swbkrun mentor group 6 years running closed (Page 13)

no doubt about it, there's a big benefit .  the proof is in the pudding.... look at the progress i've made over the past few years.

also, i get why you asked the question, because all of us train to some "scientific" program in one form or another.  suzy probably following the strictest regime. maybe me on the other end up until 10 weeks ago and even still, i've been slacking lately because of the move.  but i suspect that once you leave our community the majority of people just run for some random amount of time with nothing "scientific" behind it and make some sort of improvement.  (i'm throwing in things like hal higdon, bt beginner programs, fink and so on all the way through an elite coach into the "scientific" program.  i think all provide great value if used properly.)

and don't forget other benefits not necessarily linked to physical improvement.  take, for example when you have a rough day.  a 30 minute whatever pace run smooths things out a bit. 

I'm totally unscientific about my training. Almost all of my runs are at whatever pace feels right that day. For me, it takes the pressure off and makes running more enjoyable, which makes me want to run more. That's the benefit. I love the days when my legs feel extra springy and I can run fast just for the fun of it. And you never know when one of those days is going to come along!

That is great!  And WILDFLOWER.... That is a bucket list race for me.  I don't think i have ever heard 1 bad thing about that race (except that it can hurt !)

no doubt about it, there's a big benefit .  the proof is in the pudding.... look at the progress i've made over the past few years.

also, i get why you asked the question, because all of us train to some "scientific" program in one form or another.  suzy probably following the strictest regime. maybe me on the other end up until 10 weeks ago and even still, i've been slacking lately because of the move.  but i suspect that once you leave our community the majority of people just run for some random amount of time with nothing "scientific" behind it and make some sort of improvement.  (i'm throwing in things like hal higdon, bt beginner programs, fink and so on all the way through an elite coach into the "scientific" program.  i think all provide great value if used properly.)

and don't forget other benefits not necessarily linked to physical improvement.  take, for example when you have a rough day.  a 30 minute whatever pace run smooths things out a bit. 

Warning: Totally my opinion based on what i've read and experienced as a coached athlete. I am sure there is some benefit to doing random runs with fartleks/sprints just because you want to, but I think there is less benefit than if you ran a perscribed run.  You want to improve LT efficiently, you need to run at a certain level and duration to do it.  Same for VO2 improvement.  If you don't care how you get that improvement or how long it takes to get it no biggie. Life's too short not to enjoy it which you and Julia have embraced and done well with.  Me, I'm old, I want it now!

I am not sure I am the strictest with both Kim and Doug having coaches, but I do follow the plan to the T or have a darn good reason not to.  I can say under Brett's guidance I have remained injury free for over a year while improving my run, bike and even swim times considerably. I believe it is because he knows way more than me and tailors workouts to my shortcomings.   I don't do one second more than what's in the plan though. Before I became so planned focused I had a tendency to add volume which didn't result in much of any improvement and set me up for injury.

I agree with both sides.  I am a follow the plan guy but I HATE the numbers.  It takes all the fun out of it for me.  I only follow pace on Tempo runs and have given up on HR.  RPE plans are the only ones I can follow.  I really enjoy running when I am running on feel, not so much when it is about hitting paces.  I love the runs you are describing. They are even better when you are not wearing a watch!

The other side is that it is usually the next workout that will suffer the most.  You can derail a plan by not running slow OR fast enough.  I see the risk.... but SCREW the risk.  If legs say go then go  

Oh, 80 miles today on the bike.  Longest since 09.

I agree with both sides.  I am a follow the plan guy but I HATE the numbers.  It takes all the fun out of it for me.  I only follow pace on Tempo runs and have given up on HR.  RPE plans are the only ones I can follow.  I really enjoy running when I am running on feel, not so much when it is about hitting paces.  I love the runs you are describing. They are even better when you are not wearing a watch!

The other side is that it is usually the next workout that will suffer the most.  You can derail a plan by not running slow OR fast enough.  I see the risk.... but SCREW the risk.  If legs say go then go  

Oh, 80 miles today on the bike.  Longest since 09.

DRUNK!

Oh, 80 miles today on the bike.  Longest since 09.

Yeah!   WF long course was my first, back in 2009.  It's an amazing experience, you'll love AND hate it. 

Glad you saw my plane Weds!  Signed papers to purchase a condo in Huntington Beach.  Spent more time at SNA than in town, though!

Solid swimming... you are clearly on your way!

Same here for Wildflower long course!  that, and Alcatraz.

I have heard this same thing from many others as well.  Congrats on the condo, there are some great deal in HB right now.  I lived there for about 8 years in the 90's.  Are you moving there or just buying a second home?

Thanks for the feedback, folks!! I sort-of bat both ways (no surprise there, right, Fatty?). I loves me a training plan and I follow one like Suzy, to a T (and, sometimes, to a fault). But IMs in back-to-back years made me yearn for no structure -- I was so sick of turning down invites from friends for rides or runs, and then hearing them talk about it later, because I was a slave to the plan. I've done much more running with friends (hi Steve!) this fall and have loved it! 

So I guess Suzy got to the meat of my question -- yes, there is improvement benefit, but "scientifically" it's not the most efficient way to get there. I sort-of split the difference -- I've done some run tests, look at recent race results, have ideas of paces based on the VDOT calculators, and try to do a run that incorporates tempo or something once/week, schedule and body willing. But if Steve wants to crush hills on Cougar and I wanted to do a tempo run, I'll take Cougar hills in a heartbeat!! 

So Justin, this is gonna sound so pathetic, but I thrive on the darn graphs and peach-colored boxes in those training logs. I really do. When I'm finishing up a swim, I try to think of how much purple I just added. When one week surpasses another I feel all smug. At the same time, if I see a dip week I justify it by reminding myself that my aging bod needs rest, and my family comes first so if a workout didn't happen, that's cool. So while they motivate me, I try not to be a slave to them. I do find the psychology of my feeling about those graphs fascinating and borderline pathetic. LOL!!!

Glad to see Fatty is drinking Real Beer. Can't say the same for another member of the MG...

Thanks for the feedback, folks!! I sort-of bat both ways (no surprise there, right, Fatty?). I loves me a training plan and I follow one like Suzy, to a T (and, sometimes, to a fault). But IMs in back-to-back years made me yearn for no structure -- I was so sick of turning down invites from friends for rides or runs, and then hearing them talk about it later, because I was a slave to the plan. I've done much more running with friends (hi Steve!) this fall and have loved it! 

So I guess Suzy got to the meat of my question -- yes, there is improvement benefit, but "scientifically" it's not the most efficient way to get there. I sort-of split the difference -- I've done some run tests, look at recent race results, have ideas of paces based on the VDOT calculators, and try to do a run that incorporates tempo or something once/week, schedule and body willing. But if Steve wants to crush hills on Cougar and I wanted to do a tempo run, I'll take Cougar hills in a heartbeat!! 

So Justin, this is gonna sound so pathetic, but I thrive on the darn graphs and peach-colored boxes in those training logs. I really do. When I'm finishing up a swim, I try to think of how much purple I just added. When one week surpasses another I feel all smug. At the same time, if I see a dip week I justify it by reminding myself that my aging bod needs rest, and my family comes first so if a workout didn't happen, that's cool. So while they motivate me, I try not to be a slave to them. I do find the psychology of my feeling about those graphs fascinating and borderline pathetic. LOL!!!

Glad to see Fatty is drinking Real Beer. Can't say the same for another member of the MG...