24 every 15 sec.
Before i would run with a completly upright posture, now my back is still streight but leaning forward stightly. 

My form of course still isn't perfect but i noticed a certain flow that was never there before as well as increased speed.  I wasn't running continuously either.  I would run 15 sec and count for cadence and then walk for a minute.  I did it 20 times and i felt quite tired but good.  Also i think i was coming down to hard on the ball of my foot as i was getting a pain mid foot around my cuniform and navicular bones. 

Anyway, i just wanted to share that with all of you, maybe the video can help some of you. 

peterday - 2011-02-14 11:54 AM I picked up a copy of Science of Triathlon yesterday and i got quite alot out of it.  It has several presenters like Joe Friel talking about sports psychology, form in all three disciplines, and nutrition.  I would suggest it for beginners such as myself but maybe not for most of you.  Many of you seem quite experienced and have probably heard all or most of this from your various coaches over the years.  But considering i have yet to race any distance of triathlon and only one 5k race thus far, this was a world of knowledge.   Using some of the running tips i tried to incorperate them into my run today.  This bring me to todays workout.

Today i was supposed to do a 35 minute run so i used the small track in the gym (it's still a bit too cold up here to go outside without my lungs freezing up on me with my asthma).   I always thought that i was supposed to be a poor runner.  I am 6'5", 280pounds and losing the weight slowly.  I just accepted that i would run like a juggernaught lumbering down the street.  I was suprised that i could change the way i ran, it has definitely made my day. 

Before i would heel strike, now its more on the ball of my foot,
Before i had a long stride with a lot of time rolling off my foot, now i lift my feet.
Before i didn't know about cadence for running, now i count my right foot (20 times per 15 sec, i couldn't get it any faster).  In the video Joe commented on Kenyan marathon runners with a cadence of 96 plus or minus 2 per minute or 24 every 15 sec.
Before i would run with a completly upright posture, now my back is still streight but leaning forward stightly. 

My form of course still isn't perfect but i noticed a certain flow that was never there before as well as increased speed.  I wasn't running continuously either.  I would run 15 sec and count for cadence and then walk for a minute.  I did it 20 times and i felt quite tired but good.  Also i think i was coming down to hard on the ball of my foot as i was getting a pain mid foot around my cuniform and navicular bones. 

Anyway, i just wanted to share that with all of you, maybe the video can help some of you. 

dalessit - 2011-02-14 9:57 AM Didn't get a chance to jump into all the gear discussion this weekend.

My final take on all of it.

If you want to get faster the best way is to train more.  I don't think any of us here have hit our max potential in Triathlon, there are some that probably are pretty close if not already there in either running, biking or swimming, but not in all three.  So you're always going to benefit from getting out there and doing it.

If having a powertap, nice training wheels, runnnig with an ipod, training with no electronics, twinkie on a stick out in front of you, whatever, helps you to get out there and train, if you can afford it, do it. 

I do this as a hobby, I enjoy playing with numbers, electronics, obsessing over bike parts, shoes, reading numerous posts on position, which water bottle setup is most aero, etc.  It makes me happy, and keeps me motivated to get out there and train.

People ask for my opinion on parts, going faster, etc, i'm going to give my opinion, some of it is from personal experience, some from reading, in the end it's my forumlated opinion. 

I am not an expert in much of anything so take my advice for what it's worth.  I listen to what everyone else here and other sites has to say, some of it I agree with and try to incorporate in my training, some I agree with and store it away for future use, and some of it I completely ignore. 

I hope that is what everyone else does with my opinions or anyone elses, take what you want, leave the rest, that's why we do this mentor group, everyone has cool, unique experiences, even the folks just starting out, so don't be afraid to chime in on questions.

So from me, with respect to biking (if it's in your budget), to make your bike faster or to use less energy on the bike and have more for the run, do this stuff.

1. Get those race wheels, they'll probably make you faster than what you're riding now, the deeper the better, but deeper front will make bike control tougher in the wind.

2. Pay attention to what kind of tires and tubes you put on them, they matter, and it's very little expense. 

3. Get an aero helmet and use it in #4 to make sure you have the right kind.

4. Get a good bike fit, make sure you're comfortable enough to ride the distances while trying not to be a parachute in the wind. 

5. Training and racing with a power meter is the bomb, gives you great feedback and helps you keep yourself in check, if your zones are correct you shouldn't have to worry about HR, if you are in HR Z5 but Power Z3, either your power or HR zones are wrong.

6. put a wheel cover on the back, it will make you faster and not compromise handling.

7. EDIT: Style matters, make sure you stuff matches.  If you can't be fast, at least look fast.

Do you NEED to do any of this stuff, NO, I can do a triathlon on a beach crusier, wearing a speedo and flip flops but besides being a scary sight it wouldn't be nearly as much fun to ME.

fowlmood - 2011-02-14 9:59 AM

Stomach doesn't bother me when I run. I think what is happening is I am depleting my energy on these long runs so technically I am finishing the run on fumes. I got the ride figured out so now I need to figure out the run to maintain energy.

Plainsman AU - 2011-02-14 3:08 PM Training question:

Ok, so I am on Don Finks program and using it for my may HIM.  When I started, I picked it up on week 8 and will follow it until my race.  My question is how do some of you guys feel about following it "closely"?

For instance today is supposed to be a rest day, but I will probably be traveling on wednesday and miss that day or have to move some stuff around.  Does shuffling these workouts around while still trying to get in the volume and long workouts accomplish the goal? 

velcromom - 2011-02-14 3:13 PM   
and I'm working on a better story)

fattyfatfat - 2011-02-14 12:45 PM

attached is Fink's Competitive program for those that want to peruse it.  Not sure if you are using the intermediate or competitive program.  not the just finish, i assume (HOPE)

while Fink's book is Ironman based,  its a good source for all sorts of triathlon information.   Here's the Amazon link if interested.


I'm heading into week 17 of the IM program and have been shuffling things around with the kiddos schedules, especially the Thurs-Sunday work outs.  I try to follow it as closely as possible but its just not possible.  He talks about this in Chapter 5, Principles of Gradual Adaptation.  i was all over the road, literally sometimes)with the move to georgia for augusta 70.3 training and that race turned out ok.  do what you can, don't try to make up a bunch of missed workouts and you'll do great. 

obviously i have nothing to compare the im training to, but i'm enjoying it more than any other race yet.  and i think part of this has to do with Fink's book. 

suzy reviewed that excel file for me a few months back had some good comments.  i'll see if i can find them and send it to you.  

kkcbelle - 2011-02-14 4:12 PM

Good comments, Fats. Anxious to check out the file later.

As one over-the-top anal/OCD person when it comes to training plans, I am trying SOOOOO HARD to be more flexible this go-around. I do what works when it works and so far, it's all good. The one thing I do try to be mindful of is allowing 24 hours (if possible!) in between high-intensity efforts. For example, I wouldn't do an interval track workout one afternoon and then turn around and do an interval trainer workout in the morning. I try to train in the morning most of the time, so this is rarely an issue. But I would just suggest that if you get into something where you have an intense workout planned one afternoon/evening, and plan to do something the next morning, try to make sure the next morning's is more of a low-level workout -- otherwise your body isn't recovered, nutrition stores are not replenished, and you're at a higher risk of injury. Hope that makes sense. The coach I worked with last year had me doing that, so it's something I'm mindful of as I work on my own now.

fowlmood - 2011-02-13 3:59 PM
The weekend workouts are done.

Temp 68, Hum 24%, Wind 5mph NNE

" However I am glad my legs were not that sore and could probably handle more it was the bottom of my feet that hurt mainly the balls."

 

SSMinnow - 2011-02-14 11:54 AM 
Hey, a voice from the past....nice of you to pop in....did you mean to post a video?

There are a few of us that have worked on our strikes this year.  It took me months to get it and it wasn't without many setbacks including a hamstring injury.  I am now a midfoot (not forefoot) striker with a cadence of around 198 (both feet, 60 seconds).  The key for me was the lean....it really should be done from the hips.  I did not understand that for the longest time.  To get it, my PT had me forward lean and open up my hips and run in place so I could get the correct posture and then take off....I do this everytime I start to run.  One other thing, you should feel your whole foot coming down and landing (not just the ball of the foot) and it is quick and smooth when you've got it right.  I do find for me the less heel build up I have the easier it is to do correctly.  I don't have a fancy minimalist shoe. I run in Brooks Launch and they work for me.

My two cents anyway....

dalessit - 2011-02-14 3:45 PM

I agree, sometimes you just have to move things around to get it all in, but when you have to, try to not stack up your hard workouts one after another (unless the plan calls for it).

Plainsman AU - 2011-02-14 3:04 PM

Thanks for the input.  I think I may have just come up with a good solution while getting my run in a few minutes ago.  His plans call for mondays to be a rest day.  Mondays are a good day for me to train, so I will move everything up a day and start on Mondays, so if I have a day slip up that I don't get it in because of travel etc, then i can use that as an unscheduled rest day and pick up at that point.

On a funny note, I was 1.5 miles into my run and just singing to myself when I realized that I had my ear buds in and had not even turned my ipod on.

kkcbelle - 2011-02-14 4:12 PM

I am trying SOOOOO HARD to be more flexible...

CyborgQueen - 2011-02-14 4:01 PM

I need to learn how to run "right" in form speak I mean.  It's really odd to see a lot of people saying they're heel strikers. I'm a midfoot striker all the way. I think because when I started to learn how to run (last year), I've learned that midfoot striking is better. It only took me two days to figure that out, and since then it has come naturally for me.  Form could be a little better as well as speed.   Suzy - do you think you have higher cadence because of your height? I find that I can't do "long strides" without heel striking and basically leaping. Does that mean I need to increase my cadence to get faster? I feel like I'm always jogging, and at least it looks like I'm jogging...is that form or cadence issue?  Just picking on your thoughts...:-)