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2009-02-02 4:50 PM
in reply to: #1941343

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Subject: RE: tribesman's group - FULL
swise - 2009-02-02 12:56 PM

tribesman - 2009-02-02 11:27 AM

How was everyone's weekend?

- What did we learn?
- What goals did we meet?
- Any specific set-back's?


Tony


Good weekend. Nothing particularly exciting - can't say I met my goal for cycling on Saturday b/c did workout on trainer and ended up cutting short (learned not to start a 2hr ride at 8:20 on a Saturday night), but I did my long run as scheduled and really enjoyed it Sunday.

No set-backs that I am cognizant of.


Ahh yes...late night training sessions can be challenging! I too enjoyed my run on Sunday and am glad you were able to run!!


2009-02-03 2:15 PM
in reply to: #1857242

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Subject: RE: tribesman's group - FULL

In regards to the trainer question.  What I do is put the resistance on and then pump my tire up.  This will give you a bit more pressure on there.  The black stuff is your tread coming on, so like others said, increase your resistance.

Sandy:  I wish I had known you didn't know how to change a tire.  I will fix that at the next trainer party.

Bricks:  First terminology.  Transition runs are when you run a short distance off the bike just to get the proper muscles firing.  These runs don't last longer than 10 - 15 min and are done at an easy pace.  Bricks are more focused on endurance.  >15 min and are done at a faster pace than transition runs.

When you're in season, it's safe to do transition runs after most if not all bikes.  Bricks are designated workouts with a purpose.  Most brick runs do not exceed 45 min even at the IM distance.

Hope that helps.

2009-02-03 4:24 PM
in reply to: #1857242

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Subject: health and fitness at work
Team,

At work, my VP and I have been discussing health and fitness for a few months now. So, I decided to host bi-monthly "lunch and learn" sessions to promote overall wellness. Today was our first meeting and we used it as a "goal setting" and planning session.

It got me thinking...how is health and fitness received at work? In your family?

Here are some sites I shared with them:

http://www.my-calorie-counter.com/


http://www.dwlz.com/restaurants.html (restaurant information at the bottom)


http://mypyramid.gov/


http://www.nutrition.gov/nal_display/index.php?info_center=11&tax_l...


http://www.fitness.gov/

Let me know what you think...

Tony
2009-02-03 10:30 PM
in reply to: #1857242

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Subject: RE: tribesman's group - FULL
Where I work we have a gym and pool across the road. Torcan (whom I work for) pays for 60% of the cost. We also get the corperate rates..so its really cheap. Unforunatly I live a 40 minute drive north of work so I just use the pool and not the gym. I think its really important for companies to offer programms like this for their staff.
2009-02-04 11:59 AM
in reply to: #1942003

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Subject: RE: tribesman's group - FULL
Hello Team,

I hope training is going well this week. I will be out of pocket most of this evening and tomorrow but plan to be back online Friday sometime.

Chat with you all soon!

Tony

Edited by tribesman 2009-02-04 12:16 PM
2009-02-04 4:45 PM
in reply to: #1857242

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Subject: RE: tribesman's group - FULL

here`s some snow for y`all

I cant get the pic to download

 



Edited by natebs 2009-02-04 4:50 PM


2009-02-05 2:07 PM
in reply to: #1945904

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Subject: RE: tribesman's group - FULL
natebs - 2009-02-04 5:45 PM

here`s some snow for y`all

I cant get the pic to download

 

 Nate you must be really mentally disciplined because I could not train indoors for as long as you have to. I don't think I could ever move out of the southeast. Keep up the hard work!

 

2009-02-07 9:52 AM
in reply to: #1857242

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Subject: race prep
Hello Team,

I hope all's well. With Ian's upcoming race (tri) I thought it would be good to discuss race prep. This includes but is not limited to nutrition, attire, gear, travel, taper, and other stressors such as the physical, mental and emotional side of preparing for a race.

I apologize for my lack of participation over the last few days. Work has me very busy and out of town, with little access to the internet. (and more of it soon).


Ian, why don't you start us off since you are racing next weekend?


I hope everyone has a good weekend. Keep us posted!

Tony
2009-02-08 1:35 PM
in reply to: #1950390

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Subject: RE: race prep

tribesman - 2009-02-07 10:52 AM Hello Team, I hope all's well. With Ian's upcoming race (tri) I thought it would be good to discuss race prep. This includes but is not limited to nutrition, attire, gear, travel, taper, and other stressors such as the physical, mental and emotional side of preparing for a race. I apologize for my lack of participation over the last few days. Work has me very busy and out of town, with little access to the internet. (and more of it soon). Ian, why don't you start us off since you are racing next weekend? I hope everyone has a good weekend. Keep us posted! Tony

 Absolutely! Right now, I'm really swamped with school, but will try and get on later tonight or tomorrow and discuss what I've got going on this upcoming week. 

2009-02-08 10:50 PM
in reply to: #1857242


14

Subject: RE: tribesman's group - FULL

whats up everyone??

 

been a LONG two weeks. snow and bitter cold up until yesterday.

 I swam for the first time last friday. it was hard, i did a lap hard then took a minute rest. did a couple of laps freestlye then started goofing off but kept moving the whole time. I was in the pool for like 25minutes.

 sadly thats the last time I have excercised.... :-\

 I got my first programming assignment and I am just now figuring out studyin with friends is a waste of time. lol.

 i took a fitness assesment test though. resting HR of 54, 7.7 body fat, my aerobics fitness test sucked. it was the sublevel max test. (bogus) it was my lowest score actually.

 Also a wierd thing happened to me last night, around 2 in the morning i rolled over and bam. charlie horse in my calf. (i have never had the pleasure of having a charlie horse) massaged it for 10 minutes until it unballed itself and I could sleep. I was sore all day today but after walking around so much at work it feels better. I have really taken advantage of my body this week. (many many late nights studying and programming with and no excercise)

 

on the flip side..... i got into a routine for food. huge whopping bowl of cereal, with a small glass of milk or breakfeast carnation around 6:30. then around 9:30 i grab an apple or banana with a carton of milk for a snack before my next class. For lunch i get a heaping bowl of pasta w/ alfredo, two massive bread sticks, and i gank as many crackers and jellies i can grab. then dinner is what my mom makes (usually good and balanced most of the time) and i graze over peanuts.

 I cannot do anything tomorrow but it's supposed to be 70 tuesday, I planned on doing 20 easy miles on my bike and running for an hour, really just to enjoy the weather.



Edited by ryan90 2009-02-08 10:54 PM
2009-02-08 10:55 PM
in reply to: #1951912

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Subject: RE: tribesman's group - FULL
ryan90 - 2009-02-08 8:50 PM

 Also a wierd thing happened to me last night, around 2 in the morning i rolled over and bam. charlie horse in my calf. (i have never had the pleasure of having a charlie horse) massaged it for 10 minutes until it unballed itself and I could sleep. I was sore all day today but after walking around so much at work it feels better.

Charlie Horse's are the worst!  I've found that getting out of bed and standing up/walking/jumping-up-and-down-while-screaming gets rid of them very quickly, as does pulling your toes up with your hands (stretches the leg) - which works very well in the pool



2009-02-08 10:58 PM
in reply to: #1950390

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Subject: Weekly Recap

Good but tiring week.  The highlights:

Thursday: swam 3062 yards in 1:13 - a personal best!

Saturday: ran 8.4 miles  - another pb!  Then swam 2700+ yards in an hour.

Today: rode 26.4 miles unded rain-threatening-clouds while still in great pain from the run

Stat's for the week:

<style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}

Swim 4.66 mi

Bike 45.12 mi

Run 12.96 mi

 

 

2009-02-09 1:44 PM
in reply to: #1857242

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Subject: RE: tribesman's group - FULL

Sigh....

I had so much momentum to get cranking last week.  I was back from my trip and was just getting my long weekend workout when BLAM!  (I have to vent so the following is me venting!)

Strep throat with an added bonus of some creepy glandular infection attacked my house.  First my six year old then me...I have not been so sick in a very long time...This one was like chicken pox sick..fever, pain etc....This is like the third or fourth week of training this year that I have lost due to major illness.  I know, I know...its part of being a parent but seriously I am pissed and really frustrated!  I do everything I can to avoid illness.  Zicam, airborne, we spray everything with lysol, we change sheets DAILY yet I am still getting these damn bugs.  I just don't know why...I have some issues with high blood pressure but I have it under control.  My hubby never seems to catch these bugs..His just sits on the deck smoking his cigars and drinking beer and NOT getting sick.  Its just not fair!!!!  Granted, I am the one the kids come to when they are sick and I end up with some feverish little body squished up against me but I am really careful to keep my vitamins up etc but I still end up ill...Arrggggeee!!!!

The hardest part is that I am not sure when I should workout and when I should baby myself.  Even when sick, I want to get right back to the working out but I have been burned before and ended up relapsed and screwed myself in the long run.  I also feel tremendous guilt when I get sick and don't work out.  I have the internal voice saying "you wimp...those other athletes workout.." but again..That inner voice is driven by a lot of emotional baggage over the years and it can often be harmful and cause me to push too hard too soon so now I am learning to be careful...End of story...

How sick are you guys before you given up a training session?  fever?  Fever the day before? cough?  Do you work out when you feel yourself getting sick?  do you scale back?  Is a cough and chest cold but no fever ok to workout with?  How about a sinus infection? 

So after six days in bed and tons of antibiotics I am finally up and at it again.  I did a brief run yesturday and some pilates just to get moving again.  Today will be a slow recovery run etc..Let me know your thoughts on sickness because its really a problem for me...Yell

2009-02-09 8:30 PM
in reply to: #1952948

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Subject: RE: tribesman's group - FULL
As a momma too - I feel your pain. One of mine brought home a stomach virus last week that is all over the schools in our county. We actually got a weaker version of it (no puking or ... ) but just pain. It has been a week and I am still sensitive to certain foods and getting over it. I missed working out last Tuesday b/c of it but managed to get through most of the rest of the week (missed Sunday's workout but that was a different story which I can't blame on my stomach). I think whether or not you force the workout depends on how bad you actually feel and what kind of workout you are going to do. I felt like crap Friday but swam anyway and it was the perfect solution - something about being in the water. Sometimes to get up and moving (even if a lighter workout) really helps me. But -- TRUST YOUR BODY! If you are sick sick (ie, sick to the point that you couldn't attend school based on their forbidden list of ailments) then rest and don't force it - no point in making anything worse.

I hope you get to feeling better.
2009-02-09 11:29 PM
in reply to: #1857242


14

Subject: RE: tribesman's group - FULL

When I start to feel sick,

 (i had a huge prob with strep)

I would cancel anything i could that would put me in bed by 8.

If it meant cutting a run short. it was short. I pretty much turn every workout to a leisure workout and maintain that two days after I start to feel better. The amount I scaled down though is a direct reflection of how exhausted I feel

 so if you can't find time to get extra rest, then the same amount of sleep and less stress (no workout) might be the way to go.

 That's what I do, that's also why I havn't done anything in a week.

afrutoz, it sounds like you have the right idea though.

 I am an 18 year old that took a week off b/c of strep and too much homework. Had I not taken off I would be so sore and broken down from lack of sleep i might still be sick. Do not feel bad it's happeneds to all of us.

 hope that helps....



Edited by ryan90 2009-02-09 11:34 PM
2009-02-10 4:06 PM
in reply to: #1951370

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Subject: RE: race prep
theiframe - 2009-02-08 2:35 PM

tribesman - 2009-02-07 10:52 AM Hello Team, I hope all's well. With Ian's upcoming race (tri) I thought it would be good to discuss race prep. This includes but is not limited to nutrition, attire, gear, travel, taper, and other stressors such as the physical, mental and emotional side of preparing for a race. I apologize for my lack of participation over the last few days. Work has me very busy and out of town, with little access to the internet. (and more of it soon). Ian, why don't you start us off since you are racing next weekend? I hope everyone has a good weekend. Keep us posted! Tony

 Absolutely! Right now, I'm really swamped with school, but will try and get on later tonight or tomorrow and discuss what I've got going on this upcoming week. 



Excellent! We look forward to hearing from you!

So...how is your taper going??


2009-02-10 4:07 PM
in reply to: #1951912

Expert
671
5001002525
Atlanta, GA
Subject: RE: tribesman's group - FULL
ryan90 - 2009-02-08 11:50 PM

whats up everyone??

 

been a LONG two weeks. snow and bitter cold up until yesterday.

 I swam for the first time last friday. it was hard, i did a lap hard then took a minute rest. did a couple of laps freestlye then started goofing off but kept moving the whole time. I was in the pool for like 25minutes.

 sadly thats the last time I have excercised.... :-\

 I got my first programming assignment and I am just now figuring out studyin with friends is a waste of time. lol.

 i took a fitness assesment test though. resting HR of 54, 7.7 body fat, my aerobics fitness test sucked. it was the sublevel max test. (bogus) it was my lowest score actually.

 Also a wierd thing happened to me last night, around 2 in the morning i rolled over and bam. charlie horse in my calf. (i have never had the pleasure of having a charlie horse) massaged it for 10 minutes until it unballed itself and I could sleep. I was sore all day today but after walking around so much at work it feels better. I have really taken advantage of my body this week. (many many late nights studying and programming with and no excercise)

 

on the flip side..... i got into a routine for food. huge whopping bowl of cereal, with a small glass of milk or breakfeast carnation around 6:30. then around 9:30 i grab an apple or banana with a carton of milk for a snack before my next class. For lunch i get a heaping bowl of pasta w/ alfredo, two massive bread sticks, and i gank as many crackers and jellies i can grab. then dinner is what my mom makes (usually good and balanced most of the time) and i graze over peanuts.

 I cannot do anything tomorrow but it's supposed to be 70 tuesday, I planned on doing 20 easy miles on my bike and running for an hour, really just to enjoy the weather.



Welcome back Ryan! Glad you are getting back into the swing of things...
2009-02-10 4:10 PM
in reply to: #1951916

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Subject: RE: Weekly Recap
Steve Mark - 2009-02-08 11:58 PM

Good but tiring week.  The highlights:

Thursday: swam 3062 yards in 1:13 - a personal best!

Saturday: ran 8.4 miles  - another pb!  Then swam 2700+ yards in an hour.

Today: rode 26.4 miles unded rain-threatening-clouds while still in great pain from the run

Stat's for the week:

<style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}

Swim 4.66 mi

Bike 45.12 mi

Run 12.96 mi

 

 



Steve,

NICE PBs there!! Feels good to exceed goals, huh?! Numbers don't lie...


How was everyone else's weekend? I got a 14 mile run in with the last 5 at tempo pace...ouch!
2009-02-10 4:31 PM
in reply to: #1952948

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Subject: Sickos! :)
afrutoz - 2009-02-09 2:44 PM

Sigh....

I had so much momentum to get cranking last week.  I was back from my trip and was just getting my long weekend workout when BLAM!  (I have to vent so the following is me venting!)

Strep throat with an added bonus of some creepy glandular infection attacked my house.  First my six year old then me...I have not been so sick in a very long time...This one was like chicken pox sick..fever, pain etc....This is like the third or fourth week of training this year that I have lost due to major illness.  I know, I know...its part of being a parent but seriously I am pissed and really frustrated!  I do everything I can to avoid illness.  Zicam, airborne, we spray everything with lysol, we change sheets DAILY yet I am still getting these damn bugs.  I just don't know why...I have some issues with high blood pressure but I have it under control.  My hubby never seems to catch these bugs..His just sits on the deck smoking his cigars and drinking beer and NOT getting sick.  Its just not fair!!!!  Granted, I am the one the kids come to when they are sick and I end up with some feverish little body squished up against me but I am really careful to keep my vitamins up etc but I still end up ill...Arrggggeee!!!!

The hardest part is that I am not sure when I should workout and when I should baby myself.  Even when sick, I want to get right back to the working out but I have been burned before and ended up relapsed and screwed myself in the long run.  I also feel tremendous guilt when I get sick and don't work out.  I have the internal voice saying "you wimp...those other athletes workout.." but again..That inner voice is driven by a lot of emotional baggage over the years and it can often be harmful and cause me to push too hard too soon so now I am learning to be careful...End of story...

How sick are you guys before you given up a training session?  fever?  Fever the day before? cough?  Do you work out when you feel yourself getting sick?  do you scale back?  Is a cough and chest cold but no fever ok to workout with?  How about a sinus infection? 

So after six days in bed and tons of antibiotics I am finally up and at it again.  I did a brief run yesturday and some pilates just to get moving again.  Today will be a slow recovery run etc..Let me know your thoughts on sickness because its really a problem for me...Yell



Ahh...a very timely post! I have been on two company business trips in a very short period of time and got a sinus infection in between. That, combined with some sleep deprivation and stale air in the planes and hotel rooms lead to me laying in bed for a while! I'm just able to sit up and work, thus my lack of posts over the last few days

Alison, rest and recovery with good nutritional practices are your best bet. Ryan and Sandy provided some good advice. Remember, you and your family come first. You also have to provide for them so... you need to work (read: be healthy in order to work!). What I am saying is although training is fun and we can get a lot out of it, there's a time to slow or stop it due to illness.

A good rule of thumb to follow is: If it's above the neck, what the heck. If it's in the chest, REST! (if you are feeling it only in your head, it is OK to train; if you have chest cold, etc...don't train). Also, I do not usually train with a bad cough, especially in the cold air. HOWEVER, listen very carefully to your body. It will tell you what to do. It is early in the season and you don't want to jump back into training then to be set back yet again (like you said). I just took 3 full days in a row off of training, and that is HUGE for me. My body was saying "NO. YOU MUST REST!" That is exactly what I did and I think I will be glad I did this weekend. I am still fighting my sinus infection but hope to kick it soon.

Hope you are well soon. Please don't worry about venting...that's what we are here for Let us know how you are doing...

Tony
2009-02-11 9:33 AM
in reply to: #1955391

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Subject: RE: race prep
tribesman - 2009-02-10 5:06 PM
theiframe - 2009-02-08 2:35 PM

tribesman - 2009-02-07 10:52 AM Hello Team, I hope all's well. With Ian's upcoming race (tri) I thought it would be good to discuss race prep. This includes but is not limited to nutrition, attire, gear, travel, taper, and other stressors such as the physical, mental and emotional side of preparing for a race. I apologize for my lack of participation over the last few days. Work has me very busy and out of town, with little access to the internet. (and more of it soon). Ian, why don't you start us off since you are racing next weekend? I hope everyone has a good weekend. Keep us posted! Tony

 Absolutely! Right now, I'm really swamped with school, but will try and get on later tonight or tomorrow and discuss what I've got going on this upcoming week. 

Excellent! We look forward to hearing from you! So...how is your taper going??

 The taper is going good so far. It kind of worked out nicely that I need to reduce my volume this week with all the other stuff I have to do. Monday morning I had a moderate swim workout. Tuesday night I had a short run with some strides. This afternoon I'm going on a short bike ride that has some good hills. Thursday I'll go for a medium length swim. Friday will be a rest and travel day. Saturday morning I'll do about 10 minutes of swimming and running on the race course and about 15-20 minutes on the bike. I'm so excited I can't wait! I love racing!

2009-02-11 12:33 PM
in reply to: #1857242

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Subject: RE: tribesman's group - FULL

Tony was dead on with his advice about training while sick.  Another thing that I do is to keep my workout time in my day.  By that, I mean even if I'm sick, I put on my training clothes and go for a walk or walk the dog.  Something that still 'engraines' the training time into my schedule.

Even when I was out for a week and could barely get off the couch, I walked up the street and back.  It was very funny for Nan to watch me put on my running shorts for a 10 min walk up the street.  But it made me feel better and helped me keep my routine.



2009-02-11 3:20 PM
in reply to: #1956436

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Subject: RE: race prep
theiframe - 2009-02-11 10:33 AM

tribesman - 2009-02-10 5:06 PM
theiframe - 2009-02-08 2:35 PM

tribesman - 2009-02-07 10:52 AM Hello Team, I hope all's well. With Ian's upcoming race (tri) I thought it would be good to discuss race prep. This includes but is not limited to nutrition, attire, gear, travel, taper, and other stressors such as the physical, mental and emotional side of preparing for a race. I apologize for my lack of participation over the last few days. Work has me very busy and out of town, with little access to the internet. (and more of it soon). Ian, why don't you start us off since you are racing next weekend? I hope everyone has a good weekend. Keep us posted! Tony

 Absolutely! Right now, I'm really swamped with school, but will try and get on later tonight or tomorrow and discuss what I've got going on this upcoming week. 

Excellent! We look forward to hearing from you! So...how is your taper going??

 The taper is going good so far. It kind of worked out nicely that I need to reduce my volume this week with all the other stuff I have to do. Monday morning I had a moderate swim workout. Tuesday night I had a short run with some strides. This afternoon I'm going on a short bike ride that has some good hills. Thursday I'll go for a medium length swim. Friday will be a rest and travel day. Saturday morning I'll do about 10 minutes of swimming and running on the race course and about 15-20 minutes on the bike. I'm so excited I can't wait! I love racing!



Sounds like a good taper to me. Care to share your race and nutrition strategy?

Tony
2009-02-11 3:52 PM
in reply to: #1857242

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Subject: RE: tribesman's group - FULL

Question about a Garmin 305

 

I am thinking about buying one.  I want to be able to use it both for the bike and the run.  I wanted to know if any of you use one and what exactly I need to buy so I can use it both as a running monitor and as a bike monitor with cadence.  Thanks

2009-02-11 11:05 PM
in reply to: #1957323

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Subject: RE: race prep
tribesman - 2009-02-11 4:20 PM
theiframe - 2009-02-11 10:33 AM
tribesman - 2009-02-10 5:06 PM
theiframe - 2009-02-08 2:35 PM

tribesman - 2009-02-07 10:52 AM Hello Team, I hope all's well. With Ian's upcoming race (tri) I thought it would be good to discuss race prep. This includes but is not limited to nutrition, attire, gear, travel, taper, and other stressors such as the physical, mental and emotional side of preparing for a race. I apologize for my lack of participation over the last few days. Work has me very busy and out of town, with little access to the internet. (and more of it soon). Ian, why don't you start us off since you are racing next weekend? I hope everyone has a good weekend. Keep us posted! Tony

 Absolutely! Right now, I'm really swamped with school, but will try and get on later tonight or tomorrow and discuss what I've got going on this upcoming week. 

Excellent! We look forward to hearing from you! So...how is your taper going??

 The taper is going good so far. It kind of worked out nicely that I need to reduce my volume this week with all the other stuff I have to do. Monday morning I had a moderate swim workout. Tuesday night I had a short run with some strides. This afternoon I'm going on a short bike ride that has some good hills. Thursday I'll go for a medium length swim. Friday will be a rest and travel day. Saturday morning I'll do about 10 minutes of swimming and running on the race course and about 15-20 minutes on the bike. I'm so excited I can't wait! I love racing!

Sounds like a good taper to me. Care to share your race and nutrition strategy? Tony

 

My nutrition is pretty simple and straight forward for this distance. I'll take a GU about an hour before the start and then again 15 minutes before the start. On the bike I'll have two bottles: one with water and one with the Powerbar electrolyte mix. I'll go back and forth with those and will take a GU  on the second half of the bike, closer to T2. As for the run, I usually don't like to take in anything when it's less than 10k unless it's really hot. So, depending on how I feel, I may or may not take water on the run. Hopefully I'll be feeling strong and won't need anything. haha 

2009-02-12 10:04 AM
in reply to: #1957393

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Subject: RE: tribesman's group - FULL
afrutoz - 2009-02-11 4:52 PM

Question about a Garmin 305

 

I am thinking about buying one.  I want to be able to use it both for the bike and the run.  I wanted to know if any of you use one and what exactly I need to buy so I can use it both as a running monitor and as a bike monitor with cadence.  Thanks



I have one and love it. I use mine for bike and run - but to get cadence on the bike you have to purchase an additional piece that goes on your bike. I have had it for a year and still learning how to utilize all the functions. I don't swim with mine for fear of damaging it (have heard that you can swim up to 30 min w/it but I'm not wealthy enough to take that chance). With the 405 out now you should be able to get a pretty good deal on a used one. Good luck shopping!
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