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2024-07-17 7:26 AM
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Subject: RE: Beer Drinkers Appreciation Society (BDAS) 2023 Mentor Group - ALWAYS OPEN
Originally posted by Rollergirl

Originally posted by drfoodlove

I am taking an unscheduled rest day today. I think I injured the thoracico-lumbar fascia last week and exacerbated it on Monday night when I face planted at the lake. Like other types of fascia injuries (think plantar fasciatis) It hurts intensely when I stand up and take the first couple of steps, but then after I get going, it doesn't hurt as much. It was noticeable on my run yesterday, but not enough to stop me. Yesterday afternoon it would have stopped me, for sure. Anyway, I'm taking the day to act like I'm in my mid-40s and sit with a heating pad on it and hope it will get better quickly. I am glad it has happened on a rest week, but it still makes me nervous.


ouch! hope it's only a scare


Same!! Hope that heals up quickly for you!


2024-07-17 7:28 AM
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Subject: RE: Beer Drinkers Appreciation Society (BDAS) 2023 Mentor Group - ALWAYS OPEN
Hill repeats are...ok. I got four of them in this morning, and stayed in the low gears, and just focused on cadence. (low for mtn bike = 1/3 and 1/4 combos front/rear, for now). I have a lot of room for improvement on hills, obviously.

Edit - holy smokes that pic is huge. Sorry about that!!!

Edited by robertChiefsFan 2024-07-17 7:31 AM




(hills - Copy.jpg)



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2024-07-17 7:33 AM
in reply to: Rollergirl

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Subject: RE: Beer Drinkers Appreciation Society (BDAS) 2023 Mentor Group - ALWAYS OPEN

Originally posted by Rollergirl
Originally posted by drfoodlove Average 5:43 transitions?!?!? For you?!??!?! I mean...I expect that from me...or Mike...but you? :D
no, that's the run tempo in minutes per km (9:12/mile) transitions 2 minutes total (max)

I joke about having a picnic in transition...Nathalie could spread out her blanket, set out a charcuterie board, open a bottle of Bordeaux, consume said picnic items, and STILL beat 5:43 in transitions. 

2024-07-17 7:36 AM
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Subject: RE: Beer Drinkers Appreciation Society (BDAS) 2023 Mentor Group - ALWAYS OPEN

Originally posted by robertChiefsFan Hill repeats are...ok. I got four of them in this morning, and stayed in the low gears, and just focused on cadence. (low for mtn bike = 1/3 and 1/4 combos front/rear, for now). I have a lot of room for improvement on hills, obviously. Edit - holy smokes that pic is huge. Sorry about that!!!

Nicely done, Robert!  Looks like those are about, what, 130 feet or so of elevation on each hill?  That's a decent hill for sure. 

2024-07-17 7:38 AM
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Subject: RE: Beer Drinkers Appreciation Society (BDAS) 2023 Mentor Group - ALWAYS OPEN

Originally posted by robertChiefsFan
Originally posted by Rollergirl
Originally posted by drfoodlove I am taking an unscheduled rest day today. I think I injured the thoracico-lumbar fascia last week and exacerbated it on Monday night when I face planted at the lake. Like other types of fascia injuries (think plantar fasciatis) It hurts intensely when I stand up and take the first couple of steps, but then after I get going, it doesn't hurt as much. It was noticeable on my run yesterday, but not enough to stop me. Yesterday afternoon it would have stopped me, for sure. Anyway, I'm taking the day to act like I'm in my mid-40s and sit with a heating pad on it and hope it will get better quickly. I am glad it has happened on a rest week, but it still makes me nervous.
ouch! hope it's only a scare
Same!! Hope that heals up quickly for you!

Thoracico-lumbar fascia?  So your back hurts, but more muscular then joint, right?  That's a tough area to stretch, too. 

Yeah, what they said, let's get this all better quickly - with three weeks out your hay is just about in the barn anyway training-wise, rest up a bit until it feels close to 100%.  You don't want that on race day. 



Edited by jmhpsu93 2024-07-17 7:39 AM
2024-07-17 7:41 AM
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Subject: RE: Beer Drinkers Appreciation Society (BDAS) 2023 Mentor Group - ALWAYS OPEN
Originally posted by jmhpsu93

Originally posted by Rollergirl
Originally posted by drfoodlove Average 5:43 transitions?!?!? For you?!??!?! I mean...I expect that from me...or Mike...but you? :D
no, that's the run tempo in minutes per km (9:12/mile) transitions 2 minutes total (max)

I joke about having a picnic in transition...Nathalie could spread out her blanket, set out a charcuterie board, open a bottle of Bordeaux, consume said picnic items, and STILL beat 5:43 in transitions. 




Not quite right................


it would be a bottle of Chateauneuf du Pape, not Bordeaux


2024-07-17 7:52 AM
in reply to: Rollergirl

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Subject: RE: Beer Drinkers Appreciation Society (BDAS) 2023 Mentor Group - ALWAYS OPEN

Originally posted by Rollergirl
Originally posted by jmhpsu93

Originally posted by Rollergirl
Originally posted by drfoodlove Average 5:43 transitions?!?!? For you?!??!?! I mean...I expect that from me...or Mike...but you? :D
no, that's the run tempo in minutes per km (9:12/mile) transitions 2 minutes total (max)

I joke about having a picnic in transition...Nathalie could spread out her blanket, set out a charcuterie board, open a bottle of Bordeaux, consume said picnic items, and STILL beat 5:43 in transitions. 

Not quite right................ it would be a bottle of Chateauneuf du Pape, not Bordeaux

Ahhh...a Rhone Valley Girl.  I prefer them as well...once you get used to drinking new world cab/merlot and their blends, Bordeaux can be like being slapped in the face. 

2024-07-17 7:53 AM
in reply to: jmhpsu93

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Subject: RE: Beer Drinkers Appreciation Society (BDAS) 2023 Mentor Group - ALWAYS OPEN
Originally posted by jmhpsu93

Originally posted by robertChiefsFan Hill repeats are...ok. I got four of them in this morning, and stayed in the low gears, and just focused on cadence. (low for mtn bike = 1/3 and 1/4 combos front/rear, for now). I have a lot of room for improvement on hills, obviously. Edit - holy smokes that pic is huge. Sorry about that!!!

Nicely done, Robert!  Looks like those are about, what, 130 feet or so of elevation on each hill?  That's a decent hill for sure. 




Yeah about that much elevation. I did an out and back on the same hill, riding to a spot at the top (parking lot, conveniently) and then back down to a flat area that also has a parking lot. 4x. I used a run mapping website to map the race course to see how many hills, elevations, etc., then managed to find a hill that was pretty similar to the biggest hill in the race. My hill is about 15 feet taller though. :D
2024-07-17 7:54 AM
in reply to: Rollergirl

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Subject: RE: Beer Drinkers Appreciation Society (BDAS) 2023 Mentor Group - ALWAYS OPEN
Originally posted by Rollergirl

Originally posted by jmhpsu93

Originally posted by Rollergirl
Originally posted by drfoodlove Average 5:43 transitions?!?!? For you?!??!?! I mean...I expect that from me...or Mike...but you? :D
no, that's the run tempo in minutes per km (9:12/mile) transitions 2 minutes total (max)

I joke about having a picnic in transition...Nathalie could spread out her blanket, set out a charcuterie board, open a bottle of Bordeaux, consume said picnic items, and STILL beat 5:43 in transitions. 




Not quite right................


it would be a bottle of Chateauneuf du Pape, not Bordeaux


I do enjoy a good red wine...that sounds amazing!
2024-07-17 8:02 AM
in reply to: nicole14e

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Subject: RE: Beer Drinkers Appreciation Society (BDAS) 2023 Mentor Group - ALWAYS OPEN
Way to go getting back into it, Mike!

I also would not move back in with my parents. Obviously if I needed a place to live, they would be more than pleased to have me home, but I would go insane. I've lived by myself long enough, I don't know that I could live with people again long-term, though my mother and I would get along very well. My dad is pretty needy though, so he would drive me nuts.

Took a rest day yesterday. My body was pretty sore and my elbow was swollen from my allergy shot, so took it easy. It's supposed to storm all evening so I'm going to do some indoor strength stuff after work.
2024-07-17 8:09 AM
in reply to: jmhpsu93

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Subject: RE: Beer Drinkers Appreciation Society (BDAS) 2023 Mentor Group - ALWAYS OPEN
Originally posted by jmhpsu93

Originally posted by Rollergirl
Originally posted by jmhpsu93

Originally posted by Rollergirl
Originally posted by drfoodlove Average 5:43 transitions?!?!? For you?!??!?! I mean...I expect that from me...or Mike...but you? :D
no, that's the run tempo in minutes per km (9:12/mile) transitions 2 minutes total (max)

I joke about having a picnic in transition...Nathalie could spread out her blanket, set out a charcuterie board, open a bottle of Bordeaux, consume said picnic items, and STILL beat 5:43 in transitions. 

Not quite right................ it would be a bottle of Chateauneuf du Pape, not Bordeaux

Ahhh...a Rhone Valley Girl.  I prefer them as well...once you get used to drinking new world cab/merlot and their blends, Bordeaux can be like being slapped in the face. 




I was born in the Rhone Valley, I went directly from breast milk to Chateauneuf du Pape


2024-07-17 9:58 AM
in reply to: Rollergirl

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Subject: RE: Beer Drinkers Appreciation Society (BDAS) 2023 Mentor Group - ALWAYS OPEN
Gretchen, I hope your back is okay! Definitely get some rest, and please stop face planting!

2024-07-17 10:11 AM
in reply to: jmhpsu93

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Subject: RE: Beer Drinkers Appreciation Society (BDAS) 2023 Mentor Group - ALWAYS OPEN
Originally posted by jmhpsu93

Originally posted by Rollergirl
Originally posted by drfoodlove Average 5:43 transitions?!?!? For you?!??!?! I mean...I expect that from me...or Mike...but you? :D
no, that's the run tempo in minutes per km (9:12/mile) transitions 2 minutes total (max)

I joke about having a picnic in transition...Nathalie could spread out her blanket, set out a charcuterie board, open a bottle of Bordeaux, consume said picnic items, and STILL beat 5:43 in transitions. 





My transition mantra has become "no sandwiches." After a particularly long transition at one race my wife asked me if I had made and eaten a sandwich while I was in there. I can take my time when I want to!
2024-07-17 10:14 AM
in reply to: jmhpsu93

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Subject: RE: Beer Drinkers Appreciation Society (BDAS) 2023 Mentor Group - ALWAYS OPEN
Originally posted by jmhpsu93

Originally posted by robertChiefsFan
Originally posted by Rollergirl
Originally posted by drfoodlove I am taking an unscheduled rest day today. I think I injured the thoracico-lumbar fascia last week and exacerbated it on Monday night when I face planted at the lake. Like other types of fascia injuries (think plantar fasciatis) It hurts intensely when I stand up and take the first couple of steps, but then after I get going, it doesn't hurt as much. It was noticeable on my run yesterday, but not enough to stop me. Yesterday afternoon it would have stopped me, for sure. Anyway, I'm taking the day to act like I'm in my mid-40s and sit with a heating pad on it and hope it will get better quickly. I am glad it has happened on a rest week, but it still makes me nervous.
ouch! hope it's only a scare
Same!! Hope that heals up quickly for you!

Thoracico-lumbar fascia?  So your back hurts, but more muscular then joint, right?  That's a tough area to stretch, too. 

Yeah, what they said, let's get this all better quickly - with three weeks out your hay is just about in the barn anyway training-wise, rest up a bit until it feels close to 100%.  You don't want that on race day. 




Def not joint pain. It hurts just above my illiac crest about half way between the vert column and the lateral margin (of my body). Kinda right where pregnant women hold their backs in that stereotypical trope on tv/movies.

I've been sitting with a heating pad all morning and it is helping, so I'm feeling better about it!
2024-07-17 4:20 PM
in reply to: drfoodlove

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Subject: RE: Beer Drinkers Appreciation Society (BDAS) 2023 Mentor Group - ALWAYS OPEN
Originally posted by drfoodlove

Originally posted by jmhpsu93

Originally posted by robertChiefsFan
Originally posted by Rollergirl
Originally posted by drfoodlove I am taking an unscheduled rest day today. I think I injured the thoracico-lumbar fascia last week and exacerbated it on Monday night when I face planted at the lake. Like other types of fascia injuries (think plantar fasciatis) It hurts intensely when I stand up and take the first couple of steps, but then after I get going, it doesn't hurt as much. It was noticeable on my run yesterday, but not enough to stop me. Yesterday afternoon it would have stopped me, for sure. Anyway, I'm taking the day to act like I'm in my mid-40s and sit with a heating pad on it and hope it will get better quickly. I am glad it has happened on a rest week, but it still makes me nervous.
ouch! hope it's only a scare
Same!! Hope that heals up quickly for you!

Thoracico-lumbar fascia?  So your back hurts, but more muscular then joint, right?  That's a tough area to stretch, too. 

Yeah, what they said, let's get this all better quickly - with three weeks out your hay is just about in the barn anyway training-wise, rest up a bit until it feels close to 100%.  You don't want that on race day. 




Def not joint pain. It hurts just above my illiac crest about half way between the vert column and the lateral margin (of my body). Kinda right where pregnant women hold their backs in that stereotypical trope on tv/movies.

I've been sitting with a heating pad all morning and it is helping, so I'm feeling better about it!


Knock on wood it's only a scare.

But Mike's right, 3 weeks out the hay is in the barn. You're not going to gain a significant amount of fitness in 1 final big week, so the most important thing now is to get to the start line healthy. Best advice I think is to put 'the machine' back in her box and err on the side of doing less, not more.

So take it easy, try not to play through the pain, and unless your days rest made a magical improvement get yourself to a physio (if you haven't already)

Best of luck
2024-07-17 4:23 PM
in reply to: drfoodlove

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Subject: RE: Beer Drinkers Appreciation Society (BDAS) 2023 Mentor Group - ALWAYS OPEN
Originally posted by drfoodlove

We are three weeks and change out now. There is one more 20 hour week on the plan, and then a two week taper. A bit weird, but whatevs...


Yup, that's the same schedule as my 70.3 plan last year, and for next years Ironman. But for those ones the final, stand alone big week is the biggest of the plan.


2024-07-18 5:26 AM
in reply to: bulfrog

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Subject: RE: Beer Drinkers Appreciation Society (BDAS) 2023 Mentor Group - ALWAYS OPEN
Originally posted by bulfrog

Knock on wood it's only a scare.

But Mike's right, 3 weeks out the hay is in the barn. You're not going to gain a significant amount of fitness in 1 final big week, so the most important thing now is to get to the start line healthy. Best advice I think is to put 'the machine' back in her box and err on the side of doing less, not more.

So take it easy, try not to play through the pain, and unless your days rest made a magical improvement get yourself to a physio (if you haven't already)

Best of luck


I don't think Gretchen is capable of doing "less". I struggle myself so I can imagine what it's like for someone who trains 20+ hours/week!

Struggling with a nagging pain in my achilles which comes and goes. Scared that it will get worse but I find it difficult not to run as planned. I need to swim and bike more instead.

2024-07-18 6:10 AM
in reply to: bulfrog

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Subject: RE: Beer Drinkers Appreciation Society (BDAS) 2023 Mentor Group - ALWAYS OPEN
Originally posted by bulfrog

Originally posted by drfoodlove

We are three weeks and change out now. There is one more 20 hour week on the plan, and then a two week taper. A bit weird, but whatevs...


Yup, that's the same schedule as my 70.3 plan last year, and for next years Ironman. But for those ones the final, stand alone big week is the biggest of the plan.


I think it would be equal to the last week of my last 3 week training block if I hadn't added weight lifting to the training block (and not the stand alone week, yet).
2024-07-18 6:15 AM
in reply to: Rollergirl

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Subject: RE: Beer Drinkers Appreciation Society (BDAS) 2023 Mentor Group - ALWAYS OPEN
Originally posted by Rollergirl

Originally posted by bulfrog

Knock on wood it's only a scare.

But Mike's right, 3 weeks out the hay is in the barn. You're not going to gain a significant amount of fitness in 1 final big week, so the most important thing now is to get to the start line healthy. Best advice I think is to put 'the machine' back in her box and err on the side of doing less, not more.

So take it easy, try not to play through the pain, and unless your days rest made a magical improvement get yourself to a physio (if you haven't already)

Best of luck


I don't think Gretchen is capable of doing "less". I struggle myself so I can imagine what it's like for someone who trains 20+ hours/week!

Struggling with a nagging pain in my achilles which comes and goes. Scared that it will get worse but I find it difficult not to run as planned. I need to swim and bike more instead.




I'm capable of doing less...much, much less!! My problem is that I tend to be all or nothing in my mindset, so when it gets to less, it gets to nothing pretty quickly! Then I get stuck, because I can't do the level of all I was doing before. Just need to keep moving...like a shark. Yeah...like a shark...not a crazy person with no moderation!

Speaking of moving...I actually can today!! My back isn't 100%, but I can at least stand up and take steps without excruciating pain, so that is a vast improvement over the last couple of days. I felt every one of my 45 years yesterday (and probably of few of my wife's years, just for good measure!) as I sat with a heating pad on my back all day. I'm taking another recovery day today. Was thinking maybe to swim this morning, but I said I wouldn't do anything until I could stand up pain free, and I'm not there yet. Fingers crossed I stay on this trajectory.
2024-07-18 7:12 AM
in reply to: drfoodlove

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Subject: RE: Beer Drinkers Appreciation Society (BDAS) 2023 Mentor Group - ALWAYS OPEN
Originally posted by drfoodlove

Originally posted by Rollergirl

Originally posted by bulfrog

Knock on wood it's only a scare.

But Mike's right, 3 weeks out the hay is in the barn. You're not going to gain a significant amount of fitness in 1 final big week, so the most important thing now is to get to the start line healthy. Best advice I think is to put 'the machine' back in her box and err on the side of doing less, not more.

So take it easy, try not to play through the pain, and unless your days rest made a magical improvement get yourself to a physio (if you haven't already)

Best of luck


I don't think Gretchen is capable of doing "less". I struggle myself so I can imagine what it's like for someone who trains 20+ hours/week!

Struggling with a nagging pain in my achilles which comes and goes. Scared that it will get worse but I find it difficult not to run as planned. I need to swim and bike more instead.




I'm capable of doing less...much, much less!! My problem is that I tend to be all or nothing in my mindset, so when it gets to less, it gets to nothing pretty quickly! Then I get stuck, because I can't do the level of all I was doing before. Just need to keep moving...like a shark. Yeah...like a shark...not a crazy person with no moderation!

Speaking of moving...I actually can today!! My back isn't 100%, but I can at least stand up and take steps without excruciating pain, so that is a vast improvement over the last couple of days. I felt every one of my 45 years yesterday (and probably of few of my wife's years, just for good measure!) as I sat with a heating pad on my back all day. I'm taking another recovery day today. Was thinking maybe to swim this morning, but I said I wouldn't do anything until I could stand up pain free, and I'm not there yet. Fingers crossed I stay on this trajectory.


Glad to hear that the pain is improving! There's wisdom in giving your body time to heal up and not HTFU through it.
2024-07-18 7:13 AM
in reply to: robertChiefsFan

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Subject: RE: Beer Drinkers Appreciation Society (BDAS) 2023 Mentor Group - ALWAYS OPEN
Easy 5 mile recovery run today. Upper Z1 / Lower Z2, which was a first for me this training season. The weather was great (65 and low humidity, slight breeze, clear skies). Days like today are a gift in the middle of summer and I am quite thankful for it! 1500m swim coming up at lunch.


2024-07-18 8:57 AM
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Subject: RE: Beer Drinkers Appreciation Society (BDAS) 2023 Mentor Group - ALWAYS OPEN

Good morning, all.  4 miles on the treadmill this morning, main set a 10' tempo run (held about 8:24 pace or so, and it felt really good, HR stayed low Z4).  Then legs day, kind of abbreviated so I didn't get my core work in...also didn't get my short swim in - maybe across the street at lunchtime but my schedule today is a wreck.  Out of three cars in the household, only one is operational as one is in the shop getting a gagillion dollars of work done and other has its keys locked in it.  Both will be remedied today buy I'm involved to a degree so I gotta move a bunch of stuff around.  Anyway...

@Gretchen:  smart move taking another day and I'll probably jump on the trainer as your first foray back vs. swimming, glad it's progressing

@Robert:  it's supposed to cool off here a little as well, SO looking forward to an outdoor run in the 70s vs. the high 80s and into the 90s

@Nathalie:  keep an eye on those feet - I had bout of that like ten years ago and it just nagged me; there are some exercises and self-therapy you can do for it (I had to stick my feet in ice water LOL, not recommending that yet)

@Andrew (and I guess Gretchen, too):  that's interesting to me about the peak weeks being T-5 and T-3 from race week, sandwiched around a recovery week; I think it puts too much pressure on the athlete to hit those marks and risk or push through injury because of their perceived importance; when I actually properly executed a plan my peak weeks are like that for an Oly and maybe a sprint, but if I were to go longer I'd try to peak volume 6-8 weeks out; I dunno, I'm not a coach

2024-07-18 9:45 AM
in reply to: jmhpsu93

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Subject: RE: Beer Drinkers Appreciation Society (BDAS) 2023 Mentor Group - ALWAYS OPEN
Originally posted by jmhpsu93

@Andrew (and I guess Gretchen, too):  that's interesting to me about the peak weeks being T-5 and T-3 from race week, sandwiched around a recovery week; I think it puts too much pressure on the athlete to hit those marks and risk or push through injury because of their perceived importance; when I actually properly executed a plan my peak weeks are like that for an Oly and maybe a sprint, but if I were to go longer I'd try to peak volume 6-8 weeks out; I dunno, I'm not a coach




I'm not a coach either, but I would say that having peak week 6-8 weeks out from a race would 1.) mess with my head a bunch and 2.) make the plan excruciatingly long if you wanted to slowly ramp up to peak. My current plan is 23 weeks, and to add another 5-7 to that would just seem interminable. I guess the alternative to extending the plan would be to start at what would have been week 6/8 on the plan, but that also seems like jumping in the deep end. I'm happy with this plan, just find it odd that it ends with a big week sandwiched between two recovery weeks. It is almost like they counted wrong and were like...meh...we'll just duplicate that last week to fix it!
2024-07-18 1:14 PM
in reply to: drfoodlove

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Subject: RE: Beer Drinkers Appreciation Society (BDAS) 2023 Mentor Group - ALWAYS OPEN
1000m in the pool. Goggles bit the dust at 500m, fogging up terribly, so I took them off to clean them. Big mistake as they leaked terribly the rest of the swim. I quit at 1000m because I was done with that garbage. New pair arriving this weekend.
2024-07-18 4:21 PM
in reply to: drfoodlove

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Subject: RE: Beer Drinkers Appreciation Society (BDAS) 2023 Mentor Group - ALWAYS OPEN
Originally posted by drfoodlove

Originally posted by jmhpsu93

@Andrew (and I guess Gretchen, too):  that's interesting to me about the peak weeks being T-5 and T-3 from race week, sandwiched around a recovery week; I think it puts too much pressure on the athlete to hit those marks and risk or push through injury because of their perceived importance; when I actually properly executed a plan my peak weeks are like that for an Oly and maybe a sprint, but if I were to go longer I'd try to peak volume 6-8 weeks out; I dunno, I'm not a coach




I'm not a coach either, but I would say that having peak week 6-8 weeks out from a race would 1.) mess with my head a bunch and 2.) make the plan excruciatingly long if you wanted to slowly ramp up to peak. My current plan is 23 weeks, and to add another 5-7 to that would just seem interminable. I guess the alternative to extending the plan would be to start at what would have been week 6/8 on the plan, but that also seems like jumping in the deep end. I'm happy with this plan, just find it odd that it ends with a big week sandwiched between two recovery weeks. It is almost like they counted wrong and were like...meh...we'll just duplicate that last week to fix it!


Hmmm, for me 6-8 weeks out seems to far away for peak training load. But I wonder if it's a long distance vs short distance thing. Like for the Ironman plans we need to keep upping the training volume and hit those long bike/runs, it's all about that base. But for your sprint/olympic as it gets closer to the race it's more important to be doing higher intensity stuff, so a bit less overall volume. Different distances have different goals in the race specificity stage of training.

I do think that athletes putting too much pressure on themselves to complete every workout is a real concern though, for all self coached athletes following a plan. I think someone telling you to do a bit less when you're fatigued/injured would be one of the big benefits of a coach.
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