RE-OPENED Birkierunner's 2013 mentor group - RE-OPENED!!! (Page 11)

Neil, I haven't forgotten about the second part of your earlier question....are you asking something different than focusing on improvements in your weaker events in the general phase before entering the specific phase that is geared more towards race preparation and race-specific workouts/race rehearsals, etc. ?  I'm assuming we're talking about longer race distances here (HIM, IM). Yeah, someone may have to give up preparing to race the distance if they are particularly weak in one or more of the disciplines.  I'm guessing your not in that boat so much, so maybe you can re-phrase the question?

Hey birkie,

got room for a donkey who would drop by on occassion?

dude...you're welcome anytime!!!!  Looks like an ultra emphasis for you this season??  Apple Du is a Worlds qualifier this year again but I think I'll be too fried from American TTT the week before to have a good race at Apple...plus Worlds is too close to IM season.  Last time I did TTT and Apple back to back I could barely lift my leg to get on my bike at T1 .  Welcome Davey!

I knew it was badly written at the time, but couldn't think of a better way of saying it.  Basically - if the goal is to improve against prior performances at the same race distance (all factors - weather, course, etc. considered equal), how much of an improvement(s) can one hope to see following a 20 week plan.

ohhell, guess i gotta do this now huh?

DJDAVEY (Dave), From Southeastern, WI (Donkeyland).  Plans this year:

May - Wisconsin Marathon (pace friend to BQ)/Ice Age 50 Mile (trail)

June - Kettle100 miler (trail)

July - Door County Sprint Triathlon (get my feet wet and back into tri's)

August - Rev3 HIM Wisconsin Dells

September - Fox Cities Marathon ? (would be to BQ)

October - Door County Fall 50 Mile (road)

all setting up 2014 for a return trip to Madison, WI for Ironman Wisconsin.

there you have it.  also, i am a certified RRCA Coach (running) so that helps out.

Hello all, I am one of those people who reads the posts on a regular basis but has only posted a couple of times.  I am taking it all in and trying to figure out my path. I am still very concerned about my swimming and have therefore, held off on signing up for my first tri.  I am still waiting for the coach at my gym to get in touch with me and schedule some sessions.  I am using the information from this group to try and work on some things out with my swimming so I can practice the best technique instead of learning bad habits.  I am also continuing to read the Joe Friel's Triathlon Training Bible but I think that is doing a good job of getting me really frustrated with what to do first and how to set up my training.  I know what I first have to do is to pick a tri and then work backwards to set up my training period.  I think I just need to pick an event and then train to it.  I can't keep flitting around as I know I will do better with a focused plan.  I looked at some of them on the site and feel that for the first year it may be better to have a stock plan then trying to make up one on my own.  

How does everyone feel about power meters for your trainer? Are they really necessary?  I don't have the funds to purchase a computrainer and have been reviewing the different meters online.  Has anyone tried the wahoo one that hooks up to your iPhone?  On a lighter note, since my bike wasn't shifting smoothly, I thought it was a good idea to go on youtube andlearn how to fix the issue...simple right?  Nope, now the bike is worse than before and on the way to the shop for a professional repair.  All for now, take care everyone.

Dave, you're too modest.  You forgot to mention that you're a movie star.

Hi Dave.  Don't worry about whether you post or not...if you are getting useful info from our discussions then this group has achieved one of its goals.  If your swim coach doesn't get back to you soon I would look elsewhere.  I'm sure there are plenty of other options out there and its not worth postponing getting some help on your swim by waiting on someone who apparently doesn't value your time and eagerness to learn. 

I can understand your frustration with Friel's TTB book.  It can be overwhelming.  This is supposed to be FUN, not frustrating.  I would highly recommend that you check out the training plans on this site, read many of the articles that are available, and ASK QUESTIONS.  You may have to upgrade your BT membership to access some of this material, but it will be worth it...unsolicited recommendation for BT on my part :-)  Most importantly...just get started...don't be victim to paralysis of analysis.  You can't go wrong by simply setting up a core schedule of swim, bike, run workouts that will fit your time and life constraints.  Consistency is the key, and between this mentor group, BT forums to ask questions, articles, etc you can learn as you go.  Its very easy to get caught up in the jargon of training, discussions about toys (e.g. swim training aids, powermeters, heart rate monitors, fancy running shoes, etc), and other subjects that may simply overwhelm someone just starting out.

And speaking of toys.....powermeters, computrainers, etc.  Personally I really really like my computrainer.  I write my own power-based workouts and run them on the CT and use Ergvideos as well.  I don't use my Powertap on it mostly because I've been too lazy to switch out wheels...but I probably will do so in the next few weeks.  Is a powermeter really necessary for the trainer?  Absolutely not.  You can successfully get by on rating of perceived exertion (RPE) to guide your workouts.  If you have a cheap heart rate monitor that may help you get a little more objective in guiding your workouts, although HR training has its own limitations to a certain extent but not so much that I would argue against them.  A powermeter would be the next step up in sophistication.  However, if you're going to use one you really need to know why you want to use one, then LEARN how to use one, and then make use of the data to guide your training.  There are some good books out there to help you learn how to use one and analyze data....can't remember if we've mentioned them in earlier posts so I'll look...if not, I'll post links to them.  I can't comment on the wahoo device...check out DCRainmaker's website - he does a lot of product reviews.

Congrats on trying to do your own bike wrenching..its the only way to learn.  If you make a mistake, you can always call your shop like you did.  For the longest time when I first started out I was totally intimidated by changing my rear cassette...turns out it was a piece of cake with the right tools. 

And just as I thought, DCRainmaker has a write-up on the Wahoo pm

don't forget your cameo in there as well.  heck, didn't you get nominated for best supporting actor that year?

In case everyone else is wondering what we're blabbering about (and because Dave didn't take advantage of an obvious opportunity to make a plug for the movie!) take a look at The Distance   HA!!! check out my moustache (now gone) in the movie trailer at the very end   LMAOROTFL

didn't plug it because seriously, everyone has already seen it, um, haven't they???

My first two years, the only equipment I had was a craigslist bicycle with a "wired" computer that measured speed and distance relatively accurately and a $20 cheapo Timex "Ironman" watch.

I still haven't committed to a power-meter for my bike - and not sure when/if the wife will sign off on that purchase, at least at the current price points.

I would definitely look into the bronze or silver BT membership plans for anyone's first couple of years in the sport, and just stick with them.  The books are nice, but IMO, they offer far more "science" than I was really interested in.  Getting started, I just wanted to know when and how far to run/bike/swim so that I didn't look like an idiot come race day.  

The toys are fun, but getting started... completely not required, IMO.   

Geez Neil…do you have something against questions that have one sentence answers? LOL :-)  I don’t think any coach can adequately answer this question without knowing a lot more about the athlete.  It’s one thing to make a prediction for someone that came off the couch and raced an Olympic triathlon last year and then put him through a 20 week plan in year 2 and measure the improvement.  Its quite another thing to make a prediction for an athlete with several years of racing under their belt, but who may have had un-structured training up until now and then put that athlete through a structured 20 week plan that was developed after field testing to get their “vital stats”.  It doesn’t take a rocket surgeon to guess that the less experienced athlete will likely experience a greater percentage improvement in his race following the 20 week plan than will the more experienced athlete. 

In one of Skiba’s training books he mentions a study that compared a group of sedentary subjects to a group of well-trained subjects after an interval training program and looked at several measure of athletic performance in the 2 groups (e.g. VO2max, speed at VO2max, LT, speed at LT, and time to exhaustion).  After 8 weeks the sedentary group experienced improvements in all measures of performance, but the well-trained subjects had less dramatic improvements.  The bottom line is, if you are fit it becomes much harder to achieve incremental improvements in fitness.  It goes to follow that if you are fit (i.e. you have already picked the low-hanging fruit) you will experience smaller incremental improvements in race times following a 20 week plan versus a beginner (they have a lot of low-hanging fruit to pick). 

Other factors to consider are whether or not the athlete has a weakness in one or more disciplines.  If less time needs to be devoted to addressing a weakness in one discipline then more time can be spent in race-specific training, refining nutrition strategies, honing in on race pace goals in race rehearsals, etc.  The bottom line is that no one can tell you that you will improve “x” minutes by following coach Y’s 20 week plan. 

Hey, all --

I'm heading off next week for a few days of sun and warmth with my sweetheart in Maui.  I'm hoping to get in a few open water swims while I'm there.  I'm still pretty new to swimming -- just since September -- and everything I've done so far has been in a pool.  Any thoughts, suggestions, tips, or the like, on tackling open water?  Scott?  Jim?

Gary

Gary...I hate you :-) ...we are supposed to have a high temp of 2 degrees tomorrow.  Actually, I love winter so don't mind it at all.  Have a great time out there.  I'll let Scott address any technical things but I would suggest working on your sighting skills in open water while out there.  Open water is where it pays off to be able to swim with bilateral breathing.  If you know how to breathe on both sides you can adapt to the conditions of the day and breathe off whatever side helps avoid swells/wind and taking in water by accident.  Enjoy!!!

Thanks for the feedback Jim - your answer was in line with what I kind of expected to see.

Different question.  When you're having difficulties hitting power targets for interval work, what do you do with that workout.  bag it all together, or just accept the fact that it's not your day and put in an easier effort but still complete the time in the saddle.

My schedule has kind of flipped around on me lately with my wife returning to work and I just don't have the legs or the mental fortitude to hit the numbers for 6 x 4min sessions, hard 10min intervals, etc.  ust really tierd overall at the moment, but I recognize that I need to be putting in hard efforts now to see any payoff come June and the start of race season.

The first thing to do is try to pinpoint why you're tired overall.  Schedule changes and lack of sleep can really mess you up temporarily.  Just try to get the schedule settled down.  As for difficulty in hitting power targets in a workout, I would always opt for getting time in the saddle as a minimum.  I had a day last week where my legs were tired from x-c skiing the weekend prior and I knew right away I was not going to be able to keep up with the Ergvideo workout I had started.  When I did try to keep up with the surges in the video my form went all to heck and that is a time when you can tweak/injure something.  I abandoned that workout and picked another one that had an easier effort.  But I got time in the saddle as a minimum.  On the other hand, I've had other workouts where it was more of a psychological challenge to get the workout done.  I knew the legs were fine but for some reason that day it was hard to get myself to push it.  I didn't abandon the workout but tried to "re-boot" my brain and although it was tough to get through I got it done.  Those are the days that will pay off come race day.

Hi Jim:  Saw you were open again and would love to sneak into this group.  Here is a short bio.

NAME: Ryan (rymac)

STORY:  I am 32 and located in Norton Shores, MI.  This will be my 6th year in triathlon.  I played every sport when I was younger except for swimming, biking and running.  I was primarily a hockey, basketball, soccer player.  My sister did a couple IM's and I got hooked on it immediately after crossing my first finish line.

FAMILY STATUS:  Married with a 20 month old daugther and another on the way in late May/early June.  I primarily workout very early in the morning and at lunch time so I can have all evening with them.

CURRENT TRAINING: Currently doing the Endurance Nation Outseason plan and focusing very heavily on Biking and Running over the winter with lots of intensity and weekly volume only in the 6-8 hour range.  Also playing hockey twice a week.

2012 RACES:  2 HIM races (Grand Rapids & MI Titanium) and 2 Olympics (Grand Haven & Tawas) with several running races.  Set 10K, 15K and Half Marathon PRs and also placed in my AG or OA in all the triathlon races.

2013 RACES:  I will be focusing primarily on the Oympic distance this year and running races.  There is an outside chance for a late season HIM but not planning it.  Really looking forward to getting really fast this year at short course and then transferring that speed to HIM in 2014.

WEIGHT LOSS GOALS: Currently at 167 lbs but would like to race below 160.  I am watching what I eat quite a bit now but it goes in spurts.  Not overly worried about it.

WINTER TRAINING GOALS: Get Fast!  I am going to push swimming to the back of the bus again this winter and continue to work on Bike/Run through intensity.  The ROI for swimming is low for me* considering all the admin/travel time.  I will still swim 1x week minimum.

WHAT WOULD MAKE ME A GOOD MEMBER: I continually learn and pick up different things from the mentor groups and love all the training input. 

Hi Ryan...you're more than welcome to join the group.  Looks like you have a lot of racing experience that you can share with others in the group.  Also looks like you're going to be busy with kids for the next couple of decades :-)   Time management will be your friend.  Great to have you joing us!

Since I re-opened the group I wanted to post the group members again since its been a while since I last did it.  Here is the All Star lineup:

Tim               timjim987                   Missouri
Paul              pmoores                     Canada
Craig             Cmarch                      Canada
Jess              jkouvel                       New Jersey
Amy             mom2wildboys             Rhode Island
JoAnne          zaj17                         Canada
Dave             djdavey                      Wisconsin
Ryan             rymac                          Michigan

Yeah, it is going to be interesting come June.  I kind of threw my race schedule out the window when we found out we were expecting again.  I am planning to stick to Olympics and probably running races but we will see how things go. 

We have a girl and are expecting a boy this time....nice to level things out in the house .