Asphalt Junkies CLOSED AND GETTING OUR FIX (Page 14)

Alright.  Since somebody suggested I write about slow running here are some thoughts.  It's super long!  You don't need to read it.

Why we should run slow and run lots?

I will start with a question.  Is a marathon an aerobic event?  Is a 1 mile race an aerobic event?  Is a 400 meter race an aerobic event?

The answer to all 3 is YES.

The 400 meter race is the longest 'sprint' in track and field.  It certainly is highly anaerobic, but is also aerobic.  There is no human that can run the 400 meter solely anaerobically.  (cool thought experiment.  Imagine athlete 'A' who trains by ONLY sprinting for 10 seconds at a time.  Imagine athlete 'B' who trains by running Z2 miles...2 hrs a day.  Who will win a 400M sprint?  I THINK, if they were identical in all other ways, that it might be athlete 'B').

Some people might not even think of the 1 mile (or 1600meters) as being aerobic.  The term may conjure up visions of marathons rather than a single mile.  And to be sure, no matter how far the race the athlete will spend a few seconds anaerobic at the end as they push for that final bit of speed at the end.

The point is that as a triathlete, your run prowess depends 99.9% on your aerobic fitness.

That fact established, I will try to draw an analogy that I think might be a good one.  If you were trying to get your best, darkest summer suntan so that you can look like a Greek god (Dirk!!) then what would be the best way to go about this?

Option 1) go out to the beach without sunscreen once per week for 8 hours
Option 2) go out to the beach each day, perhaps at 10am for 1 hour

(please set aside the wisdom that tanning is bad and should NEVER be done, this is just an analogy).

You will obviously pick option 2.  Would option 1 work?  Well, it could but it wouldn't work as well.  Even if you avoided sun poisoning or 2nd degree burns you would peel and lose much of the value.  In our analogy that would be like running too hard and getting injured...causing a setback.

Option 2 is more likely to result in a certain level of tanning being reached sooner because you wouldn't peel it all off because the stressful damage done by UV radiation is being more gently spread across the week in a way the body can more easily deal with (heal from).
But the adaptation still happens.

Running is unique among our triathlon events in that it's inherently destructive.  I'm referring to the impact of landing with each step.  Now that's not to say that running is bad for you in every way.  I have heard that the incidence of osteo arthritis in the lower extremeties of long-term runners is less or at least no more than in sedentary people.
Without rare foolishness, all running injuries (overuse types) will heal fully with rest and treatment so while they are an annoyance there shouldn't be any ongoing health concern with them when they happen. So 'destructive' only means hurtful in the little sense!

So far I've made these 2 points:
1) your aerobic energy system is all that really matters
2) spreading out a given stress to the body makes that stress less destructive

From these 2 things you can see forming a prescription for running slowly (aerobically) and running frequently.  But aerobic refers to all running paces below your lactate threshold, yet the word 'slowly' does not. 

Why run slower?  Wouldn't it make more sense to do all running at the LT pace so force the LT pace to increase?  Yes and no.  This running is also destructive, far more so than slower running. Doing only this type of running will either lead to a physical injury, or result in overtraining (the body can't recover from the workout day after day).

So what's this overtraining?  100 miles per week?  50 miles per week?  It depends.  What you can handle increases over time with training and varies by age and personal genetics.  But the important concept here is the idea of training load.  The concept is that you have a certain training load you can tolerate over a given period of time and that this load needs to be measured in some units other than time or distance.  In truth, the load should be called "Dirk Units".  If my body can tolerate 100 Dirk Units of training trauma each week the equation will look like this:

Distance x Intensity = Dirk Units.

1 mile x 10 = 10 Dirk Units.
10 miles x 1 = 10 Dirk Units.

(the intensity number is 1-10 and represents the relative effort level).

These units don't represent how much value your body gets from the training, but rather how much damage is done requiring your body to recover from.  See how you need to manage the Dirk Units below a certain threshold?

If you can tolerate 100 Dirk Units in a week, on one end of the spectrum you could do 10 miles at your highest effort (that might be all 400m repeats for instance).

Or you could do 100 miles at a very easy low Z2 effort (all 10 minute miles for Dirk).

In theory the body will barely tolerate each of these 2 approaches, but which one forces the body to adapt aerobically in the greatest way?  The first has him working about 50 minutes in a week and it's half aerobic, half anaerobic.
The second has him working 18 hours all aerobic.

The second one forces his body to make much, much, much more aerobic adaptation. 

Which approach would get him his best 5k race time after a few months?  Definitely the second approach.

If you are currently running 8 miles per week of very hard running, I'm not suggesting you replace it with 8 miles per week of very slow running.  You can now spend more time running since you are going slow.  20 miles per week might be good (but may not be done week 1...be gradual).

But how can all of this slow running make you faster at a race pace that's so much faster?  Won't my LT pace be the same pace it was before if I don't push it up through LT paced training?  No it won't.  To understand why you need to understand 2 things about LT.  LT can be measured 2 ways.  The scientific, laboratory method is to measure the amount of oxygen your body is processing at the time you finally reach the threshold for lactate accumulation.  That would be measured in an amount of oxygen per minute.  THAT value can go up through hard, focused training at and above threshold.  It's not something that should NEVER be trained, but it's not something for a novice or even mid-level runner to train much.  I leave it for the expert/advanced runner to worry about that.  The reason is that you can get more bang for the 'buck' training something else.
The second way you can measure LT is a much more practical, real-world way.  What running pace can you achieve at LT?  This is dependent on how efficient you can be while running.  This is both mechanical efficiency and cellular efficiency.  When you run a lot of slow miles you are making your heart more efficent, your lungs more efficient, your leg muscle cells more efficient and your running gait more efficient.  Your cardio vascular system may only be able to do the same amount of work in terms of oxygen consumption before reaching LT, but that amount of work now powers you to greater speeds. 
If running 10:00 miles improves your muscle efficiency 20%, those same muscles are still 20% more efficient at 8:00 miles. 

So by one measure of LT you won't be improving it with slow runs.  But by the other measure of LT (the more realistic one) you WILL be improving your LT.  You can see this in action by looking at all of the posts on the forum asking why my LT hasn't improved with training?  They are using HR as a correlation to LT and not seeing their HR higher at LT!  When asked they always say, "Yes, I'm going 2mph faster now, but my heart rate is the same!".   Yep!  you got more efficient...and faster!

Well, on this particular ride, I never shifted out of the big ring.  I was riding my tri bike and on the aero bars for almost the whole ride.  I only stood a few times for no more than 30 seconds.  I did not include the hill from hell.  It was pretty much a rolly polly course.

I do most of my climbing seated unless it is a horrible hill.

Yes, I would like to increase my power.  I don't have a power meter.  I'll just keep riding my hills.

mambos - 2012-04-11 3:50 PM Jeff: I think I have your theory down and have set a goal with a reward system, from now on every 50 Dirk units=bowl of ice cream, and if I reach 100 Dirk units I'm going for the cookie dough ice cream !!

I will have to modify the equations!!!

10m x 5i = 50du

50du = Breyers!

JeffY - 2012-04-11 4:08 PM

mambos - 2012-04-11 3:50 PM Jeff: I think I have your theory down and have set a goal with a reward system, from now on every 50 Dirk units=bowl of ice cream, and if I reach 100 Dirk units I'm going for the cookie dough ice cream !!

I will have to modify the equations!!!

 

10m x 5i = 50du

50du = Breyers!

 

BTW, I used "Dirk Units" because 100 "Dirk Units" is the amount of load that Dirk can handle in a single day!

The rest of us can only handle that much in a week...

Today I rode 30+ miles in my first group ride. It is awesome! Lots of nuanses go into riding in a pack. Plus it makes you really push harder. We worked some intervals in (6x3:00) w/ 1:00 rests. These guys were hardcore. They attack the climbs too. I even got to lead a few times.

As for bike seats. As said earlier, it depends on the bike and your position. I ride on a Selle Italia Gel. The most comfortable seat I've tried. I would like to try the Adamo though.

Everyone keep up the GREAT work!

JeffY - 2012-04-11 5:08 PM

mambos - 2012-04-11 3:50 PM Jeff: I think I have your theory down and have set a goal with a reward system, from now on every 50 Dirk units=bowl of ice cream, and if I reach 100 Dirk units I'm going for the cookie dough ice cream !!

I will have to modify the equations!!!

 

10m x 5i = 50du

50du = Breyers!

50du = 1Bu (Breyers Unit)

2Bu = 1 CDBu (Cookie Dough Breyers Unit)

Dude that's an incredibly valuable workout.  It's the biking equivalent of going to Master's Swim practice!  Keep doing that as often as you can.  Remember to never ride aerobars if you are behind someone.  Always ride a predictable straight line (look back before swerving).  Point out road hazards before you arrive at them.  Don't slam on your brakes when someone's behind you.  Don't overlap wheels when beside people....

Distilled to this: don't kill or be killed!

Thanks Bro.

It looks like I will be joining them at least 1-2x per week. As far as aero bars, I just have a road bike and don't yet have aero bars. I have been eyeing some shorties though. The first thing they instructed me on were those same rules. Once I was about 10 miles in they felt confident on my skills and let me ride their tails.

Next week they plan on riding the mountain passes of the century race I plan on doing. This will be brutal. They said if I keep up the hard work I should have no problem getting below 6 hours on the ride. My goal is 5:30:00 at least.

 Also, since I had to cancel my tri in July I decided to add a 5k or maybe 2 of them in July. I have never done a 5k and would like anyones advice on race strategy. I am not just racing to finish. I want to give it my best.

Run like the dogs of hell are chasing you. Stop just after the finish line. That is all.

:-)

Edit to add: You should probably take my advice with a grain of salt - I haven't run an open 5k since college. Said strategy netted me a decent time though.

I ran 2 miles today.  My legs feel like $hit.  I had an easy bike yesterday and a swim.  I drank lots of water and ate well the last three days.  I have slept over 7 hrs a night as well.  

Sometimes it's gonna suck.  Stick with it.  If it sucks, forget about it and move on.

The weather this week has been cold so I havent been able to bike to work so I am stuck in the gym.

Put in 60 minutes on the recumbent exercise bike, it seemed to use slightly different muscles which was interesting. I then did 30min on the standard exercise bike to finish off the 50km ride. I did a short 5min run on the treadmill in socks to see how it felt. I still consider myself heavy on my feet but I do believe that my stride is improving to a more of a forefoot strike.

My bike is a road bike/touring bike, although I just entered that contest in the banner ad above to win a tri bike, so I'm pretty sure I've got it locked up...ok maybe not.  In case it matters, it's a Cannondale T700 that I bought new in about 1997.

If it would help to have pics of me on the bike, I can do that tomorrow, since right now I'm the only one awake in the house.  Even the dogs are snoring.

Jeff, not to complicate the slow run discussion too much, on Wednesdays, I have been doing a 3 mile run, keeping a faster pace than the 10 minute miles that I normally run.  Last week was 27:30, this week was 26:49.  The rest of the time I stay pretty much dead-on 10 minutes, except if I'm feeling sluggish and I'll go slower but still put in the time.  Is there any reason that I shouldn't do this Wednesday faster run?  

Thanks, David

JeffY - 2012-04-11 5:13 PM

JeffY - 2012-04-11 4:08 PM

mambos - 2012-04-11 3:50 PM Jeff: I think I have your theory down and have set a goal with a reward system, from now on every 50 Dirk units=bowl of ice cream, and if I reach 100 Dirk units I'm going for the cookie dough ice cream !!

I will have to modify the equations!!!

 

10m x 5i = 50du

50du = Breyers!

 

BTW, I used "Dirk Units" because 100 "Dirk Units" is the amount of load that Dirk can handle in a single day!

The rest of us can only handle that much in a week...

 

Wow Jeff I thought you were an engineer not a comedian.  Well you're either a comedian or the ridiculous amounts of training you do have your brain deprived of oxygen. 

I enjoyed the slow running post despite the mockery of this slow, fat, balding, old man.

BTW, no training for me at all yesterday.  My nephew came up again last night to complete his pre-enlistment physical before jumping into the National Guard for firefighting school.   They have all kinds of testing he has to go through despite just getting out of the Marine Corps.  Ultimately he's planning on going regular Air Force for firefighting somewhere down the road.

I'll play catch up on my training (kind of) tonight with a brick.  20-25 mile ride followed by a 7 mile run.  Of course the run will be easy to line up with Jeff's running advice.  And since my daily units will be so high I''l have to reward myself with some of Matt's suggested reward program benefits.

Paul that sounds like some really great speed you have developed.  Congrats!  6:53 mile is a huge milestone IMHO.

GREAT posts every one.  Thanks for all the running advice.  Excellent Jeff...matter of fact I'm sending the post to my wife...she is training for an 8hr endurance run.

I posted yesterday and no-one replied but I want to do an Olympic in September if i can learn to swim the distance by then.  I chose the 20 week plan w/ swim being the focus, swim 3X bike 2X run 2X.  After reading the run post I think I need to do that but increase the run to 5X per week, just shorter runs after work...maybe 30 minutes or should I change the plan to 20 week at 3X for everything.

So I'm tossing around the idea of racing a sprint a little earlier than I originally planned - maybe. There is a race not too far from me on April 22nd. I have participated in this race for the last 3 years but I did'nt think I would be ready this year and they usually fill up really fast. I just checked and they are not full (40 spots open!!) so now I'm thinking about it. April 17th is the deadline to decide - I'm watching the weather until then . I'm wishy washy because I don't really love the course - pool swim, short looped bike course and the roads are not great, really nice trail run though which I do like. The real kicker is it only costs 35 bucks!

Bagging my swim today - not feeling up to it. I'll try to make it up tomorrow or Saturday.

We're surviving the week with my husband gone o.k. so far. I've stayed on top of my workouts thanks to my bike trainer, treadmill, a little planning and determination.

Good discussions yesterday!

I think that's absolutely doable Karl.  What is your current swimming experience and what are you currently doing for training as far as the swim goes?  I think switching to running 5x a week is smart.  I will check out your logs for running, but if you are curently running 2x a week, shorten those distances when you go to 5x a week.  For example, I started out in October with 2 miles a day and worked my way up from there.  There's no way I could have done anything longer than 4 miles without some sort of issue.  Just be smart about it and listen to how your legs react.