Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread (Page 107)
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Dream Chaser - 2010-04-19 7:01 PM Oh, almost forgot: I thought of an awesome, totally unoriginal way they can make the Swim Start safer. Color-coded caps according to your swim pace. Very simply, on Race Day (or via e-mail prior) everyone must show a Swim time within the last 2 years for HIM or IM event, and according to that time, within 10 to 15 second intervals, you get a colored cap. Then on Race morning, a few guys on surfboards make sure that everyone with a cap is correctly in line. This way the 1:20's, 1:30's, 1:40's and so on are all together. I'm thinking of sending the idea to the Race Director. Thumbs up or down? great idea in theory. however my bet is close to half the field has never done a half or full. and 50% of those that have would figure out how to lie about their seeding.........Ive only done one half myself, and the one I did last year was a last minute thing....27 minutes, but the swim was short, so I get an advantage perhaps over someones legit 29 minutes also, to be honest, im not sure I would want it to change. the mass start is something unique to IM. yeah, I'm saying this having never done it, and I expect it to be rough. but to me, the unknown of the mass swim start and all I have heard has added excitement for me....not knowing what to expect. also, has there been a tragic event that warrants a change at LP compared to other events? It seems to me, keeping in mind I understand my opinion could easily change after Ive actualy done it, changing the swim format at IMLP would only make it more comfortable.....more safe, Im not so sure...... just my thoughts Edited by cusetri 2010-04-20 5:09 AM |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Today my Garmin actually came apart during a ride. It's been turning off randomly for a week now then stopped turning on at all. Today it turned on then off so I left it on my bike. As I went onto the base I sat up and noticed the face of my Garmin was off. Luckily it stuck to the pad but it has not turned on since. It's 3 years old but never been abused so it sucks. Now I need a new one so here is my question. Does anyone have a Garmin 310xt? You think it's worth the money or should I just get another 305 for half the price? I'll look up the other threads on the subject but we all know that the IMLP folks are the smartest out there. Thanks, |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() By the way for all of you with private logs, when are you going to let me in? |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() PennState - 2010-04-20 6:29 AM To answer one question, no there has not been a tragedy at LP in recent years. However there have been at other mdot events, most recently Florida where there have been disasters in the mass swim start. I'm actually surprised at the fact that people think a mass swim start would be a good thing. Oh well. dont get me wrong, and really my opinion doesnt count for anything until I actually do it. but, you'd be surprised at how many people think an IM in general is not a good thing, not even considering the specific set up of each leg. Yet here we all are. ![]() |
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![]() Monty - 2010-04-19 9:51 PM Dream Chaser - 2010-04-19 7:01 PM DC...I like in theory, but maybe not in practicallity. The one thing I have noticed is the swim is probably the hardest part to measure for both a race director and the USAT official. I have swum HIMs as low as 29min and has high as 35min in the same season. Current, chop, and distance issues (along with the length of distance from swim exit to the transition area which can be huge in some events and short in others) can cause significant differences. Someone's 40 min swim in one event could be the same as a 30 min swim for someone else in a different event. Kind of like comparing the bike at Eagleman to the bike at Black Bear and using that to seed people. Just a thought.Oh, almost forgot: I thought of an awesome, totally unoriginal way they can make the Swim Start safer. Color-coded caps according to your swim pace. Very simply, on Race Day (or via e-mail prior) everyone must show a Swim time within the last 2 years for HIM or IM event, and according to that time, within 10 to 15 second intervals, you get a colored cap. Then on Race morning, a few guys on surfboards make sure that everyone with a cap is correctly in line. This way the 1:20's, 1:30's, 1:40's and so on are all together. I'm thinking of sending the idea to the Race Director. Thumbs up or down? I clearly see what you are saying, but still (for the most part) it would generally keep the faster swimmers up front and slower swimmers toward the back. |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() cusetri - 2010-04-20 7:37 AM dont get me wrong, and really my opinion doesnt count for anything until I actually do it. but, you'd be surprised at how many people think an IM in general is not a good thing, not even considering the specific set up of each leg. Yet here we all are. ![]() Hey Mike, Care to elaborate? Like are these general people that “we” work with, that thinks it’s crazy going these distances, or like doctors saying medical all the stress type of thing? Could it be some sort of safety issue having 2000+ athletes crammed into a small course? Just looking for insight; the only thing I have every heard was like coworkers saying I was crazy going these distances. But hey that is what training is for!!!! Not like I got off the couch and did a Ironman. Yep there’re some that have and WITH minimal training. There was a guy here on BT that did IMLP 08’ with so minimal training that I wouldn’t have even attempted to do a sprint let alone an Ironman. |
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great idea in theory. however my bet is close to half the field has never done a half or full. also, has there been a tragic event that warrants a change at LP compared to other events? just my thoughts Really? You think half the field have never done a full or a half before!! If that's true, that's freaking scary! also, I'm hoping they do something to make the mass swim start safer at LP BEFORE there is a tragedy -- especially with the huge influx in starting participants. That would make it a very sad say; instead of the joyous - triumphant day it should be. To your other point, I agree that a mass swim start is exciting, and I don't believe they have to change from that format of a 'mass start', but perhaps an attempt at seeding people properly will lessen the chance of tragedy. Regardless, I'm starting to the far right. I'd rather swim an extra 200 meters the first lap and be safe. Edited by Dream Chaser 2010-04-20 7:00 AM |
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![]() PennState - 2010-04-20 7:59 AM To be clear, I would like the swim to improve. How can we in a positive fashion do this? Ie; without freaking people out? Just like at a Marathon: Get a past Swim time for a long distance race and Seed Swimmers. Will it be perfect or flawless, No. But will it perhaps prevent a needless tragedy due to inexperience and overexuberance. Quite possibly. As you mentioned Fred, they do this at Ironman Australia. Also, perhaps, a pre-Race 20-minute continually running class on Ironman Safety. A speaker could outline the importance of hydration, Swim safety and Bike safety. Some simple tips would enlighten many a novice and perhaps even remind some veterans and more experienced triathletes. |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() PennState - 2010-04-20 7:49 AM cusetri - 2010-04-20 7:37 AM I guess your right. My question is do we need a tragedy to be the starting event to make any meaningful change to the swim format or can wtc try to make changes before that tragedy occurs? I'm a pretty fearless guy Mike, but the swim needs a change in format for safety. Just my worthless opinion.PennState - 2010-04-20 6:29 AM To answer one question, no there has not been a tragedy at LP in recent years. However there have been at other mdot events, most recently Florida where there have been disasters in the mass swim start. I'm actually surprised at the fact that people think a mass swim start would be a good thing. Oh well. dont get me wrong, and really my opinion doesnt count for anything until I actually do it. but, you'd be surprised at how many people think an IM in general is not a good thing, not even considering the specific set up of each leg. Yet here we all are. ![]() In my simple onion is its all perception. My experience is just mine. Jenn had a wonderful time in the mix. The way perception changes is in the size of the tragedy. I mean it’s safer to fly in a plane than cross the road by the stats, right, go down in a plane and see who’s on the news. 100 of thousands have swum Ironman swims and a handful of tragedy. Of those how many were true drowning? |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() PennState - 2010-04-20 7:59 AM To be clear, I would like the swim to improve. How can we in a positive fashion do this? Ie; without freaking people out? The swim is safe! ![]() |
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Expert![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I don't see a problem with the mass start. Everyone is on an even keel. No doubt people would "fluff" their numbers if it was a seeded start. Lots of them would end up getting run over anyway just like they do now. A logical person would set themselves up accordingly at the start with their perceived swimming ability. Only an idiot would set up in pole position at the front and on the buoy line when they know they will be swimming a 1:20. As it turns out, there are plenty of idiots out there. If they get run over, shame on them for being foolish. If you don't like contact, stay right or wade in at the start. It ain't that hard, and in an event such as an IM where all participants put in massive amounts of training and research just to get to the starting line, it should not be a revelation. Taper madness, excitement for the race start, and edgy nerves can throw logical thought and a plan in to the wind, though, which can account for some of the chaos. The rest is just people lying to themselves about their abilities. Edited by thelunchbox 2010-04-20 7:54 AM |
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Expert![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Also, perhaps, a pre-Race 20-minute continually running class on Ironman Safety. A speaker could outline the importance of hydration, Swim safety and Bike safety. Some simple tips would enlighten many a novice and perhaps even remind some veterans and more experienced triathletes. What did they say at the last pre-race meeting? EXACTLY! Nobody pays attention at those things, at least those that need to hear it most. They are too busy fiddling with gear, talking about said gear, or commenting on how they are going to tear the course up to listen up and maybe catch a pointer. This is not everyone, but will most likely encompass the group of people who end up f@#$ing up. 3,000 Type-A personalities thrown in to a mass start is what it is. While what IM does is not perfect, they can't force people to read the rules, listen, and adequately prepare.
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Extreme Veteran![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I like the idea of a seeded swim start. It can't hurt to send it to the race director! I will be proudly riding my triple chainring up those hills, on my retro steel bike. ![]() And I am ready, willing and able for the May swim challenge! |
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![]() thelunchbox - 2010-04-20 9:03 AM Also, perhaps, a pre-Race 20-minute continually running class on Ironman Safety. A speaker could outline the importance of hydration, Swim safety and Bike safety. Some simple tips would enlighten many a novice and perhaps even remind some veterans and more experienced triathletes. What did they say at the last pre-race meeting? EXACTLY! Nobody pays attention at those things, at least those that need to hear it most. They are too busy fiddling with gear, talking about said gear, or commenting on how they are going to tear the course up to listen up and maybe catch a pointer. This is not everyone, but will most likely encompass the group of people who end up f@#$ing up. 3,000 Type-A personalities thrown in to a mass start is what it is. While what IM does is not perfect, they can't force people to read the rules, listen, and adequately prepare.
Get off the computer and onto your bike, Charles!!! |
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Champion![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() The deaths which have occured during Ironman swims were not a result of the mass start format. They were a result of pre-existing cardiac conditions manifesting themselves at the worst possible time, when you are face down in the water. The worst thing that happens with the mass start is a kick to the face that can end your day but not your life. Edited by bryancd 2010-04-20 8:41 AM |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() PennState - 2010-04-20 7:49 AM cusetri - 2010-04-20 7:37 AM I guess your right. My question is do we need a tragedy to be the starting event to make any meaningful change to the swim format or can wtc try to make changes before that tragedy occurs? I'm a pretty fearless guy Mike, but the swim needs a change in format for safety. Just my worthless opinion.PennState - 2010-04-20 6:29 AM To answer one question, no there has not been a tragedy at LP in recent years. However there have been at other mdot events, most recently Florida where there have been disasters in the mass swim start. I'm actually surprised at the fact that people think a mass swim start would be a good thing. Oh well. dont get me wrong, and really my opinion doesnt count for anything until I actually do it. but, you'd be surprised at how many people think an IM in general is not a good thing, not even considering the specific set up of each leg. Yet here we all are. ![]() I'm not. I fear the swim, the bike and the run. not in a boggey man kind of way, though....... I, at this time, just dont see a reason to change it. |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() thelunchbox - 2010-04-20 8:51 AM I don't see a problem with the mass start. Everyone is on an even keel. No doubt people would "fluff" their numbers if it was a seeded start. Lots of them would end up getting run over anyway just like they do now. A logical person would set themselves up accordingly at the start with their perceived swimming ability. Only an idiot would set up in pole position at the front and on the buoy line when they know they will be swimming a 1:20. As it turns out, there are plenty of idiots out there. If they get run over, shame on them for being foolish. If you don't like contact, stay right or wade in at the start. It ain't that hard, and in an event such as an IM where all participants put in massive amounts of training and research just to get to the starting line, it should not be a revelation. Taper madness, excitement for the race start, and edgy nerves can throw logical thought and a plan in to the wind, though, which can account for some of the chaos. The rest is just people lying to themselves about their abilities. Perfectly stated. I was right on with where I seeded myself. 2/3s of the way to the right, second row of people. Took it out at what felt like a 1:20/100 pace, then after the first 700 yds or so slowed it down to a steady pace. I really had zero issues. Just got tight at the first turnaround, which is my own fault for taking it tight....and i had to try some fun fancy flip around thing Jorge taught me the night before. ![]() This really isn't that complex if you seed yourself right. But as LB said, <b>"Taper madness, excitement for the race start, and edgy nerves can throw logical thought and a plan in to the wind, though, which can account for some of the chaos"</b>....this is why most of you will go to the bouy line IMO & continue to think the LP swim is a disaster......... I say, go ahead! Please swim at the bouy line. Makes my swim all the better! LP swim was my favorite 1 hour of all of triathlons. The single reason I want to do LP again is to do that swim. Change your attitude and be smart about where you seed yourself and you might be surprised. |
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![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() As a volunteer observer last year I have to say the mass swim start was an unbelievable site to witness.....although I am sure there was much less "majesty" inside the scrum itself. One thing that I (IM novice) was interested to see was how many people held back at the start. As imperfect as it may have been there did seem to be some effort by people to seed themselves. You can go way outside or just wait until the faster swimmers get going. Quite a few people sat on the shore far right up by the start line. Others stood back on the beach or at the base of the dock until after the start. There were people who didn't even begin swimming towards the start line until more than 10 minutes after the canon went off. And with all those bodies and differing strategies in the water I think there was only one person who didn't make the swim cut-off (although I may be one of the very few here worried about things like cut-offs) I don't plan on waiting 10 minutes but I do plan on hanging back a little since my goal is simply to cross the line before midnight.....I hope to swim something respectable but more than anything I just want to finish without feeling overly fatigued. |
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Veteran![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Didn't the one guy who didn't make the swim cut off suffer from a stroke only 6 or 7 months before the race and only had use of one side? I remember it was something crazy like that and he wasn't expecting to make the cut off. He was out there for the memory. |
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Expert![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Fred, thanks for posting the info on gearing and expected bike time, I think many of us gained a lot from that. I'm probably going with the 12-27 cassette and I'll see how it works on the hills of TTT or if I'll need something extra still. GPS, it's always good to hear what people did in terms of seeding themselves and making decisions from those who had a great swim experience. This is the one part of the day I'm really not looking forward to, but it seems that attitude could use an SSRI. ![]() |
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![]() This user's post has been ignored. Edited by PennState 2010-04-20 3:42 PM |
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