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2024-07-16 7:58 AM
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Subject: RE: Beer Drinkers Appreciation Society (BDAS) 2023 Mentor Group - ALWAYS OPEN

Fat Thor was only allowed to frolic for two days, back at it this morning with a speed work 5K+ treadmill run...main set 4 x 1' @ R pace which I've dropped a few seconds to about 7:10/mile or so.  Going to train a little harder on the quality run days and see how that goes, going with Daniels' VDOT 39 pacing.  Then we did our strength work and planks.  All-in over 90 minutes.

Not sure if I mentioned this but our daughter moved back home (as all 20-somethings do now apparently...I wouldn't have moved back in if I were homeless LOL) and she's doing a 9/80 work schedule and trying to avoid traffic so the household is rustling at 5 AM now - getting into Gretchen territory around here.  It's summer and getting light out by 5:30 so it works for now, but it's hard to get to sleep that early. 



Edited by jmhpsu93 2024-07-16 8:00 AM


2024-07-16 8:02 AM
in reply to: nicole14e

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Subject: RE: Beer Drinkers Appreciation Society (BDAS) 2023 Mentor Group - ALWAYS OPEN

Originally posted by nicole14e
Originally posted by Rollergirl I don't mind hills, as long as they are of the "down" variety.
I almost spit my tea out at this

While I'd usually agree, I'm still a little guarded letting it loose running downhill...something I just need to work through mentally.  Maybe I should try the downhill feature on my treadmill as it goes down to -5%.

2024-07-16 8:06 AM
in reply to: jmhpsu93

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Subject: RE: Beer Drinkers Appreciation Society (BDAS) 2023 Mentor Group - ALWAYS OPEN
Originally posted by jmhpsu93

Originally posted by nicole14e
Originally posted by Rollergirl I don't mind hills, as long as they are of the "down" variety.
I almost spit my tea out at this

While I'd usually agree, I'm still a little guarded letting it loose running downhill...something I just need to work through mentally.  Maybe I should try the downhill feature on my treadmill as it goes down to -5%.




I actually find downhills a bit harder on the knees/quads as it feels more impactful on them. Might be my trail running mindset where I'm super cautious going down so I don't wreck something.
2024-07-16 8:19 AM
in reply to: robertChiefsFan

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Subject: RE: Beer Drinkers Appreciation Society (BDAS) 2023 Mentor Group - ALWAYS OPEN
Originally posted by robertChiefsFan

Originally posted by jmhpsu93

Originally posted by nicole14e
Originally posted by Rollergirl I don't mind hills, as long as they are of the "down" variety.
I almost spit my tea out at this

While I'd usually agree, I'm still a little guarded letting it loose running downhill...something I just need to work through mentally.  Maybe I should try the downhill feature on my treadmill as it goes down to -5%.




I actually find downhills a bit harder on the knees/quads as it feels more impactful on them. Might be my trail running mindset where I'm super cautious going down so I don't wreck something.




They are harder on the knees if you try to brake. If you let go and land under yourself (if you see what I mean) it's a a lot of fun (a little scary, I'll admit)

That said, on trails I am very cautious too, even uphill.

2024-07-16 8:24 AM
in reply to: jmhpsu93

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Subject: RE: Beer Drinkers Appreciation Society (BDAS) 2023 Mentor Group - ALWAYS OPEN
Originally posted by jmhpsu93

Fat Thor was only allowed to frolic for two days, back at it this morning with a speed work 5K+ treadmill run...main set 4 x 1' @ R pace which I've dropped a few seconds to about 7:10/mile or so.  Going to train a little harder on the quality run days and see how that goes, going with Daniels' VDOT 39 pacing.  Then we did our strength work and planks.  All-in over 90 minutes.

Not sure if I mentioned this but our daughter moved back home (as all 20-somethings do now apparently...I wouldn't have moved back in if I were homeless LOL) and she's doing a 9/80 work schedule and trying to avoid traffic so the household is rustling at 5 AM now - getting into Gretchen territory around here.  It's summer and getting light out by 5:30 so it works for now, but it's hard to get to sleep that early. 




welcome back Mike, we can't have fat Thor overstaying his welcome.

My son is also back, although only for 6 weeks until he moves out for good and starts his new job in the Swedish army.

He actually said to me when I said he was always welcome back (temporarily) if it didn't work out that he would rather sleep on the street than move back in.

He is not up early but bakes in the middle of the night and we get awaken by nice smells (at 2am)
2024-07-16 9:36 AM
in reply to: Rollergirl

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Subject: RE: Beer Drinkers Appreciation Society (BDAS) 2023 Mentor Group - ALWAYS OPEN
While I 100% know I am always welcome at my parent's house, I would live in a porta potty before I moved back in of my own volition!! I actually lived with them for about 8 week sat the beginning of 2021 when my dad had a MRSA infection and needed IV antibiotic treatments 8 times a day to help out. I love my parents, but no...just no. (and I even more so when I was 20!!)

I'm behind, but everyone sounds like they are going gang busters!

Last week for me:
4 swims 10,045.10yd 4:19:30
4 bike: 187.56 mi 11:18:57
4 runs: 20.52 mi 4:46:59
2 strength 2:24:xx

Total 22:49--supposed to be the biggest week of the training plan

Enjoying rest week this week. Yesterday was a short swim across the lake with my new Form goggles. The swim straight function (essentially a compass in the goggles) works pretty well, if you know how to use a compass. And...you have to trust it, as opposed to believing that your swimmate is sighting better than you are following her for a while instead of the compass. We swam about 1600yds, but spent just over two hours in the lake--that's gonna kill my metrics! :D We actually spent a good hour just chatting while sitting in the water (hot water, btw) and getting bitten by fish. Super weird to get bitten by fish, but there we are! This morning was an hour run with 6x2.5' of supposed to be Z5 work, but my body was rebelling against the humidity and legs would only do Z4 stuff, so that is what happened. Later today I'll be on the bike inside for a 30' Z2 ride because...surprise!...it is going to storm again. I'm super annoyed. I was going to ride outside and then mow my lawn for the first time in a month. The yard looks like a jungle and the wildlife is taking over (we've added a doe and her fawn to the menagerie lately), but every time it gets dry enough to mow I either have something scheduled or it turns around and rains before I get around to mowing. At least we live in the country where no one is gonna stake our yard and threaten to have the city mow for us (at a huge cost!).


2024-07-16 11:41 AM
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Subject: RE: Beer Drinkers Appreciation Society (BDAS) 2023 Mentor Group - ALWAYS OPEN
Nice work this week everyone!! And it's only Tuesday!

I would not move in with my parents either, including in-laws, though I love them dearly. A week-long visit is plenty

1500m pool swim today, nice jump up from last week's 1000m. Feeling good in the water again. My goggles sprung a leak though, so I was dumping water every 50m. That got annoying really fast, and slowed down my overall time, as I was swimming well in the low 1:50s. Oh well.

edit - my Garmin got very confused while I was swimming, and thinks I somehow burned 6900 calories in the pool, but only 350 on my humid 4 mile run this morning. How the heck would I have burned 6900 calories from 1500m Z1 swimming??? LOL!

Edited by robertChiefsFan 2024-07-16 11:49 AM
2024-07-16 11:53 AM
in reply to: jmhpsu93

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Subject: RE: Beer Drinkers Appreciation Society (BDAS) 2023 Mentor Group - ALWAYS OPEN
Originally posted by jmhpsu93

Originally posted by nicole14e  Mike, come to masters! 

I'll be there on Saturday.  This should be interesting. 

How do the logistics work for the outside...do they bring the little punch card thingys out there, or do I need to go into the lobby first?




Yayyyy! See you then! It starts at 7:30, not 7! I think I told you that already, but reminders are helpful
Yes, they bring the cards out, so you can just go straight to the pool. No towel service out there, so either bring your own or that you would need to go in and grab.
We had a huge group last week! I want to say there are 7 lanes and each lane had 3 people at one point. It was great! I'm going to try to actually be on time this week and do the full 2 hours...but we'll see I'm going to a concert Friday night at Merriweather (Third Eye Blind and Yellowcard...throwbacks!) so might be sleepy...
2024-07-16 12:08 PM
in reply to: Rollergirl

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Subject: RE: Beer Drinkers Appreciation Society (BDAS) 2023 Mentor Group - ALWAYS OPEN
Originally posted by Rollergirl

Originally posted by robertChiefsFan

Originally posted by jmhpsu93

Originally posted by nicole14e
Originally posted by Rollergirl I don't mind hills, as long as they are of the "down" variety.
I almost spit my tea out at this

While I'd usually agree, I'm still a little guarded letting it loose running downhill...something I just need to work through mentally.  Maybe I should try the downhill feature on my treadmill as it goes down to -5%.




I actually find downhills a bit harder on the knees/quads as it feels more impactful on them. Might be my trail running mindset where I'm super cautious going down so I don't wreck something.




They are harder on the knees if you try to brake. If you let go and land under yourself (if you see what I mean) it's a a lot of fun (a little scary, I'll admit)

That said, on trails I am very cautious too, even uphill.




Agree Nat! I love a downhill as long as it's not too steep and I can just let go and let my legs fly. Trying to brake certainly causes lots of other issues (or if it's too steep and/or there are roots in the way)
2024-07-16 2:29 PM
in reply to: nicole14e

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Subject: RE: Beer Drinkers Appreciation Society (BDAS) 2023 Mentor Group - ALWAYS OPEN

Originally posted by nicole14e
Originally posted by Rollergirl
Originally posted by robertChiefsFan
Originally posted by jmhpsu93

Originally posted by nicole14e
Originally posted by Rollergirl I don't mind hills, as long as they are of the "down" variety.
I almost spit my tea out at this

While I'd usually agree, I'm still a little guarded letting it loose running downhill...something I just need to work through mentally.  Maybe I should try the downhill feature on my treadmill as it goes down to -5%.

I actually find downhills a bit harder on the knees/quads as it feels more impactful on them. Might be my trail running mindset where I'm super cautious going down so I don't wreck something.
They are harder on the knees if you try to brake. If you let go and land under yourself (if you see what I mean) it's a a lot of fun (a little scary, I'll admit) That said, on trails I am very cautious too, even uphill.
Agree Nat! I love a downhill as long as it's not too steep and I can just let go and let my legs fly. Trying to brake certainly causes lots of other issues (or if it's too steep and/or there are roots in the way)

Thing is, I used to let it fly...I think pretty much zero running for five or so years has messed up my kinetic chain / running economy and it's going to take some time to get that back.  My injury history messes with my head, too.

We used to do downhill intervals for XC and track to build leg speed - those were nuts!  We also had a short, steep grass descent about 200 yards from the finish on our home XC course - great way to start your finishing kick. 

2024-07-16 2:55 PM
in reply to: jmhpsu93

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Subject: RE: Beer Drinkers Appreciation Society (BDAS) 2023 Mentor Group - ALWAYS OPEN
Question for those who cycle way more than I do - I need to work on hills on the bike. I found a very nice, long hill with various inclines close to where I've been riding. I'm thinking about doing some hill repeats on it once a week, starting tomorrow.

There is a really good spot at the top and bottom to turn around and do said repeats, and it's about a mile long one way (including a half mile flat + half mile climb).

Any recommendations / suggestions / #protips for hill repeats?


2024-07-16 3:41 PM
in reply to: robertChiefsFan

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Subject: RE: Beer Drinkers Appreciation Society (BDAS) 2023 Mentor Group - ALWAYS OPEN

Originally posted by robertChiefsFan Question for those who cycle way more than I do - I need to work on hills on the bike. I found a very nice, long hill with various inclines close to where I've been riding. I'm thinking about doing some hill repeats on it once a week, starting tomorrow. There is a really good spot at the top and bottom to turn around and do said repeats, and it's about a mile long one way (including a half mile flat + half mile climb). Any recommendations / suggestions / #protips for hill repeats?

There are a bunch of different ways to tackle hills - standing climb, seated climb with low cadence, and seated with a higher spin.  I'd recommend practicing all three as they use your delivery systems a little differently.  With a half mile climb, that sounds like 3-4 minutes or so depending on the grade, so it's more on the low end of VO2 max territory if you go really hard on them.

Also a couple of different approaches...are you looking to gain absolute power, or be able to repeat it?  That'll determine your recovery time.  I know you don't have a power meter, and the intervals are too short to really rely on heart rate as it lags too much, so we'll use RPE.

I'd do something like this:

Warm Up a few miles

6 hill repeats alternating standing, seated at 80-ish RPM, seated at 95 RPM - all this at RPE 8-ish (so hard, but not all-out)
Recovery is the coast down hill which will be probably 90-120 seconds or so, you should be close to fully recovered to zone 1 HR, or at least low Z2.  If three minutes standing is too much just finish the last hundred yards or so on a couple of them that way. 

Then do one more all-out and once you get near the top sprint over the hill, which is how you're supposed to crest hills (I mean, not literally sprinting, but pushing over the top). 

If six is too many to start, then maybe 3-4.  Fiddle around with your gearing...50 ring/25 cog is the same as 34/17 (that's a compact road bike crankset - I know you're riding a MTB so you'll have to do the math), but to me it "feels" a little different. 

If you're on a road, be careful at the turnarounds, especially when you're gassed, which you will be. 

2024-07-16 8:39 PM
in reply to: Rollergirl

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Subject: RE: Beer Drinkers Appreciation Society (BDAS) 2023 Mentor Group - ALWAYS OPEN
Originally posted by Rollergirl

Originally posted by bulfrog

  • (…..) If you're going to do it, you have to practice a lot.


  • Well, yeah, just like we practice swimming, biking and running.



    Haha, Yup, we definitely 'should' practice our transitions. But if you watch the bike mount line it's clear that a lot don't but try to get on the bike like a pro anyway.

    Other things I should do include stretching, lifting weights, warming up properly...
    2024-07-16 10:22 PM
    in reply to: drfoodlove

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    Subject: RE: Beer Drinkers Appreciation Society (BDAS) 2023 Mentor Group - ALWAYS OPEN
    Originally posted by drfoodlove

    While I 100% know I am always welcome at my parent's house, I would live in a porta potty before I moved back in of my own volition!! I actually lived with them for about 8 week sat the beginning of 2021 when my dad had a MRSA infection and needed IV antibiotic treatments 8 times a day to help out. I love my parents, but no...just no. (and I even more so when I was 20!!)

    I'm behind, but everyone sounds like they are going gang busters!

    Last week for me:
    4 swims 10,045.10yd 4:19:30
    4 bike: 187.56 mi 11:18:57
    4 runs: 20.52 mi 4:46:59
    2 strength 2:24:xx

    Total 22:49--supposed to be the biggest week of the training plan



    Epic week. Wow.

    How long till race day? If that was your biggest week does this mean you're starting taper madness?
    2024-07-16 10:28 PM
    in reply to: robertChiefsFan

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    Subject: RE: Beer Drinkers Appreciation Society (BDAS) 2023 Mentor Group - ALWAYS OPEN
    Originally posted by robertChiefsFan

    Question for those who cycle way more than I do - I need to work on hills on the bike. I found a very nice, long hill with various inclines close to where I've been riding. I'm thinking about doing some hill repeats on it once a week, starting tomorrow.

    There is a really good spot at the top and bottom to turn around and do said repeats, and it's about a mile long one way (including a half mile flat + half mile climb).

    Any recommendations / suggestions / #protips for hill repeats?


    Mike gave you some good advice for this.

    Personally I prefer spinning up hills, seated, high cadence and low gear. In my mind that doesn't trash my legs as much as smashing my way up. But mixing it up and training all the different ways is a good idea.

    But the main thing is just go ride it. Most of us have lots of low hanging fruit when it comes to training, there's no real secret sauce. Just ride up that hill multiple times and you'll make gains
    2024-07-16 11:49 PM
    in reply to: bulfrog

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    Subject: RE: Beer Drinkers Appreciation Society (BDAS) 2023 Mentor Group - ALWAYS OPEN
    Originally posted by bulfrog

    Originally posted by Rollergirl

    Originally posted by bulfrog

  • (…..) If you're going to do it, you have to practice a lot.


  • Well, yeah, just like we practice swimming, biking and running.



    Haha, Yup, we definitely 'should' practice our transitions. But if you watch the bike mount line it's clear that a lot don't but try to get on the bike like a pro anyway.


    True, this is why I remain the Queen of transitions, let’s keep it this way




    Other things I should do include stretching, lifting weights, warming up properly...


    And buying stuff!


    2024-07-16 11:51 PM
    in reply to: bulfrog

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    Subject: RE: Beer Drinkers Appreciation Society (BDAS) 2023 Mentor Group - ALWAYS OPEN
    Originally posted by bulfrog

    Originally posted by robertChiefsFan

    Question for those who cycle way more than I do - I need to work on hills on the bike. I found a very nice, long hill with various inclines close to where I've been riding. I'm thinking about doing some hill repeats on it once a week, starting tomorrow.

    There is a really good spot at the top and bottom to turn around and do said repeats, and it's about a mile long one way (including a half mile flat + half mile climb).

    Any recommendations / suggestions / #protips for hill repeats?


    Mike gave you some good advice for this.

    Personally I prefer spinning up hills, seated, high cadence and low gear. In my mind that doesn't trash my legs as much as smashing my way up. But mixing it up and training all the different ways is a good idea.

    But the main thing is just go ride it. Most of us have lots of low hanging fruit when it comes to training, there's no real secret sauce. Just ride up that hill multiple times and you'll make gains


    I agree, good advice but I also just ride up the hill and down again. It’s enough for me.
    2024-07-17 4:46 AM
    in reply to: robertChiefsFan

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    Subject: RE: Beer Drinkers Appreciation Society (BDAS) 2023 Mentor Group - ALWAYS OPEN
    Originally posted by robertChiefsFan

    Nice work this week everyone!! And it's only Tuesday!

    I would not move in with my parents either, including in-laws, though I love them dearly. A week-long visit is plenty

    1500m pool swim today, nice jump up from last week's 1000m. Feeling good in the water again. My goggles sprung a leak though, so I was dumping water every 50m. That got annoying really fast, and slowed down my overall time, as I was swimming well in the low 1:50s. Oh well.

    edit - my Garmin got very confused while I was swimming, and thinks I somehow burned 6900 calories in the pool, but only 350 on my humid 4 mile run this morning. How the heck would I have burned 6900 calories from 1500m Z1 swimming??? LOL!


    I hate it when it happens, there is usually no way to fix that I find.

    6900 calories, hello big dinner!!

    2024-07-17 4:56 AM
    in reply to: Rollergirl

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    Subject: RE: Beer Drinkers Appreciation Society (BDAS) 2023 Mentor Group - ALWAYS OPEN
    so race week is upon us-. Luckily, I didn't do this race last year (there wasn't one) so the past Nat to beat is 2022-Nat who was not as good as 2023 Nat. I should get her

    Goal times (2022 time)

    S 340m - 07min22 @2.10/100 (07:52)
    T1 1:00 (01:14)
    B 9.2km: 20:00 (22:19)- taking the old racer instead of the heavy mountain bike
    T2: 1:00 (1:15)
    R 6.5km 35:12 @5:25k/m (37:08)- Reading my RR, I took my time last time and averaged 5:43



    2024-07-17 5:57 AM
    in reply to: Rollergirl

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    Subject: RE: Beer Drinkers Appreciation Society (BDAS) 2023 Mentor Group - ALWAYS OPEN
    Originally posted by Rollergirl

    Originally posted by robertChiefsFan

    Nice work this week everyone!! And it's only Tuesday!

    I would not move in with my parents either, including in-laws, though I love them dearly. A week-long visit is plenty

    1500m pool swim today, nice jump up from last week's 1000m. Feeling good in the water again. My goggles sprung a leak though, so I was dumping water every 50m. That got annoying really fast, and slowed down my overall time, as I was swimming well in the low 1:50s. Oh well.

    edit - my Garmin got very confused while I was swimming, and thinks I somehow burned 6900 calories in the pool, but only 350 on my humid 4 mile run this morning. How the heck would I have burned 6900 calories from 1500m Z1 swimming??? LOL!


    I hate it when it happens, there is usually no way to fix that I find.

    6900 calories, hello big dinner!!




    6900 calories? What's the problem? :D
    2024-07-17 5:58 AM
    in reply to: Rollergirl

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    Subject: RE: Beer Drinkers Appreciation Society (BDAS) 2023 Mentor Group - ALWAYS OPEN
    Originally posted by Rollergirl

    so race week is upon us-. Luckily, I didn't do this race last year (there wasn't one) so the past Nat to beat is 2022-Nat who was not as good as 2023 Nat. I should get her

    Goal times (2022 time)

    S 340m - 07min22 @2.10/100 (07:52)
    T1 1:00 (01:14)
    B 9.2km: 20:00 (22:19)- taking the old racer instead of the heavy mountain bike
    T2: 1:00 (1:15)
    R 6.5km 35:12 @5:25k/m (37:08)- Reading my RR, I took my time last time and averaged 5:43






    You totally have 2022 Nat!!

    Average 5:43 transitions?!?!? For you?!??!?! I mean...I expect that from me...or Mike...but you? :D


    2024-07-17 6:00 AM
    in reply to: bulfrog

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    Subject: RE: Beer Drinkers Appreciation Society (BDAS) 2023 Mentor Group - ALWAYS OPEN
    Originally posted by bulfrog

    Originally posted by drfoodlove

    While I 100% know I am always welcome at my parent's house, I would live in a porta potty before I moved back in of my own volition!! I actually lived with them for about 8 week sat the beginning of 2021 when my dad had a MRSA infection and needed IV antibiotic treatments 8 times a day to help out. I love my parents, but no...just no. (and I even more so when I was 20!!)

    I'm behind, but everyone sounds like they are going gang busters!

    Last week for me:
    4 swims 10,045.10yd 4:19:30
    4 bike: 187.56 mi 11:18:57
    4 runs: 20.52 mi 4:46:59
    2 strength 2:24:xx

    Total 22:49--supposed to be the biggest week of the training plan




    Epic week. Wow.

    How long till race day? If that was your biggest week does this mean you're starting taper madness?


    We are three weeks and change out now. There is one more 20 hour week on the plan, and then a two week taper. A bit weird, but whatevs...
    2024-07-17 6:15 AM
    in reply to: drfoodlove

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    Subject: RE: Beer Drinkers Appreciation Society (BDAS) 2023 Mentor Group - ALWAYS OPEN
    I am taking an unscheduled rest day today. I think I injured the thoracico-lumbar fascia last week and exacerbated it on Monday night when I face planted at the lake. Like other types of fascia injuries (think plantar fasciatis) It hurts intensely when I stand up and take the first couple of steps, but then after I get going, it doesn't hurt as much. It was noticeable on my run yesterday, but not enough to stop me. Yesterday afternoon it would have stopped me, for sure. Anyway, I'm taking the day to act like I'm in my mid-40s and sit with a heating pad on it and hope it will get better quickly. I am glad it has happened on a rest week, but it still makes me nervous.
    2024-07-17 6:27 AM
    in reply to: drfoodlove

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    Subject: RE: Beer Drinkers Appreciation Society (BDAS) 2023 Mentor Group - ALWAYS OPEN
    Originally posted by drfoodlove




    Average 5:43 transitions?!?!? For you?!??!?! I mean...I expect that from me...or Mike...but you? :D


    no, that's the run tempo in minutes per km (9:12/mile)

    transitions 2 minutes total (max)
    2024-07-17 6:27 AM
    in reply to: drfoodlove

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    Subject: RE: Beer Drinkers Appreciation Society (BDAS) 2023 Mentor Group - ALWAYS OPEN
    Originally posted by drfoodlove

    I am taking an unscheduled rest day today. I think I injured the thoracico-lumbar fascia last week and exacerbated it on Monday night when I face planted at the lake. Like other types of fascia injuries (think plantar fasciatis) It hurts intensely when I stand up and take the first couple of steps, but then after I get going, it doesn't hurt as much. It was noticeable on my run yesterday, but not enough to stop me. Yesterday afternoon it would have stopped me, for sure. Anyway, I'm taking the day to act like I'm in my mid-40s and sit with a heating pad on it and hope it will get better quickly. I am glad it has happened on a rest week, but it still makes me nervous.


    ouch! hope it's only a scare
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